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Thread: Dads against me buying a pistol

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    Dads against me buying a pistol

    im new to the site and i am 18. i already know that in va you can legally purchase a handgun at the age of 18 from a private sale and open carry. I commercial fish and the places i sell my catch to are not in the best neighborhoods. allot of times we get back late and the places are closed but they have it to where you can go there and ice down your fish for them to take in the morning. sometimes depending on what type of fishing we do we can get back around 12 or as late as 2 in the morning. i am a very situationly aware person always checking my surroundings. one thing that i don't like is my young age. an older person would consider me an easy target. id like to buy a pistol to carry for a last result. ok so this leads me to my question. my dad is not very fond of handguns because of how easy they can be abused. which can be understood. he doesnt think i should buy one. he has never owned one either. i would like to know of any possible ways i could convince him to change his mind. or a good argument that i could use to persuade him. thanks

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Island Boy View Post
    ... he has never owned one either. i would like to know of any possible ways i could convince him to change his mind. or a good argument that i could use to persuade him. thanks
    Have him take a firearms safety class WITH YOU. You should be able to find a class that doesn't require you to already have your own guns. You will both learn a lot of valuable information, get to do some bonding, and he will KNOW that you now know the proper way to be safe with them.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Have him take a firearms safety class WITH YOU. You should be able to find a class that doesn't require you to already have your own guns. You will both learn a lot of valuable information, get to do some bonding, and he will KNOW that you now know the proper way to be safe with them.
    Great advise. Most folks are "afraid" of what the do not understand.

    Let him know you fear for you safety and life.

    As a father I would want to make sure my kids are safe.
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    good idea. this was one of my main ideas to show him i can safely and responsibly handle a handgun. i forgot to mention that we are both avid hunters and own many firearms. and know safe and responsible gun handling. its just the one thing he does not like are pistols.

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    Ultimately, if you are 18, you are legally an adult and free to get your own place and then do as you please, paying your own way, of course. A man's home is his castle and your father is entirely within his rights to run his home as he sees fit.

    I believe that any argument you make to him, any persuasive tactic you try, is likely to be better received if you fully accept the above truth. Respecting a father's wishes for his own home can go a long way to proving a child (even an adult child) really is mature.

    As for carrying the gun for self defense, be sure to be fully versed in the laws of your city and State regarding 18 year old carrying guns.

    Best of luck.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Island Boy View Post
    im new to the site and i am 18. i already know that in va you can legally purchase a handgun at the age of 18 from a private sale and open carry. I commercial fish and the places i sell my catch to are not in the best neighborhoods. allot of times we get back late and the places are closed but they have it to where you can go there and ice down your fish for them to take in the morning. sometimes depending on what type of fishing we do we can get back around 12 or as late as 2 in the morning. i am a very situationly aware person always checking my surroundings. one thing that i don't like is my young age. an older person would consider me an easy target. id like to buy a pistol to carry for a last result. ok so this leads me to my question. my dad is not very fond of handguns because of how easy they can be abused. which can be understood. he doesnt think i should buy one. he has never owned one either. i would like to know of any possible ways i could convince him to change his mind. or a good argument that i could use to persuade him. thanks
    Explain the bolded above, please.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Thanks for all the input guys. I am still living at home and will most likely still be for a few more years or until I get my finances straight. So I still do follow his rules since it is his house and they do provide me with so much. But something a didn't mention in the op wich I probaly should have but back to the part about being a easy target. As of now I don't feel like my safety or life is threatened but knowing what people are capable of is the reason I want one. No I wouldn't purposely put myself into a situation where I would need to use a gun but some things in life you can't control and that's why I like being prepared for the worst case scenario.my dad likes to mention satistics allot due to the fact he was a engineer for 40 some years. And he mentioned you might have a 5% chance of needing to use a gun in self defense. Don't quote me on the % it was just a guess. But what he doesn't understand is that the probability of an event like that of happening might be very low but it only takes the one time and it could be the last time. I guess you could say my veiw point would be better safe than sorry or better ti have it and not need it then to need it and not have it

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ^ ^ It only takes once! ^ ^
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Whose boat?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Great attitude. You should absolutely respect your parents rules as you live in their home. Perhaps a compromise might win the day. Offer to keep it in a lock box in the home.
    Also if you own your own vehicle an alternative may be to keep a pistol secured in the vehicle and not bring it in the house at all.
    If you don't bring the pistol in his home and keep it secure in your personal vehicle I don't see the need to even tell him you own it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Great attitude. You should absolutely respect your parents rules as you live in their home. Perhaps a compromise might win the day. Offer to keep it in a lock box in the home.
    Also if you own your own vehicle an alternative may be to keep a pistol secured in the vehicle and not bring it in the house at all.
    If you don't bring the pistol in his home and keep it secure in your personal vehicle I don't see the need to even tell him you own it.
    that was one of my ideas but there is a few problems with that. im currently still in high school senior year. so the issue of driving to school with a firearm comes up and the future career im trying to pursue is at the shipyard where no weapons are allowed (big no no ). im trying to get in the apprentice school for the shipyard and if i do get in then i don't want to take a single risk to be kicked out. not to sure how he would like that it was in my truck 24/7. he is a big safety nut and has to lock up all his guns in fear that some psycho will rob us and take them and cause harm with them. a little extreme maybe for where we live but never can be to safe i guess. the funny thing about this is that he always prepares for anything. like for instance whenever we hunt together he will bring way more than necessary and he has just about every thing he could need.but it got to the point where it was to much. he always plans ahead for stuff so he wont forget anything. i am trying to use this to my advantage to persuade my argument. if i could just explain how important it is to prepare for a bad situation and what you might need in that situation for hunting but then transfer the point or topic about self protection. and i think one of the things that makes him feel the way he does is he has never really been in a situation or time in his life where he had to deal with self deference or protecting someone. he worked at NASA for a long time and never felt the need to carry or own. and i think that has a big deal to do with why he thinks its not that important. and i tried to explain the fact that you might never have to use your gun in defense ever even if you carried everyday but all it take is one time and if you carry you might have a chance to defend yourself or your family in that situation other than trying to make do without it and in certain cases that might cost you your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Whose boat?
    i own my own boat that i fish out of and i fish a lot with my friends and there family. small town that was created from fishing so the tradition is still being passed on. not to mention there are plenty of feuds between fisherman that have almost ended in bad news. everywhere from tearing up their gear and actually assaulting them from another boat. lot of rivaily here. limited resources causes competition which can end in conflict.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Not sure if there are any USCG issues where firearms are concerned that need to be recognized and/or addressed, may not be any, it is prudent to research. I'd be installing a video camera on the boat, one of those GoPro cameras.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Island Boy View Post
    Thanks for all the input guys. I am still living at home and will most likely still be for a few more years or until I get my finances straight. So I still do follow his rules since it is his house and they do provide me with so much. But something a didn't mention in the op wich I probaly should have but back to the part about being a easy target. As of now I don't feel like my safety or life is threatened but knowing what people are capable of is the reason I want one. No I wouldn't purposely put myself into a situation where I would need to use a gun but some things in life you can't control and that's why I like being prepared for the worst case scenario.my dad likes to mention satistics allot due to the fact he was a engineer for 40 some years. And he mentioned you might have a 5% chance of needing to use a gun in self defense. Don't quote me on the % it was just a guess. But what he doesn't understand is that the probability of an event like that of happening might be very low but it only takes the one time and it could be the last time. I guess you could say my veiw point would be better safe than sorry or better ti have it and not need it then to need it and not have it
    There is only a small chance of drowning falling from a boat, but the Coast Guard requires that you have floatation devices in your boat. I was a dock master at Perico Harbor for a short time, unless things have changed there are no laws against having a firearm in your boat. State laws may vary though.

    ETA Grape when a 18 yo mentions old person they usually are not talking our age. Probably he means someone in 20's to 40's that may be a predator. To younguns we are not old, we are dinosaurs.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-21-2015 at 01:06 PM.
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    Solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Island Boy View Post
    good idea. this was one of my main ideas to show him i can safely and responsibly handle a handgun. i forgot to mention that we are both avid hunters and own many firearms. and know safe and responsible gun handling. its just the one thing he does not like are pistols.
    emphasis added.
    Huge omission.

    Now that we have a better idea of your dad's position on firearms, here is your solution. Open Carry a long gun. Your dad will have his "fears" of pistols assuaged, and you will have the deterrent and protection you seek.

    Good Luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    --snipped--
    ETA Grape when a 18 yo mentions old person they usually are not talking our age. Probably he means someone in 20's to 40's that may be a predator. To younguns we are not old, we are dinosaurs.
    Understand that, but he said, "an older person would consider me an easy target" - if that is what he thinks, why are same age or younger excluded?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Understand that, but he said, "an older person would consider me an easy target" - if that is what he thinks, why are same age or younger excluded?
    I can't speak for the OP, but many 18 year olds have not yet achieved full stature and strength...though I'd expect an 18 year old who runs his own fishing boat probably gets plenty of exercise in and so is probably plenty fit. Also, at 18, as a senior in high school, one is still very keenly aware of age. He has spent most of his life in a public school system where segregation by age is the norm and where 5th graders are almost always smaller than 7th graders who are almost always smaller than the 9th graders, who are usually smaller than the seniors. To many high school seniors, especially those not generally involved in violence, a "man" of 25 or more years of age has all kinds of supposed advantages in almost any physical altercation.

    A few years out of school where birthdays and age no longer matter (say post 21), and these notions tend to pass and it becomes clear that biological age matters far less than life experience, training, and mental and physical abilities. But the view of "older men" posing a risk or supposing that older men would have some advantage over an 18 year old, strikes me as quite common for a high school senior, especially one raised right to respect adults.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO.

    You tell us (without bothering with paragraphs - just yanking your chain on that but they do help) that when your father goes hunting he carries lots of "just in case" stuff that I'll bet he never actually needs to use. He keeps his guns locked up so nobody will steal them and use them to do harm - just in case someone does come to the house to steal stuff. Your father is always dealing with "what-if" and makes plans for what he would do when "what-if" becomes rreality.

    Right now it seems that your primary desire is to carry for self defense when you come back from working on the water. I'm guessing that besides your catch you have other stuff (like your boat and gear) that is valuable and that someone who wants to steal any of those things might be willing to seriously injure or even kill you to take those things from you. I think that's your "hook" for dealing with your father - along with getting some decent training. The CHP courses are not "decent training" except for knowing about where and when you cannot carry. Better courses would be NRA First Steps and NRA Personal Protection.

    I'm not sure why you think you would have to transport your handgun - following all laws - to school so you could take some firearms classes. What's keeping you from being able to go home and get your handgun and then go to the training?

    Your plans for the future certainly point out how GFZs (Gun Free Zones) put people at a disadvantage. You might be able to cut some of that disadvantage by finding a place to park outside the shipyard. A trick along that line is to go to a house nearby and offer to rent their driveway during the day. Possibly a bit safer than parking on the street or in some lot.

    Good luck to you.

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    When I read the thread title the missing apostrophe from "Dad's" made my head immediately think "DAMBAP" - great, another anti-gun group but at least this one has a decent sounding name. The PSA would be great. "We at DAMBAP are opposed to the lowering of the age ... DAMBAP supports legislative action... DAMBAP asks fathers everywhere ... "
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Welcome to OCDO.

    You tell us (without bothering with paragraphs - just yanking your chain on that but they do help) that when your father goes hunting he carries lots of "just in case" stuff that I'll bet he never actually needs to use. He keeps his guns locked up so nobody will steal them and use them to do harm - just in case someone does come to the house to steal stuff. Your father is always dealing with "what-if" and makes plans for what he would do when "what-if" becomes rreality.

    Right now it seems that your primary desire is to carry for self defense when you come back from working on the water. I'm guessing that besides your catch you have other stuff (like your boat and gear) that is valuable and that someone who wants to steal any of those things might be willing to seriously injure or even kill you to take those things from you. I think that's your "hook" for dealing with your father - along with getting some decent training. The CHP courses are not "decent training" except for knowing about where and when you cannot carry. Better courses would be NRA First Steps and NRA Personal Protection.

    I'm not sure why you think you would have to transport your handgun - following all laws - to school so you could take some firearms classes. What's keeping you from being able to go home and get your handgun and then go to the training?

    Your plans for the future certainly point out how GFZs (Gun Free Zones) put people at a disadvantage. You might be able to cut some of that disadvantage by finding a place to park outside the shipyard. A trick along that line is to go to a house nearby and offer to rent their driveway during the day. Possibly a bit safer than parking on the street or in some lot.

    Good luck to you.

    stay safe.
    Good idea about off yard parking. The problem I'm dealing with is he doesn't want a pistol in his house. That's the big problem. And at the moment I am driving his truck daily to and from school. Due to a pos truck I bought it's been sitting in the driveway. Needs a little work and an inspection but it nickel and dimes me to death but that's another story. He could say since it is his truck that I couldn't carry it in the truck.and therfore not being able to carry it very much. I'd really like to be able to carry without having to go threw an act of Congress every time I'd like to use it. I guess it's time to fix the truck. But where would I keep it while parked at school if I got one before I graduated

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    I think you're SOL until you get out of school and get your own place and vehicle. If he is a religious man ask him to pray that you don't get attacked as you will be defenseless.
    Tell him if the worst should happen he should try hard not to blame himself.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Island Boy View Post
    good idea. this was one of my main ideas to show him i can safely and responsibly handle a handgun. i forgot to mention that we are both avid hunters and own many firearms. and know safe and responsible gun handling. its just the one thing he does not like are pistols.
    First of all, what exactly is it that he doesn't like about pistols? Too many listens to Steve Earle's "Devil's Right Hand"?

    Also, my own parents weren't too keen on me OCing when I started (although my first pistol was a birthday gift from my dad). They eventually got used to it. I'm pretty sure my dad still thinks it's silly, but he hasn't said anything negative in years. My mom is fairly pro-carry these days.

    It's sort of become part of who I am, and my parents accept that. They also understand it's something I've thought about deeply.

    I'm curious about the answer to my question before I ponder any advice of my own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    First of all, what exactly is it that he doesn't like about pistols? Too many listens to Steve Earle's "Devil's Right Hand"?

    Also, my own parents weren't too keen on me OCing when I started (although my first pistol was a birthday gift from my dad). They eventually got used to it. I'm pretty sure my dad still thinks it's silly, but he hasn't said anything negative in years. My mom is fairly pro-carry these days.

    It's sort of become part of who I am, and my parents accept that. They also understand it's something I've thought about deeply.

    I'm curious about the answer to my question before I ponder any advice of my own.
    He thinks they can be abused easyer.I can see what he means about that if someone had one and didn't know proper gun safety and such. And another reason would be I guess he thinks if I own a pistol I will get a cowboy mentality or that I'm a big shot Beacuse I have a pistol. And that point brings up another thing that happened in the past. I had a ruger 10 22 with the normal stock on it with 2 25rd mags.I wanted ti get a ar since I was now legally able to buy one via private sale. He wasn't keen on the idea. He owns one. But his main reason was Beacuse he thought the image would get to my head like stated above. Well I Ended up changing the stock on the ruger to a tatical looking one.threw one of my big scopes on it and bam same gun different look. I could tell he wasn't very inthused about it. But what I got him to realize was it was the same gun and he finally got used to it. I don't think he realizes that I am responsible enough to own one. That might not be it but who knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I think you're SOL until you get out of school and get your own place and vehicle. If he is a religious man ask him to pray that you don't get attacked as you will be defenseless.
    Tell him if the worst should happen he should try hard not to blame himself.

    I'm thinking along these lines as well. You live at home, use Dad's truck as transportation, can't carry at school and probably not even in the parking lot inside the vehicle. (I'm not up on Virginia laws, at the least.) Where would you keep/store your firearm while you are in school?

    My Dad had long guns but did not like handguns. He never really gave me a reason up until he died. My Mom did not like handguns either much until we were eating out one day and I was open carry. I was about 50 or so. Another woman came up to me and asked why I thought I needed to carry a gun around with me? I pointed at my Mom and asked her if she knew who that woman was? She said I suppose your Mom? I said that's the most important woman in the world, I'll defend her with my life if I need to. I wanted to say I'd defend her with YOUR life if I have to, but I held my tongue. My Mom never said a word about it until I was dropping her off back home and then she asked me if I would really defend her with my life? Of course! She has never said another word about me carrying a gun, and I heard through the grapevine that she has told all of her friends about that day.

    So, you never know what and when things will change, I suppose. I think you need to respect your parents' wishes as long as you live at home. I'm not sure what size boat we are talking about, but I thought most large yachts type boats had some kind of long guns on board for protection against !!!!!pirates!!!! and such? So, I actually think that might not be such a terrible idea, tho I suspect it might have been suggested somewhat in jest. (I could be wrong)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Island Boy View Post
    im new to the site and i am 18. i already know that in va you can legally purchase a handgun at the age of 18 from a private sale and open carry. I commercial fish and the places i sell my catch to are not in the best neighborhoods. allot of times we get back late and the places are closed but they have it to where you can go there and ice down your fish for them to take in the morning. sometimes depending on what type of fishing we do we can get back around 12 or as late as 2 in the morning. i am a very situationly aware person always checking my surroundings. one thing that i don't like is my young age. an older person would consider me an easy target. id like to buy a pistol to carry for a last result. ok so this leads me to my question. my dad is not very fond of handguns because of how easy they can be abused. which can be understood. he doesnt think i should buy one. he has never owned one either. i would like to know of any possible ways i could convince him to change his mind. or a good argument that i could use to persuade him. thanks
    You likely will not be able to change the mind of your father; he sounds like a communist who is very happy that you cannot defend yourself against the state.

    You need not explain to me why you want a pistol; its your right. That's good enough for me and it should be good enough for anyone else.

    If your father wishes to make his lame arguments of being an anti, he is free to open an acct and spew his merit-less claims and arguments.

    Gun classes ? eh. Read the gun's manual is best and is focused on the actual gun you will possess. And time at a range to become proficient with the firearm.

    Up to you where you go from here.

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