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carrying a firearm in a Hospital

Pat Gardner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
69
Location
Plummer Id
I was wanting to know if a person can carry a holstered firearm in a Hospital like deaconess in Spokane?. I know of a person who has been visiting their mom while carrying a concealed weapon. I thought it was a no no to do that.
 

BobR

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
391
Location
West Plains, ,
The hospitals in Spokane are all posted as to prohibit firearms. Legally, there is no prohibition to carrying in a hospital. If they catch him they could ask him to leave and that is about it. The only hospitals in Spokane that does have the law on its side to prohibit firearms is the VA and Eastern State.

bob
 
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rapgood

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
598
Location
Stanwood, WA
The hospitals in Spokane are all posted as to prohibit firearms. Legally, there is no prohibition to carrying in a hospital. If they catch him they could ask him to leave and that is about it. The only hospitals in Spokane that does have the law on its side to prohibit firearms is the VA and Eastern State.

bob

Any hospital that posts a prohibition on firearms has the law on its side.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
........ Legally, there is no prohibition to carrying in a hospital. .......... The only hospitals in Spokane that does have the law on its side to prohibit firearms is the VA and Eastern State. bob

I had an appointment at the seattle VA and did not wear my pistol. I also did not bother to take off the empty holster. After about three hours, I got a hearing exam. Upon leaving the room I and the doctor, were surrounded by a swat team of four (full tacticool) and two uniforms. Someone had seen it and complained. I was searched and had my knife confiscated. The knife was a keychain style with a ONE inch blade. They let me go.


I got my little knife in the mail about six months later.
 

BobR

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
391
Location
West Plains, ,
Any hospital that posts a prohibition on firearms has the law on its side.

I must have phrased that wrong, what law is on their side? I understand the trespassing laws could be used but are there any firearms laws that could be used? Or maybe I am totally out to lunch here.

bob
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
I must have phrased that wrong, what law is on their side? I understand the trespassing laws could be used but are there any firearms laws that could be used? Or maybe I am totally out to lunch here.

bob

Per Washington state law, the only "hospital" that is off limits regarding firearms are in patient mental health facilities. Period. VAs and such are regulated by federal law. The only thing that a regular medical hospital can do is ask you to leave even if they have gun buster signs. So yes, the only laws that has an effect are trespassing laws. After my incident with St. Clair hospital in 2012, I don't bother to inform anyone that I may or may not be carrying in a hospital. It's none of their business that I am doing a lawful activity.
 
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Lante

Regular Member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
122
Location
Kingston, Washington, USA
Carry at Hospitals.

Hospitals have a large patient population of people who are impaired by drugs, mental conditions, pain, and an assortment of other issues.

Hospitals have a number of people who at any given time are at risk for suicide or homicide - that is the reason they are there; they are not on a mental ward...they are waiting for a bed in our overcrowded mental health system....or they have mental health issues on top of physical ailments.

Hospitals at any given time have a number of "prisoner" patients from various jails etc. - and BTW some jails do not place a guard with their prisoner...it is an honor system.... Others are deemed too incapacitated to be a threat and don't have an officer. Others are accompanied by one or two officers either armed or unarmed.

Hospitals have a overwhelmingly high staff population who view guns as things that hurt people - and a hospital as a place to make people better. Guns seem (to them) to be incompatible with their mission. BE AWARE MOST OF THE STAFF WILL SERIOUSLY FREAK IF THEY SEE YOUR GUN, HEAR ABOUT YOUR GUN ETC. This will DEFINITELY effect patient care, of both your loved one and everyone else on that floor, due to the added stress and security precautions which will be imposed (at the insistence medical staff who will want secret service style protection before going near your loved one). (they do have a point - the number of visitors who get seriously stressed and "drop hints" to medical staff about how the Dr's welfare is tied to the recovery of their loved one is truly amazing)

So knowing all this is it wise to carry in a hospital? Your decision. The hospitals say NOT ON THEIR PROPERTY. That is their decision. Just remember, DEEP concealment is needed in a place where you will likely be for some time, being observed, and likely taking off jackets etc. Also where you may be subject to a voluntary screening from a metal detector based on the actions of another visitor to that room or care area. Consider other (non gun) options to handle the personal protection issue. If your gun is not 100% concealed your decision WILL effect many people negatively.

We on this forum talk about rights and laws, can they trespass you etc. We point out that a good guy with a gun is needed to counter the bad guy with a gun. How does staff know who is who? All they see is both of you violating policies - so to them you are both bad guys.

What happens when exercising your right, in violation of a property owner / operators wishes, actually causes a reaction that actually hurts other people by disrupting care? What is the moral decision?
 

OC Freedom

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
646
Location
ADA County, ID
Per Washington state law, the only "hospital" that is off limits regarding firearms are in patient mental health facilities. Period. VAs and such are regulated by federal law. The only thing that a regular medical hospital can do is ask you to leave even if they have gun buster signs. So yes, the only laws that has an effect are trespassing laws. After my incident with St. Clair hospital in 2012, I don't bother to inform anyone that I may or may not be carrying in a hospital. It's none of their business that I am doing a lawful activity.

Agreed 100%. Violence can happen anytime, anywhere, so I choose to always be armed and if I cannot be armed I don't go there. I do not fly anymore, I don't go to government bldgs that are off limits, and I stay away from schools, etc. I always ignore gun busters signs that have no force of law and if I am ask to leave then I leave, it's real simple.
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
I must have phrased that wrong, what law is on their side? I understand the trespassing laws could be used but are there any firearms laws that could be used? Or maybe I am totally out to lunch here.

bob

Aren't the trespassing laws enough. You have a gun, they say leave, you get mouthy, they call police, you argue, you are "trespassed" and possibly arrested if you haven't gotten the message by now.
 

Right Wing Wacko

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
645
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
Per Washington state law, the only "hospital" that is off limits regarding firearms are in patient mental health facilities. Period. VAs and such are regulated by federal law. The only thing that a regular medical hospital can do is ask you to leave even if they have gun buster signs. So yes, the only laws that has an effect are trespassing laws. After my incident with St. Clair hospital in 2012, I don't bother to inform anyone that I may or may not be carrying in a hospital. It's none of their business that I am doing a lawful activity.

Add VA hospitals to that list. Not per Washington Law, but Federal Law.
 

mikeyb

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
554
Location
Bothell
The only "no-guns" sign I have seen in the handful of my hospital visits recently was at Group Health in Bellevue. Didn't see anything at Evergreen, Harborview, Northwest, or Overlake.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
An excellent question that leads to another many at OCDO-WA are uncomfortable being asked: Is it ethical to violate the rules of a private property owner?

I say no.

Considering the fact that every single hospital in my area prohibits possession of firearms, is it ethical to require that one disarm themselves in order to receive services that one cannot receive anyplace else?

1 critical, suspect dead in shooting at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston (happened today)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/20/1-shot-suspect-in-custody-at-boston-hospital/

Hospital gunman intended to kill others: official (July 25, 2014)

http://nypost.com/2014/07/25/hospital-gunman-intended-to-kill-others-official/

Deadly gunman at Reno hospital was looking for physicians and left suicide note: cops (December 19, 2013)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...n-physicians-left-note-cops-article-1.1553468

Gunman Takes Hostages at Tomball Hospital in Houston (Jan 10, 2015)

http://www.kcentv.com/story/27819495/gunman-takes-hostages-at-tomball-hospital-in-houston

Since there is NO law in Washington state that prohibits firearms in "normal" hospitals, I see no reason why a law abiding citizen should abide by a "rule" that prohibits a lawful activity that may protect one's life. Since the hospital has already done something unethical, how is it unethical for somebody to do something in violation of something that was unethical first?

If we were discussing a services that one had alternatives to receiving at other locations that did not restrict those that follow the law and have no ill intent then that would be one thing. But when you can ONLY receive medical services from hospitals or doctor's offices that prohibit firearms then we are talking about a totally different issue.
 
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deanf

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
1,789
Location
N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
is it ethical to require that one disarm themselves in order to receive services that one cannot receive anyplace else?

Mine's not to question the ethics of the administrative rules of a private property owner. Mine's to question the ethics of my own decisions, other's decisions notwithstanding.

If you were to make a decision flowchart it might start with the question: Is what I'm about to do unethical? (Note that unethical decisions of others are not a consideration.) If the answer is YES, do not proceed. End of flowchart.
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
I had an appointment at the seattle VA and did not wear my pistol. I also did not bother to take off the empty holster. After about three hours, I got a hearing exam. Upon leaving the room I and the doctor, were surrounded by a swat team of four (full tacticool) and two uniforms. Someone had seen it and complained. I was searched and had my knife confiscated. The knife was a keychain style with a ONE inch blade. They let me go.


I got my little knife in the mail about six months later.

I hope you did not consent to the search and had your assault and robbery on video
 

CitizenJohn

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
77
Location
Clark County, WA
I worked in a Washington hospital for a few years as a youth advocate and routinely visited all of the departments except surgery. I agree with “Lante” comments concerning the practicality of carrying a firearm in that environment. I would definitely not OC as a Code Silver would be called (see below) and in this day and age I would bet good money that they would immediately call the cops. The result would most likely be (IMO) that you would get trespassed. So, if you were there for treatment, it would get further delayed (if at all) and if you were there to visit someone, you wouldn’t get to. Sounds counterproductive unless getting trespassed was the object in the first place and I think that a hospital is a poor choice for that type of exercise. Believe me, hospitals are full of patients with very poor cognitive reasoning abilities.

As far as CC is concerned, the “Lante” comments about being highly scrutinized all the time is very true. The staff is pretty adept at detecting “bulges under clothing” and people using “protective” gestures or “adjusting” undergarment articles. The staff isn’t necessarily paranoid about a firearm per se. Concealed contraband articles such as booze or outside food is common.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excerpt from “Standardizing Emergency Code Calls, Washington State [Hospitals]” (wsha.org):

Emergency Code Silver

Purpose

To call a response team to assist staff in managing and/or de-escalating a potentially threatening situation and gain the cooperation of a person with a weapon or who has taken hostage(s) within the facility or its grounds. Nonadjacent properties should call 911.

Reason Silver Was Selected for Weapon or Hostage Situation

Silver is the color of a gun which makes it easy for staff to remember for person with weapon or hostage situation. It was also selected in order to be consistent with the all of the other states that have standardized emergency code calls.

Supporting Information

It is important to note that anyone can engage in hostile or violent behavior: patients, patients’ family members, staff, staff family members, or acquaintances of employees and patients. When staff are concerned about their own safety or the safety of others and suspects that someone is brandishing a weapon, they are to call a CODE SILVER. Patients, visitors or staff are at risk of being confronted by a person with a weapon or of being involved in a hostage situation. If such a situation arises, staff members should not attempt to intervene or negotiate.

The definition of a weapon is any firearm, knife, or instrument than can cause bodily harm or injury.

This type of code will generally not be announced overhead but a response team will be notified. When Code Silver is activated, a response from internal security and potentially external law enforcement will be called.

Other buildings of the medical center which are not part of the hospital itself will dial 911 for response.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although the staff might (and I stress might) be trained as to what constitutes “brandishing” a weapon, I would bet that an OC or CC encounter would trigger a Code Silver anyway. Same result.
 
Last edited:

Dave_pro2a

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
, ,
Hospitals have a large patient population of people who are impaired by drugs, mental conditions, pain, and an assortment of other issues.

Hospitals have a number of people who at any given time are at risk for suicide or homicide - that is the reason they are there; they are not on a mental ward...they are waiting for a bed in our overcrowded mental health system....or they have mental health issues on top of physical ailments.

Hospitals at any given time have a number of "prisoner" patients from various jails etc. - and BTW some jails do not place a guard with their prisoner...it is an honor system.... Others are deemed too incapacitated to be a threat and don't have an officer. Others are accompanied by one or two officers either armed or unarmed.

Hospitals have a overwhelmingly high staff population who view guns as things that hurt people - and a hospital as a place to make people better. Guns seem (to them) to be incompatible with their mission. BE AWARE MOST OF THE STAFF WILL SERIOUSLY FREAK IF THEY SEE YOUR GUN, HEAR ABOUT YOUR GUN ETC. This will DEFINITELY effect patient care, of both your loved one and everyone else on that floor, due to the added stress and security precautions which will be imposed (at the insistence medical staff who will want secret service style protection before going near your loved one). (they do have a point - the number of visitors who get seriously stressed and "drop hints" to medical staff about how the Dr's welfare is tied to the recovery of their loved one is truly amazing)

So knowing all this is it wise to carry in a hospital? Your decision. The hospitals say NOT ON THEIR PROPERTY. That is their decision. Just remember, DEEP concealment is needed in a place where you will likely be for some time, being observed, and likely taking off jackets etc. Also where you may be subject to a voluntary screening from a metal detector based on the actions of another visitor to that room or care area. Consider other (non gun) options to handle the personal protection issue. If your gun is not 100% concealed your decision WILL effect many people negatively.

We on this forum talk about rights and laws, can they trespass you etc. We point out that a good guy with a gun is needed to counter the bad guy with a gun. How does staff know who is who? All they see is both of you violating policies - so to them you are both bad guys.

What happens when exercising your right, in violation of a property owner / operators wishes, actually causes a reaction that actually hurts other people by disrupting care? What is the moral decision?

Wow, you could have just said:

"Hospitals are full of reactionary, emotionally driven, irrational, self-righteous bigots that believe they know what's good for you, better than you do."

It would have caused fewer people to stop reading half way through.
 
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