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Thread: I 594 and the evil "nail gun", a letter from the BATF

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I 594 and the evil "nail gun", a letter from the BATF

    http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fil...ing_braces.pdf

    See ATF Ruling 95-3. Further, ATF has advised that even use of an unregulated flare and flare launcher as a weapon results in the making of a NFA weapon. Similarly, ATF has advised that, although otherwise unregulated, the use of certain nail guns as weapons may result in classification as an “any other weapon.”

    No..... ( insert whiny voice here)the batf will never consider a "nail gun" as a weapon.
    What now legislature? It seems as though the evil "nail gun" has caught the attention of the bat boys.

    Is the pistol at my side a pistol if I do not use it as such? How does a nail gun "become" a weapon? It either is or is not.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 01-18-2015 at 12:04 PM. Reason: the usyooal, spelig
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fil...ing_braces.pdf

    See ATF Ruling 95-3. Further, ATF has advised that even use of an unregulated flare and flare launcher as a weapon results in the making of a NFA weapon. Similarly, ATF has advised that, although otherwise unregulated, the use of certain nail guns as weapons may result in classification as an “any other weapon.”

    No..... ( insert whiny voice here)the batf will never consider a "nail gun" as a weapon.
    What now legislature? It seems as though the evil "nail gun" has caught the attention of the bat boys.

    Is the pistol at my side a pistol if I do not use it as such? How does a nail gun "become" a weapon? It either is or is not.
    We all need to contact our reps in congress and demand the BATF be de-funded. Along with EPA, Dept of Ed, etc, etc, etc......

    These guys are out of control!
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Oh man....

    If I may twist an old saying....

    What a tangled web they weave
    When rights they do aggrieve
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Here's a question I've been rolling around in my head for a while... if a SBR is a NFA weapon, what about Long barrel handgun? Is there a requirement to regulate handguns with barrels that are 16-18" long or longer?

    From the 1989 Batman film. Jack Nicholson as the Joker pulled this revolver out of his pants.
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    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Not in Federal law but some states have laws so Witten that to be a handgun they must have a barrel of under certain length.
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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Here's a question I've been rolling around in my head for a while... if a SBR is a NFA weapon, what about Long barrel handgun? Is there a requirement to regulate handguns with barrels that are 16-18" long or longer?

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    Czech this out.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...out-nfa-stamp/
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    The brace thread may be found here.......
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ng-brace-issue

    Several of the clueless poked the bear with a lot of already answered questions and we ended up with this. If you get them to start thinking, they chip a bit more off the Liberty Bell.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Annoyingly, the word they're going to focus on (for defending this position) is that the "use" of a nail gun as a weapon will result in a reclassification. Meaning that it is fine if used for construction, but if somebody uses a nail gun to go all "Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon" on somebody, then it's now an ATF problem.

    Similar to the arm brace letter earlier this month - using it as "designed" won't incur problems. But using it in another way redesigns it (not in my opinion, but that's the thinking) as something else.

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    OK but how can a nail gun or flare gun be an AOW if you can not buy a tax stamp for it?
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 01-18-2015 at 10:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    OK but how can a nail gun or flare gun be an AOW if you can not buy a tax stamp for it?
    The "alphabet boy's" will be glad to charge one for that crime!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    OK but how can a nail gun or flare gun be an AOW if you can not buy a tax stamp for it?
    You can't buy a tax stamp for a non-NFA machine gun (registered) either. So what. They're saying you'll be prosecuted on the basis of how you employ these devices, period.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    You can buy a stamp..if you want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    OK but how can a nail gun or flare gun be an AOW if you can not buy a tax stamp for it?
    At the risk of sounding condescending, there really is a way if you REALLY wanted to. I suppose you could tweak a nailgun to get the desired results if you spend enough time on it.

    http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fil...14_edition.pdf

    ATF rule 75-7
    The Bureau has long held that such weapons when actually converted to fire other than the gas or pyrotechnic cartridges originally designed for use there with are “firearms” under Chapter 44 and the National Firearms Act, depending upon
    the individual characteristics of the weapon. See Revenue Ruling 56-29, supra, and Revenue Ruling 56-597,
    C.B. 1956-2, 931 (Internal Revenue).

    These determinations with respect to the converted weapon were not altered by the amended definitions of the term
    “firearm” now found in 18 U.S.C. 921(a) (3) and the term “any other weapon” in 26 U.S.C. 5845(e). Accordingly, any
    such weapon which is capable of being concealed on the person which has originally been designed or converted to
    discharge a shot through the energy of an explosive will remain subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act
    as an “any other weapon” (26 U.S.C. 5845(e)).

    Should you decide you want to fire a real 12gauge shot shell from your Orion flare gun.


    § 479.82 Rate of tax.

    The transfer tax imposed with respect to firearms transferred within the United States is at the rate of $200 for each
    firearm transferred, except that the transfertax on any firearm classified as “any other weapon” shall be at the rate of $5 for
    each such firearm transferred. The tax imposed on the transfer of the firearm shall be paid by the transferor.

    Make sure you send the appropriate fee with This Form.

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  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    OK but how can a nail gun or flare gun be an AOW if you can not buy a tax stamp for it?
    Its how the Federal government outlawed marijuana.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Several of the clueless poked the bear with a lot of already answered questions and we ended up with this. If you get them to start thinking, they chip a bit more off the Liberty Bell.
    Seems to be a ask for forgiveness instead of permission position to me. Big gamble when dealing with the ATF.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    so if you commit a crime with a nail gun, then you'll get extra federal charges for using a non registered SBR ? lol...

  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    so if you commit a crime with a nail gun, then you'll get extra federal charges for using a non registered SBR ? lol...
    LOL....yep that about sums it up.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    you'll be prosecuted on the basis of how you employ these devices, period.
    ABSOLUTELY!! Also the "feelings" of the batf guy the day the see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    so if you commit a crime with a nail gun, then you'll get extra federal charges for using a non registered SBR ? lol...
    What about a "negligent discharge" resulting in severe injury or death? What about the clown that shoots a place up with a nail gun to the extent of felony damage? Or even misd damage if they press charges?
    Boys and Girls we have a cornucopia of unwritten law, uninterpreted law, and a whole bunch of just dumma$$ law. Be careful out there.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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