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Thread: Gunman opens fire on students "right in front of a cop."

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    Gunman opens fire on students "right in front of a cop."

    A 17-year-old boy was shot once in the arm and a 14-year-old girl was shot once in the leg on Grand Street outside The High School for Enterprise, Business & Technology and Progress High School for Professional Careers just before 3 p.m. Police were trying to scatter everyone. “He opened right in front of a cop. The kids were screaming, yelling. They ran all over,”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-brooklyn-hig/

    http://pix11.com/2015/01/20/2-shot-n...k-high-school/
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Does this mean we have to start metal-detecting, patting down, and nude-o-scoping everybody two (three? five?) blocks from every school?

    Maybe make them wear a special paper coverall with a symbol on the chest and back indicating that they have been checked and OK'd?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Does this mean we have to start metal-detecting, patting down, and nude-o-scoping everybody two (three? five?) blocks from every school?

    Maybe make them wear a special paper coverall with a symbol on the chest and back indicating that they have been checked and OK'd?
    Sadly, these rare, but media friendly events (if it bleeds it leads) give emotional "proof" of why we need a 1000' gun free zone around schools. Never mind that you and I know such zones do nothing to prevent these types of things. Many will believe that something, almost anything, must be done. And since government can't mandate that children be born into working marriages and then be raised with some semblance of morality and decency, another attack on RKBA will have to do.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    House peeping radar ought'a be able to scan a whole street or school for guns.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    And since government can't mandate that children be born into working marriages and then be raised with some semblance of morality and decency, another attack on RKBA will have to do.
    Government isn't even sure what "morality and decency" are.

    Even if it could, crime would still happen. Broken families explain crimes engendered by circumstance, but they do little to account for mental illness. There's no correlation between being a mass killer and coming from a broken home.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Interesting how the non-cop "suspect" in the drawing at the bottom is the only person not carrying a gun.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Government isn't even sure what "morality and decency" are.
    At one time, the people of this nation had a pretty good idea. Yes, they needed to overcome racism. But doing that doesn't require them to forget everything else they knew. But that is way off topic to this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Even if it could, crime would still happen. Broken families explain crimes engendered by circumstance, but they do little to account for mental illness. There's no correlation between being a mass killer and coming from a broken home.
    And mass murders are so rare as to be irrelevant from a criminal justice point of view. We've had somewhere around 14,000 homicides annually in this nation for the last few years. (Down significantly from recent prior decades arguably because we've managed to lock up those responsible for homicides so they don't reoffend or even get them locked up on lessor crimes before they graduate to homicide.) How many of those were part of mass murders? A couple dozen a year? That would amount to about two-tenths of one percent of all homicides being mass murders.

    Even still, at one time we were pretty good at locking up (I mean committing) the mentally ill. But someone made a movie and we decided that mass commitments was infringing their rights. And it probably was, though I'm not sure "living" (ie freezing, starving, being assaulted and raped, etc) on the streets living under over-passes is materially better. We've now gone so far that it is all but impossible for the mentally ill to even request (while lucid) help be given forcefully during the times they are not sane.

    One way or another, criminals and the insane have their "rights" protected and walk the streets while decent folks can be stripped of their rights to an effective defense simply because the dirt bags and nut cases choose the same tools to commit crimes that sane, sensible folks choose as the most effective means of defense against crimes.

    Not to the mention the downward spiral that gun bans create. In areas (including NY) where private ownership and daily possession of guns is difficult, criminals have a real advantage and seem to commit more of these kinds of brazen crimes, which leads to ever more demand for gun bans.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    And mass murders are so rare as to be irrelevant from a criminal justice point of view.
    Of course, but this is a red herring. Regardless of their statistical prevalence, mass shootings are the only thing that bring this debate to the forefront in the first place. Our gun rights aren't threatened because of gangstas. At least, not since the 90s.

    "Fixing" "families" will do little to nothing to prevent psychosis, and therefore will do little to nothing to prevent mass shootings, and therefore will have little to no effect on the public policy debate. So it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    One way or another, criminals and the insane have their "rights" protected
    Given that "insanity" doesn't have a clear meaning, let alone an objective and universal definition, and given that one cannot meaningfully dispossess oneself of right without abrogating it for others, it's facile to even suggest that the "insane" ipso facto don't possess "rights".

    We can agree to disagree, though, given that this is all tangential at best to the OP.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-20-2015 at 09:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Given that "insanity" doesn't have a clear meaning, let alone an objective and universal definition, and given that one cannot meaningfully dispossess oneself of right without abrogating it for others, it's facile to even suggest that the "insane" don't possess "rights".
    I've never suggested the don't posses rights. I'm just wondering which of the new found "rights" takes precedence these days and will in the future.

    The supposed right to "live" under a viaduct and routinely engage in aggressive panhanding, improper disposal of human waste, and otherwise impose burdens on society? When did vagrancy become a right? Or maybe the right to get medical care that we hear so much about these days? If a fully lucid, intelligent 17 year old girl can't direct her own medical care contrary to the desires of some State agent, why is the guy talking to himself incoherently and rambling about the CIA planting bugs in his head allowed to refuse medical care? Because he's been breathing for more than 18 years?

    Don't bother diving into the details of any of the admittedly poor examples I've pulled off the top of my head. They are not my point. My point is that any discussion of "rights" has be based on some common understanding of what rights are real rights and which rights are pretend rights made up to force me to support someone else or to surrender my real rights.

    If we have a good enough understanding of insanity to use it (however rarely) to avoid punishing people for conduct that would otherwise be criminal, then I think we have a good enough understanding to avoid allowing it to prevent a man from denying himself what is arguable, life saving treatment.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    If we have a good enough understanding of insanity to use it (however rarely) to avoid punishing people for conduct that would otherwise be criminal, then I think we have a good enough understanding to avoid allowing it to prevent a man from denying himself what is arguable, life saving treatment.

    Charles
    Fair enough.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Technically, the Five Boroughs are a GFZ...has been since 1911. This story is nothing but a NYPD stunt...wait, no it is not, when NYPD cops start shooting they hit a few more innocent bystanders than this dude did. Nope, no NYPD stunt.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    This story is nothing but a NYPD stunt...wait, no it is not, when NYPD cops start shooting they hit a few more innocent bystanders than this dude did. Nope, no NYPD stunt.
    lol, why are you the first person to point this out? This isn't even noteworthy compared to most instances of "legitimate" NYPD "law" "enforcement".

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    lol, why are you the first person to point this out? This isn't even noteworthy compared to most instances of "legitimate" NYPD "law" "enforcement".
    ...for the children...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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