Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 96

Thread: Krysta Sutterfield alleges excessive force when she was retrieving her gun. MJS

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,161

    Krysta Sutterfield alleges excessive force when she was retrieving her gun. MJS

    FUQ

    "Her federal lawsuit set for trial Tuesday stems from an encounter with police in July 2011. Four months earlier, Milwaukee police had forced their way into Sutterfield's home without a search warrant, arrested her and taken her for an emergency mental evaluation, hours after her therapist reported Sutterfield made a suicidal comment during a session. Police also seized her gun and ammunition.

    A federal appeals court approved of the officers' actions, but Sutterfield now is challenging how police treated her when she went to get the seized gun and ammunition back, armed with a court order. Sutterfield went to the police property office to retrieve her weapon. An officer gave her the gun, but she refused to sign a release and objected to a policy that she must return another day for her ammunition. That led to a struggle with two officers, who ultimately took the gun from Sutterfield but then gave it back after she agreed to sign the release."

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/g...289164401.html
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    popple butte
    Posts
    349
    Looking forward to seeing the video mentioned in the article. Might be quite entertaining.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    They gave her the gun and THEN wanted paperwork completed? That's a laugh.

    The they wanted a "do-over"...and took the gun back.

    Sounds like that they had no good cause to steal the gun the 2nd time.

    Any link the the actual complaint? I don't have a pacer acct.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,161
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    [ ... ] I don't have a pacer acct.
    I don't believe Wisconsin is PACER. Just gotta find the venue and name of the complaint.

    Nope. "The CM/ECF Policies and Procedures for the Eastern District of Wisconsin were updated as of September 13,2010." Now includes PACER
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-20-2015 at 03:26 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  5. #5
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Captioned video of the attack in the property room lobby:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC2DWx5TwQE

    The officer didn't object, didn't say anything, when I took the pistol apart to check for damage. I was standing there handling the pistol in the lobby of the property room, strong side toward him, with a magazine in the holster, and he had nothing to say about it.
    When he testilied today, he said he did think it was unusual that I was so thorough (and quick). Apparently most people just rack the slide, look into the chamber, and pull the trigger, call it "undamaged".

    He objected after I picked up the case (with unloaded pistol inside... which he knew was unloaded because he'd checked it, he'd seen me check it & take it apart), questioned why they weren't following the court order & returning all my property, then stood there calling his supervisor to deal with the problem. Telling him I was calling the supervisor, telling him to calm down (he was armed & getting agitated & loud), not moving toward the door... had no effect.

    I didn't refuse to sign the paperwork, only wanted to have all my property back (which the court had ordered), and was delaying signing until the problem got sorted out.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 01-20-2015 at 11:16 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Our case was simple, clear, straightforward, fit the facts, fit the video, didn't require any stretch of the imagination, and was argued very well by John Monroe. I was testifying for about 2 hours this morning.

    When it came to the defense, it got pretty deep in the courtroom today, and I didn't wear hip boots.
    The city attorney's closing argument was a compilation of some of the most far-fetched, fanciful, and even completely unrelated issues (he brought in open carry & said that the officers thought I was going to go on a shooting spree - not in those words)... and the jury bought their argument. (Despite some of the defense witness testimony completely contradicting their other stories.)

    Their list of reasons they thought added up to a reason to attack me & steal my pistol in a case included:
    - I didn't sit on the bench while I was waiting, only moved off to the side & back from the window. (Murphy's Law says that as soon as I sat down, they'd come back to the window.)
    - I stood in one place & waited, didn't fidget. (Well, they saw me do much the same thing in court today, while standing watching the video again & again & again as the city attorney asked questions.)
    - I didn't look behind me when people came in the door. (I'm in a police station with a "no guns allowed" sign on the door. What do I have to worry about?)
    - I had a holster.
    - I disassembled my pistol to check for damage when it was given to me.
    - I objected to their "safety" policy (not releasing firearms & ammo on the same day) by pointing out that it was ineffective & silly when applied to me, since I already had ammo.*
    - I didn't give in to his demands to put the case on the counter while I was calling his supervisor.
    - I somehow made the first clerk so uncomfortable that she did something she'd only done a couple times in her 25 year career there, asking an officer to take over the whole return process. (One of the other times was when a person who came in to get property told her he was recording their interaction. She was already on 2 cameras. What's one more?)


    * Somehow they thought that I'd said it was in the car, and that made me a threat inside their building with an unloaded pistol in a case.
    Then one of them said he didn't know if maybe I had some in a pocket... only at the time the armed clerk/officer became agitated & attacked me, I'd been standing in front of him with the case in one hand and my cell phone in the other.
    Explain, please, how that's a threat when I've got my hands full? How could I get a magazine out, load it, get the pistol out, load it, and start shooting (esp. before they'd be able to close their door or shoot me)?

    Oh, and BTW, they return loose ammo in a sealed heavy plastic bag. Not exactly easy to access quickly.

    BTW 2: They also had a policy that someone could bring a friend along (who also had to have a background check) and they'd give one person the firearm & the other person the ammo, at the same time, same visit. They never told me about this option, just like they didn't tell me ahead of time about the policy of not returning firearms & ammo at the same time.

    BTW 3: The current policy is to return firearms & ammo to the same person at the same time.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 01-21-2015 at 09:20 AM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    One other detail which shows their attitude...
    There was no incident report filed.
    They think this attack & theft is normal, acceptable, nothing to notify the chain of command about.
    One officer even said that he only writes incident reports when he's planning to pursue charges against someone!
    Last edited by MKEgal; 01-21-2015 at 09:22 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    popple butte
    Posts
    349
    Not exactly the redhot video I was expecting. Nuther loss for wisconsin cash and carry ink. Nuther waste of my taxpaying greenbacks.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    One other detail that shows their attitude...
    There was no incident report filed.
    They think this attack & theft is normal, acceptable, nothing to notify the chain of command about.
    One officer even said that he only writes incident reports when he's planning to pursue charges against someone!
    Appealing?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,161

    MJS UPDATE!! Police justified in wrestling gun from owner, jury decides

    Ziebell testified he felt he was losing control of the situation when she ignored his commands to put the gun back on the counter and pulled it away when he tried to snatch it from her through the customer window.

    Jurors saw security video, from both sides of the customer window, of the entire encounter. They deliberated less than an hour before reaching a verdict.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/g...289164401.html
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  11. #11
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    1,228
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    FUQ

    "Her federal lawsuit set for trial Tuesday stems from an encounter with police in July 2011. Four months earlier, Milwaukee police had forced their way into Sutterfield's home without a search warrant, arrested her and taken her for an emergency mental evaluation, hours after her therapist reported Sutterfield made a suicidal comment during a session. Police also seized her gun and ammunition.

    A federal appeals court approved of the officers' actions, but Sutterfield now is challenging how police treated her when she went to get the seized gun and ammunition back, armed with a court order. Sutterfield went to the police property office to retrieve her weapon. An officer gave her the gun, but she refused to sign a release and objected to a policy that she must return another day for her ammunition. That led to a struggle with two officers, who ultimately took the gun from Sutterfield but then gave it back after she agreed to sign the release."

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/g...289164401.html

    The saga continues as the plot thickens.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Thanks for the video !

    Now what if she came into the station armed and upon this guy trying to attack her defends herself.

    I would not have found her guilty after that point in time of anything.

  13. #13
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
    Looking forward to seeing the video mentioned in the article. Might be quite entertaining.
    I've seen it - not entertaining at all! They handled her like a piece of meat at the slaughter house. Totally unnecessary, but you know it's to be expected from the "do as I say & not as I do crowd". Had any of us mere mortals treated someone else the way they did Krysta, we would have been charged with battery at the minimum.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    popple butte
    Posts
    349
    Ruminating is ruinous.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Captioned video of the attack in the property room lobby:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC2DWx5TwQE

    The officer didn't object, didn't say anything, when I took the pistol apart to check for damage. I was standing there handling the pistol in the lobby of the property room, strong side toward him, with a magazine in the holster, and he had nothing to say about it.
    When he testilied today, he said he did think it was unusual that I was so thorough (and quick). Apparently most people just rack the slide, look into the chamber, and pull the trigger, call it "undamaged".

    He objected after I picked up the case (with unloaded pistol inside... which he knew was unloaded because he'd checked it, he'd seen me check it & take it apart), questioned why they weren't following the court order & returning all my property, then stood there calling his supervisor to deal with the problem. Telling him I was calling the supervisor, telling him to calm down (he was armed & getting agitated & loud), not moving toward the door... had no effect.

    I didn't refuse to sign the paperwork, only wanted to have all my property back (which the court had ordered), and was delaying signing until the problem got sorted out.
    This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think the way you handled yourself and the gun/encased gun wasn't helpful to your cause.

    We've seen again and again that many who choose to engage or "up the ante" with badge-heavy LEOs usually lose at the scene, only to win down the road. It's my perception that the video, coupled with the fact that you had no evidence refuting the testilying, and when considered by a non-RKBA person, led to your loss in court.

  16. #16
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    They think this attack & theft is normal, acceptable, nothing to notify the chain of command about.
    That's because it is normal. Every tv show society sees with cops in it goes to reinforce this. Assault, theft, kidnapping even against people they know have not committed a crime is all okay as long as it's not too too bad.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  17. #17
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think the way you handled yourself and the gun/encased gun wasn't helpful to your cause.

    We've seen again and again that many who choose to engage or "up the ante" with badge-heavy LEOs usually lose at the scene, only to win down the road. It's my perception that the video, coupled with the fact that you had no evidence refuting the testilying, and when considered by a non-RKBA person, led to your loss in court.
    It is a good point. I have yet to see someone shot or beaten while prostrating themselves and licking black shiny boots.
    Last edited by twoskinsonemanns; 01-22-2015 at 09:06 PM. Reason: spell check fails me!
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  18. #18
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    It is a good point. I have yet to see someone shot or beaten while prostrating themselves and licking black shinny boots.
    What's a shinny boot?
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  19. #19
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    2,573

    Krysta Sutterfield alleges excessive force when she was retrieving her gun. MJS

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    What's a shinny boot?
    You know - the ones you use to kick little old ladies in their shins while stealing the remainder of their SS check via the legal robbery system.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 01-22-2015 at 08:56 PM.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    ...I have yet to see someone shot or beaten while prostrating themselves and licking black shiny boots.

  21. #21
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth
    Now what if she came into the station armed and upon this guy trying to attack her defends herself.
    In WI, police stations are one of the prohibited places where it's illegal for citizens to be armed.
    Even if it weren't, this one has "no guns allowed" signs on the door, like all other city of Milwaukee buildings.
    And at the time this happened, it wasn't legal for a citizen to be armed in a taxpayer-owned building.

    The confusing thing is that they're either ignoring the law, choosing not to charge people who walk out carrying a firearm, or that's not really a police station (it's the property division) and the only legal punishment would be a trespassing ticket (because it's posted).
    Or I suppose if someone didn't have a ccl, they could be charged for possessing a firearm in a gov't building.

    Quote Originally Posted by BB62
    This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think the way you handled yourself and the gun/encased gun wasn't helpful to your cause.
    We've seen again and again that many who choose to engage or "up the ante" with badge-heavy LEOs usually lose at the scene, only to win down the road.
    It's my perception that the video, coupled with the fact that you had no evidence refuting the testilying, and when considered by a non-RKBA person, led to your loss in court.
    Oh, there was testimony to refute some of the testilying... from other defense witnesses!
    The first clerk (who was scared of my holster, and me standing waiting) testified that she didn't hear me raise my voice before the attack, even though the attackers claimed I did.
    The supervisor who answered the phone in the middle of the tussle testified that he didn't hear the attackers speaking to me, even though the attackers claimed they were.

    I wasn't trying to "engage or up the ante". I checked my pistol for damage so I could note it on the form they required me to sign, just like I noted that they hadn't given me the ammo (which was listed on the form; they even submitted a copy of it as a defense exhibit). I was doing it safely, and even the bald officer/clerk admitted that it was smart to check to be sure it was unloaded, so I wasn't transporting a loaded firearm (which at that point was illegal). He hadn't seen it done there before, and when he testified he seemed surprised I did it quickly. Looking back, I should have left it disassembled when I put it in the case.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 01-22-2015 at 10:38 PM.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Have never found fault with Krista's conduct nor seen such as detrimental to our cause - quite to the contrary.

    We should all walk so tall.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    <snip> Looking back, I should have left it disassembled when I put it in the case.
    I think you did fine...next time bring some friends with you to get your gun back.

    Cops are big heroes when they can accost a single female. I've had to get property at a police station before and I told them I would be armed when I would come. They said you can't; and I said that I most certainly would be and if they wanted to make an issue out of it, remember I'm armed. They delivered the property to the end of my driveway.

    These cops are morons though ... if you wanted to shoot them you would have brought a loaded gun with you or just shot them from a distance with a rifle .. or just tossed in a regular or chemical bomb into the place. But no, they just wanted to intimidate you. Yet not all respond to these tactics as they would like.

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    In WI, police stations are one of the prohibited places where it's illegal for citizens to be armed.
    Even if it weren't, this one has "no guns allowed" signs on the door, like all other city of Milwaukee buildings.
    And at the time this happened, it wasn't legal for a citizen to be armed in a taxpayer-owned building.

    The confusing thing is that they're either ignoring the law, choosing not to charge people who walk out carrying a firearm, or that's not really a police station (it's the property division) and the only legal punishment would be a trespassing ticket (because it's posted).
    Or I suppose if someone didn't have a ccl, they could be charged for possessing a firearm in a gov't building.


    Oh, there was testimony to refute some of the testilying... from other defense witnesses!
    The first clerk (who was scared of my holster, and me standing waiting) testified that she didn't hear me raise my voice before the attack, even though the attackers claimed I did.
    The supervisor who answered the phone in the middle of the tussle testified that he didn't hear the attackers speaking to me, even though the attackers claimed they were.

    I wasn't trying to "engage or up the ante". I checked my pistol for damage so I could note it on the form they required me to sign, just like I noted that they hadn't given me the ammo (which was listed on the form; they even submitted a copy of it as a defense exhibit). I was doing it safely, and even the bald officer/clerk admitted that it was smart to check to be sure it was unloaded, so I wasn't transporting a loaded firearm (which at that point was illegal). He hadn't seen it done there before, and when he testified he seemed surprised I did it quickly. Looking back, I should have left it disassembled when I put it in the case.
    (my bold above)

    Your post on what you did and didn't do (for instance: "I didn't give in to his demands to put the case on the counter while I was calling his supervisor."), plus the video makes clear to me what your actions and mindset was - which IMHO was "Dammit, I've got this court order, and I expect you to acquiesce to me!"

    Do I blame you for having that mindset? No. Do I blame you for acting on it, in a situation that could and did involving the twisting of facts? Yep.

    I would have left, then returned with a witness, an audio recorder and a video camera - then let things play out while acting with a cool head.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Have never found fault with Krista's conduct nor seen such as detrimental to our cause - quite to the contrary.

    We should all walk so tall.
    Note I said HER cause.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •