Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 37

Thread: Opinions please on a legal issue(traffic)

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277

    Opinions please on a legal issue(traffic)

    Charged with driving without a license.... I haven't had one in twenty years... Never any violations....

    My defense will never win on the local level....( Traveling is a right, not a privilege), no local court will support my argument nor will any lawyer make said argument on my behalf.... So no problem, I will go it Pro Se....

    To date, I have had two adjournments, the prosecutor is not forthcoming with my discovery request. Now the caveat, this is a small township in NJ,

    The prosecutor is now the sitting Judge,,,, Should I file a motion to have the judge recused from the case? Or do I simply inform the court of my concern for getting a fair and impartial trial( on the record) with the ex prosecutor now judge, then use that argument on my appeal?

    While my defense is somewhat weak, having the original prosecutor that was not so happy with my discovery request now sitting as the judge gives me no shot.

    Thoughts and opinions are much appreciated..

    TIA

    Regards

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  2. #2
    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Coeur D Alene, Idaho
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Charged with driving without a license.... I haven't had one in twenty years... Never any violations....

    My defense will never win on the local level....( Traveling is a right, not a privilege), no local court will support my argument nor will any lawyer make said argument on my behalf.... So no problem, I will go it Pro Se....

    To date, I have had two adjournments, the prosecutor is not forthcoming with my discovery request. Now the caveat, this is a small township in NJ,

    The prosecutor is now the sitting Judge,,,, Should I file a motion to have the judge recused from the case? Or do I simply inform the court of my concern for getting a fair and impartial trial( on the record) with the ex prosecutor now judge, then use that argument on my appeal?

    While my defense is somewhat weak, having the original prosecutor that was not so happy with my discovery request now sitting as the judge gives me no shot.

    Thoughts and opinions are much appreciated..

    TIA

    Regards

    CCJ
    It would not be a good idea to enter the BAR. Way too complicated to explain here. A paper battle, "motions" via certified mail etc, works best.

    A drivers license was originally intended for commercial drivers only. It is all a revenue generating scam.

    If you are not prepared and understand how the system works, I would get a traffic attorney and have him or her work out a deal with the court.

    An attorney is an officer of the court and they will work within the system only. They are part of the system. Not really on your side.

    Caveat Emptor.
    Last edited by SovereigntyOrDeath; 01-19-2015 at 10:34 PM.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    What's the penalty for no DL? just a fine?

  4. #4
    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Coeur D Alene, Idaho
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    What's the penalty for no DL? just a fine?

    A person convicted of driving without a license in New Jersey may be fined and incarcerated. If convicted, a person will be subject to the following penalty:

    A fine of up to $500; or
    Imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 60 days

    If the person never had a license in New Jersey or any other jurisdiction, the person will be subject to the following penalty if convicted:

    A fine of not less than $200; and
    The court will issue an order that prohibits the person from receiving a license for a period of not less than 180 days

    Looks like possible jail time. Ouch!
    Last edited by SovereigntyOrDeath; 01-19-2015 at 11:27 PM.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,597
    Say you're a Dreamer - they'll give you spending money, a clothing allowance, in-state tuition - if not free, and they'll get some trustees to come and cut your grass or shovel snow.
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    My personal advice to you is to hire a legal expert qualified to give you legal advice on a legal issue i.e. a lawyer.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Sparks, NV, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    471
    You're looking to make a constitutional case out of this. I expect you'll be losing your first appearance no matter what, forcing you to appeal to the higher courts. Lower courts are less likely to differ from previous opinions and long standing traditions. Yes, travel is a right. Travel by a car, however, is upheld a privilege subject to licensing that can be revoked for a number of reasons. Lower courts will abide by the laws as written, higher courts may be inclined to hear your argument and either uphold, dismiss individually, or actually consider a law change based on constitutionality.

    My opinion, since you asked for opinions, is I don't expect #3 to happen for you, #2 is doubtful. Good luck though, it'll be a helluva ride.
    Last edited by jfrey123; 01-20-2015 at 12:37 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,153
    Quote Originally Posted by jfrey123 View Post
    [ ... ] Travel by a car, however, is upheld a privilege subject to licensing that can be revoked for a number of reasons. [ ... ] Good luck though, it'll be a helluva ride.
    Well said. And said many times but ...
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by jfrey123 View Post
    ...Yes, travel is a right. Travel by a car, however, is upheld a privilege subject to licensing...
    To clarify, travel by car is still in the right, but OPERATING the motor vehicle is what requires the license. Anyone is allowed to own a car and hire a licensed driver.

    I'm on the fence as to whether this is right or wrong.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  10. #10
    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Coeur D Alene, Idaho
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    To clarify, travel by car is still in the right, but OPERATING the motor vehicle is what requires the license. Anyone is allowed to own a car and hire a licensed driver.

    I'm on the fence as to whether this is right or wrong.
    Words of Art are what makes the whole system seem correct. One must break through the vail of these words. One must know who they truly are. One must educate themselves and learn how to do battle in the paper arena. Do not enter the BAR. Do not enter and submit to their jurisdiction.

    Start with Common Law.

    Learn how to stay within Common Law.

    Use Common Law to defeat the paper tiger.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    To clarify, travel by car is still in the right, but OPERATING the motor vehicle is what requires the license. Anyone is allowed to own a car and hire a licensed driver.

    I'm on the fence as to whether this is right or wrong.
    That's an argument that they may make (they'll likely not even make it, assuming courts to rubber-stamp their authority).

    But I'm on the side of the fence for good. That no DL can be required to operate a MV for traveling purposes. We have the right to assemble...combine this with our right to travel = no DL required.

    No plates, insurance etc too

  12. #12
    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Coeur D Alene, Idaho
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    That's an argument that they may make (they'll likely not even make it, assuming courts to rubber-stamp their authority).

    But I'm on the side of the fence for good. That no DL can be required to operate a MV for traveling purposes. We have the right to assemble...combine this with our right to travel = no DL required.

    No plates, insurance etc too
    Agreed, and if they admit it or enough folks find the remedy in the Common Law, their revenue scheme goes out the window.

    They will fight this tooth and nail.

    This is why they will dismiss cases that are properly fought. They will hold folks over in court until the end of day that know what they are doing, and dismiss when everyone has gone on their merry way. The cases will remain in the dark. Not brought to "trial" so there is no legal precedent to fight future theft.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,727
    You will never win on the right to travel, period.

    I have never lost a traffic case I chose to fight. A couple I paid because I had no time to fight. That is the cost of doing business in Ohio.

    I win the case because the court or the cop did not play by the rules. Not on the merits of the case.

    Most states cannot jail a pro-se. But NJ rules are what is important.

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,727
    Prejudice Caused by Delay

    A significant delay may cause prejudice to a defendant. Prejudice can be shown by a loss of evidence, witnesses and memory. The death of a key witness or the inability of witnesses to recall evidence is enough to show prejudice after a long delay.

    Demand for Speedy Trial

    A defendant can lose his claim of being denied a speedy trial. Generally, a defendant shouldn't accept long pretrial delays and should assert his speedy trial right early in a criminal proceeding. A defendant can't silently allow a delay and later claim his right to a speedy trial was denied.

    File a motion to dismiss due to prejudice. assert your speedy trial rights.

    Ohio is one of the few states that have fixed speedy trial times. Go one day passed, case dismissed. NJ says your rights were violated if we say your rights were violated.

  15. #15
    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Coeur D Alene, Idaho
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    File a motion to dismiss due to prejudice. assert your speedy trial rights.
    An excellent counterstrike strategy, being that they struck first with the color of law traffic stop/citation.

    disclaimer: I am not an attorney. Do your homework, or hire a traffic ticket attorney to maneuver in the mine field for you.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,464
    CCJ

    You are absolutely correct that traveling is a right and that right includes traveling with your personal property. Its also true that this is a proven losing argument even at the appelant level. Like 'color of law' states, you don't argue the merrits.

    If you want to win your case you need to learn the rules and laws relevant to your case. There's a better forum than this to bring these questions...

    Join the Yahoo Group called Law-discuss. The owner is an attorney. Be prepared to do some homework.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 01-21-2015 at 07:40 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over the Rainbow
    Posts
    972
    Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI

    The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI

    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

    http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277
    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    Great thread Motofixxer, I was an actual contributor to it.

    Currently my dilemma is that the prosecutor who gave me a hard time with discovery request is now the Judge.... Therefore my query, Should I file a motion to have the judge recuse? Doesn't seem like I can expect a fair and impartial trial with the ex prosecutor now residing over the case....

    I filed a 44 page brief with the EX Judge citing many of the cases in your old thread, however I never received a reply from that judge....

    So my plan is

    1- file a motion to have the judge recused, also file a MTD for lack of subject matter jurisdiction.

    Should the judge refuse either of my motions, then I will simply use the appeals court....

    I don't intend to pay these rat bastards a penny in fines and or fee's....

    My .02

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  19. #19
    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Coeur D Alene, Idaho
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Great thread Motofixxer, I was an actual contributor to it.

    Currently my dilemma is that the prosecutor who gave me a hard time with discovery request is now the Judge.... Therefore my query, Should I file a motion to have the judge recuse? Doesn't seem like I can expect a fair and impartial trial with the ex prosecutor now residing over the case....

    I filed a 44 page brief with the EX Judge citing many of the cases in your old thread, however I never received a reply from that judge....

    So my plan is

    1- file a motion to have the judge recused, also file a MTD for lack of subject matter jurisdiction.

    Should the judge refuse either of my motions, then I will simply use the appeals court....

    I don't intend to pay these rat bastards a penny in fines and or fee's....

    My .02

    CCJ
    Tried & True:

    http://ticketslayer.com/
    Last edited by SovereigntyOrDeath; 01-22-2015 at 03:20 AM.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    In my state there is a law in the Connecticut Practice Book, Sec. 36-11, pictured here...

    I use this law all the time, before I enter any plea...to make them replace the ticket with an information.

    99% of time, the case goes away as they don't want to spend an hour writing an information to replace the ticket.

    Most states have this - replacing a ticket with either a proper complaint or information.

    With the current OP's case it looks beyond this point in time...I think he already pled.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,464
    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    At one time it may have been ok to get the judge and procecutor to laugh... not so much these days. Use this crap in court and you'll be peged an idiot, and you'll lose.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,464
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Great thread Motofixxer, I was an actual contributor to it.

    Currently my dilemma is that the prosecutor who gave me a hard time with discovery request is now the Judge.... Therefore my query, Should I file a motion to have the judge recuse? Doesn't seem like I can expect a fair and impartial trial with the ex prosecutor now residing over the case....

    I filed a 44 page brief with the EX Judge citing many of the cases in your old thread, however I never received a reply from that judge....

    So my plan is

    1- file a motion to have the judge recused, also file a MTD for lack of subject matter jurisdiction.

    Should the judge refuse either of my motions, then I will simply use the appeals court....

    I don't intend to pay these rat bastards a penny in fines and or fee's....

    My .02

    CCJ
    CCJ,

    What's your basis for lack of jurisdiction over the subject matter?

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,464
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    In my state there is a law in the Connecticut Practice Book, Sec. 36-11, pictured here...

    I use this law all the time, before I enter any plea...to make them replace the ticket with an information.

    99% of time, the case goes away as they don't want to spend an hour writing an information to replace the ticket.

    Most states have this - replacing a ticket with either a proper complaint or information.

    With the current OP's case it looks beyond this point in time...I think he already pled.
    Excellent David! That's right. Each state protects a citizen's right to due process. A ticket issued by an agent of the executive branch fails as proper process. This can remedied by proper service by the clerk of court and this can be expensive. Some jurisdictions will just drop it. Some won't.

    You're on a roll today dude! Correct again about the op not able to challenge proper process. That must be done first. Any other action assumes the defendant waives process.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277
    David and Georg

    Are you both stating that I surrendered my rights via due process simply by answering the summons and requesting discovery? Did I actually give the local kangaroo court jurisdiction over me, simply by responding to their summons?


    Their lack of subject matter jurisdiction is simply that a Municipal court cannot have standing to rule on a Constitutional issue raised as a Defense by a Defendant....

    Thank you folks for responding and your opinions.

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  25. #25
    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Coeur D Alene, Idaho
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    At one time it may have been ok to get the judge and procecutor to laugh... not so much these days. Use this crap in court and you'll be peged an idiot, and you'll lose.
    One thing that worked for me was showing up and saying "I am here on that matter" when they called my "name" " I am appearing specially and not generally" I said, and I refused to plea. I said " I do not understand the "charges", and who is the injured party?" " Who here has a claim against me?" The magistrate entered a plea for me and it was dismissed later. I signed all the paperwork with ALL RIGHTS EXPLICITLY RESERVED above my signature, including the ticket.

    Please explain how that worked? Thanks.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •