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Thread: Confirmed attempted guns snatch! On a concealed carrier!

  1. #1
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Confirmed attempted guns snatch! On a concealed carrier!

    Deputies: Man attacks Walmart customer carrying concealed weapon

    A man was arrested after he attacked a man who had a handgun in a holster and a concealed weapons permit as he walked around a Brandon Walmart on Tuesday morning, the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office said.

    Michael Foster was charged with battery for attacking another customer, Clarence Daniels, at Walmart, 11110 Causeway Blvd, Brandon.

    Just before noon Tuesday, Foster, 43, of Lithia, saw Daniels in the Walmart parking lot in possession of a handgun that was in a holster and under his coat, the sheriff’s office said.

    Foster followed Daniels in the parking lot and into the store. While in the store, Foster attacked Daniels, 62, of Seffner, the sheriff’s office said.

    Foster grabbed Daniels from behind in a choke hold and then took him to the ground, the sheriff’s office said.

    While both men struggled, Foster yelled that Daniels had a gun. Daniels also yelled that he had a permit to legally carry the gun, the sheriff’s office said.


    http://tbo.com/news/crime/deputies-m...150120/?page=1

    --Moderator Note - there was no attempted gun snatch--
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-21-2015 at 04:44 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Sorry, NOT A GUN GRAB! Just a hoplophob committing a crime against one lawfully in possession of a firearm!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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  3. #3
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Deputies: Man attacks Walmart customer carrying concealed weapon

    A man was arrested after he attacked a man who had a handgun in a holster and a concealed weapons permit as he walked around a Brandon Walmart on Tuesday morning, the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office said.

    Michael Foster was charged with battery for attacking another customer, Clarence Daniels, at Walmart, 11110 Causeway Blvd, Brandon.

    Just before noon Tuesday, Foster, 43, of Lithia, saw Daniels in the Walmart parking lot in possession of a handgun that was in a holster and under his coat, the sheriff’s office said.

    Foster followed Daniels in the parking lot and into the store. While in the store, Foster attacked Daniels, 62, of Seffner, the sheriff’s office said.

    Foster grabbed Daniels from behind in a choke hold and then took him to the ground, the sheriff’s office said.

    While both men struggled, Foster yelled that Daniels had a gun. Daniels also yelled that he had a permit to legally carry the gun, the sheriff’s office said.


    http://tbo.com/news/crime/deputies-m...150120/?page=1
    Crazy someone so retarded could get the jump on an armed citizen. I've never been in that position but I know I have my head on a swivel armed or not. Everyone you see is a potential agent of evil.
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    Unintended consequence of "flashing" a CC gun -- could it happen to an OCer?

    Article title: Man attacks concealed-carrier in Walmart after seeing his holstered firearm

    http://concealednation.org/2015/01/m...tered-firearm/

    Article excerpt:

    " Picture yourself getting out of your vehicle at the store when your concealed carry firearm is briefly exposed. During the exposure, a passerby sees the firearm and then follows you into the store. Once inside, the man comes up behind you and puts you in a choke-hold while yelling “THIS MAN HAS A GUN!” "


    Wow...wonder what he would do seeing an OCer.

    One lesson though: Be aware of your surroundings (a little better)...like who might be behind you! ;-)
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-20-2015 at 09:55 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Sorry, NOT A GUN GRAB! Just a hoplophob committing a crime against one lawfully in possession of a firearm!
    +1

    I hope assault charges are forthcoming against the assailant.

    I see nothing to suggest the assailant would have reacted any differently had another mode of carry been used.

    A good reminder to all of us to keep up our SA.

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    Last edited by utbagpiper; 01-20-2015 at 10:09 PM.
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  6. #6
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    MODERATOR:

    Oops...WW posted this elsewhere here about 12 minutes before I did!

    Feel free to delete this one.

    --Moderator merged them--
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-21-2015 at 04:58 AM. Reason: Mod note
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  7. #7
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    Well, a liberal judge (of which there are legion) might ask, "What would a reasonable person think/do in this situation?"

    Reasonable probably meaning how another liberal -- your Joe Average out there -- would think and react. And THEY are legion, too.


    So there might be NO charges if Foster was deemed to be acting reasonably -- even if erroneously.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-20-2015 at 10:27 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Very glad to hear the bad guy was arrested for battery against the armed victim.

    While not illegal in many states to accidentally expose a concealed firearm, it does draw much more attention as to "who is this guy and what is he up to" than does open carry, which people almost always assume means you are a good guy, whether they like the fact that you do it or not.
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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Foster is lucky he didn't get shot or worst.

    Daniels, 62 years old, was lucky not to get injured.

    Happy ending. Law abiding citizen OK, idiot in jail.
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    I carry a CRKT m16-14zsf ( http://www.crkt.com/M16-14-Z-Desert-...WKS-Combo-Edge ) in my left front pocket at all times I have my pants on.

    The knife has double "flippers" and can be opened on the draw with one hand by snagging the lower flipper on the pocket corner ( and I practice this daily) and I keep it razor sharp. If grabbed from behind I intend to launch what I like to think of as "operation castration" and as the femoral artery runs very shallow in the inner thigh I will make an effort to open that as well.

    I also like to keep the head on a swivel, but no one can maintain 24/7 SA, and it is possible for someone in a store setting to get up close behind you, so have a plan.

  11. #11
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Confirmed attempted guns snatch! On a concealed carrier!

    A pistol is only as useful as the person who carries it is diligent and alert. This was a older gentleman that was attacked by someone almost 20 years younger.

    Most people don't know how to break / evade rear choke holds or full nelson holds, so even if the older man had the a pocket knife or a BUG. It was useless at that point.

    Some people are bat crap crazy, I am guessing this was one of them. The older man was lucky he was not killed.

    FUQ from story,

    "When deputies arrived, they learned that Daniels indeed had a concealed weapons permit. Deputies also learned that Foster never called 911 or alerted store security about his concern that Daniels had a gun in the store, the sheriff’s office said.

    Foster was arrested at the scene and charged with battery.

    Neither Foster or Daniels was injured in the confrontation, the sheriff’s office said."
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 01-21-2015 at 12:38 AM. Reason: FUQ
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  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Sounds more like an attempted SWATting.

    Why else would the idjit grab the gentleman and yell "He's got a gun!"?

    OK, the idjit could have been trying to set himself up as a hero. Small chance, but I'll leave it as a possibility.

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    Foster is lucky he didn't get shot or worst...
    Yes, I agree, but I also had the thought that it's also possible that this experienced individual realized very quickly that the man was just a f-ing moron and this would soon all be sorted out. It happens.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    "Flash" suggests intentional ostentation or threat, while "accidental/inadvertant exposure" carries a much less hostile conotation.

    Whhy did you pick "flash"?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    skid,

    I see the term "flash" referring to TWO situations, one inadvertent and one deliberate. And also, the word "flash" to me means something happening VERY quickly, in a second or two -- something happening QUICKLY, seen for only a second or two, then it's gone. It's something "concrete" since it's a tangible event that DID happen -- but it has an abstract component as well, meaning intent: Deliberate and therefore known to the carrier or, inadvertent (accidental) and usually (but not always) unknown to the carrier.

    In THIS case, I said "flashed" because the "concealed" gun was seen for a very short period, in a "state" OTHER than it's intended and regular "state-of-carry." In this case, concealed was its regular state of carry. So I'm using "flashed" to mean a brief exposure -- and an INADVERTENT exposure as well, in THIS case, as opposed to a DELIBERATE exposure.

    A DELIBERATE exposure/flashing of a concealed gun could likely be construed as "brandishing" since the wearer flashing it deliberately/knowingly might be doing so to intimidate: Just raising his coat/jacket to display it, so a concealed gun becomes unconcealed -- visible, or OC (technically-speaking, even if OC only for a few seconds) to someone in order to intimidate (or possibly warn them, but THAT may not be a good idea). But an INADVERTENT (unintentional) "flashing" is innocuous enough, IMO...and in this case, it was just bad timing as the guy who saw it & freaked out about it (MWAG-call-guy) JUST happened to see it as he passed by JUST when the carrier "flashed" it as he got out of the car and the gun was briefly exposed -- unintentionally and likely unknown to/unnoticed by the carrier. Much the same as if one is wearing a sports jacket and the wind exposes a concealed gun under said jacket for 1 or 2 seconds...the carrier may or may not know the gun was visible/seen by anyone. Most likely, he/she didn't know.

    And obviously, the carrier in THIS case was blind-sided by the MWAG-call-guy as the carrier never saw the stalking/take-down coming -- otherwise, after he had gotten out of his car, the carrier would have been concerned someone MIGHT have seen his gun, and then may have noticed MWAG-call-guy looking at him in an unusual manner...and at least SUSPECT something was up with that guy staring. So the carrier probably had NO IDEA his gun had been exposed -- and was seen by said MWAG-call-guy -- and so was completely surprised by what happened (the take-down inside the store). No excuse for the carrier not noticing some guy apparently moving up behind him...i.e., acting suspiciously (stalking him) as apparently, the carrier wasn't as aware of his "6" as he should have been.

    In short, and in THIS case, a concealed gun (its regular state of carry) that is briefly exposed (and if OC isn't allowed, one could say illegally exposed, technically speaking only) is "flashed" in that it's no longer in its USUAL state of carry (concealed), but visible...even if only for a brief time, perhaps 1 or a few seconds, AND, it's visible inadvertently, meaning the exposure was NOT a deliberate act and so was most likely unnoticed by the carrier.

    So YOU are using "flash" to refer to a deliberate act akin to "brandishing," whereas *I* am using it for either act, deliberate or inadvertent...if deliberate, however, it then moves into "brandishing" territory, if you will, and so I agree with you there. We diverge in that I ALSO view an inadvertent exposure of a concealed gun -- its covering material removed and exposing the gun "accidentally" -- is also "flashing" but is NOT akin to "brandishing." How you and I define "flash" is probably more a matter of semantics really...

    So although the gun is visible ("flashed") for 1 or a few seconds in EITHER case, the INTENT (or lack of) is what makes the difference (to me): Deliberate or inadvertent -- brandishing or not brandishing, respectively.

    All of this IMO, of course, since IANAL.

    ...if that makes anything clearer...


    Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go watch it snow (again)...this being The Great State of Colorado that it is. Then go to bed and wake up to more snow in the morning. ;-)
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-21-2015 at 02:14 PM.
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  16. #16
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Let me know when the evildoer is convicted, and what his sentence is.

    He may be an idiot, but there is no reason to believe the batterer actually thought the CCer was about to do something bad. It's much more believable that the batterer knew it was just a man CCing and the batterer was trying to pull one over, fake it, try to make a point, stage an act, etc.

    Well, welcome to reality, you piece of ****.
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  17. #17
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    A pistol is only as useful as the person who carries it is diligent and alert. This was a older gentleman that was attacked by someone almost 20 years younger.

    Most people don't know how to break / evade rear choke holds or full nelson holds, so even if the older man had the a pocket knife or a BUG. It was useless at that point.

    Some people are bat crap crazy, I am guessing this was one of them. The older man was lucky he was not killed.

    FUQ from story,

    "When deputies arrived, they learned that Daniels indeed had a concealed weapons permit. Deputies also learned that Foster never called 911 or alerted store security about his concern that Daniels had a gun in the store, the sheriff’s office said.

    Foster was arrested at the scene and charged with battery.

    Neither Foster or Daniels was injured in the confrontation, the sheriff’s office said."
    Even at his age his SA should have never been let down, but that is what happens with many people who carry. But because the gun is hidden, and supposedly nobody knows it is there, CCers probably let their guard down more than OCers.
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  18. #18
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Battery? The victim was placed in a choke hold...note the use of the word choke. Sounds like a attempt to kill the seasoned citizen.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Battery? The victim was placed in a choke hold...note the use of the word choke. Sounds like a attempt to kill the seasoned citizen.
    Yes, that is at least, at minimum, battery, unwanted touching. Beyond that requires knowledge of intent, mens rea, the purview of the trier of fact.

    LOL "At his age," I am 66 y.o. and, coincidentally carry a Columbia River Knife Technology Carson Design CRKT M16-01Z. I bought a set of Torx drivers 0 - 10, so I can disassemble it for cleaning and sharpening. Now, the seven fasteners need replacing.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-21-2015 at 09:02 AM.
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    Man charged with battery after tackling someone for CCW

    Happened at Walmart of course.


    Brandon, Florida -- A Lithia man has been charged after he tackled another man Tuesday who had a handgun in a holster -- and a permit to carry -- at a Wal-Mart.

    http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/local...mart/22067325/

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    Idiot

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    From True Tales of Self-defense subforum

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  23. #23
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Deputies: Man attacks Walmart customer carrying concealed weapon

    A man was arrested after he attacked a man who had a handgun in a holster and a concealed weapons permit as he walked around a Brandon Walmart on Tuesday morning, the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office said.

    Michael Foster was charged with battery for attacking another customer, Clarence Daniels, at Walmart, 11110 Causeway Blvd, Brandon.

    Just before noon Tuesday, Foster, 43, of Lithia, saw Daniels in the Walmart parking lot in possession of a handgun that was in a holster and under his coat, the sheriff’s office said.

    Foster followed Daniels in the parking lot and into the store. While in the store, Foster attacked Daniels, 62, of Seffner, the sheriff’s office said.

    Foster grabbed Daniels from behind in a choke hold and then took him to the ground, the sheriff’s office said.

    While both men struggled, Foster yelled that Daniels had a gun. Daniels also yelled that he had a permit to legally carry the gun, the sheriff’s office said.


    http://tbo.com/news/crime/deputies-m...150120/?page=1
    About the portion I put in bold for emphasis...

    What's this? A concealed carrier attacked because of his gun? A concealed carrier got "taken out first"?

    Say it isn't so!!!

    Sorry... couldn't resist.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  24. #24
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    I carry a CRKT m16-14zsf ( http://www.crkt.com/M16-14-Z-Desert-...WKS-Combo-Edge ) in my left front pocket at all times I have my pants on.

    The knife has double "flippers" and can be opened on the draw with one hand by snagging the lower flipper on the pocket corner ( and I practice this daily) and I keep it razor sharp. If grabbed from behind I intend to launch what I like to think of as "operation castration" and as the femoral artery runs very shallow in the inner thigh I will make an effort to open that as well.

    I also like to keep the head on a swivel, but no one can maintain 24/7 SA, and it is possible for someone in a store setting to get up close behind you, so have a plan.
    very nice blade. me likey.

    Of course it would be possible for a skilled person to get up close behind me. IMO though it sounds like this was just some idiot being stupid. As paranoid as I am I'd like to think I would notice the person looking at me or moving suspiciously.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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  25. #25
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    About the portion I put in bold for emphasis...

    What's this? A concealed carrier attacked because of his gun? A concealed carrier got "taken out first"?

    Say it isn't so!!!

    Sorry... couldn't resist.
    Yep! That " tacti-cool advantage" ain't all it's cracked to be, now is it.
    I too could not resist.
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