Confirmed attempted guns snatch! On a concealed carrier!

WalkingWolf said:

Deputies: Man attacks Walmart customer carrying concealed weapon

A man was arrested after he attacked a man who had a handgun in a holster and a concealed weapons permit as he walked around a Brandon Walmart on Tuesday morning, the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office said.

Michael Foster was charged with battery for attacking another customer, Clarence Daniels, at Walmart, 11110 Causeway Blvd, Brandon.

Just before noon Tuesday, Foster, 43, of Lithia, saw Daniels in the Walmart parking lot in possession of a handgun that was in a holster and under his coat, the sheriff’s office said.

Foster followed Daniels in the parking lot and into the store. While in the store, Foster attacked Daniels, 62, of Seffner, the sheriff’s office said.

Foster grabbed Daniels from behind in a choke hold and then took him to the ground, the sheriff’s office said.

While both men struggled, Foster yelled that Daniels had a gun. Daniels also yelled that he had a permit to legally carry the gun, the sheriff’s office said.

http://tbo.com/news/crime/deputies-...er-carrying-concealed-weapon-20150120/?page=1

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About the portion I put in bold for emphasis...

What's this? A concealed carrier attacked because of his gun? A concealed carrier got "taken out first"?

Say it isn't so!!! :shocker:

Sorry... couldn't resist.

F350 said:

I carry a CRKT m16-14zsf ( http://www.crkt.com/M16-14-Z-Desert-Special-Forces-Tanto-AutoLAWKS-Combo-Edge ) in my left front pocket at all times I have my pants on.

The knife has double "flippers" and can be opened on the draw with one hand by snagging the lower flipper on the pocket corner ( and I practice this daily) and I keep it razor sharp. If grabbed from behind I intend to launch what I like to think of as "operation castration" and as the femoral artery runs very shallow in the inner thigh I will make an effort to open that as well.

I also like to keep the head on a swivel, but no one can maintain 24/7 SA, and it is possible for someone in a store setting to get up close behind you, so have a plan.

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very nice blade. me likey.

Of course it would be possible for a skilled person to get up close behind me. IMO though it sounds like this was just some idiot being stupid. As paranoid as I am I'd like to think I would notice the person looking at me or moving suspiciously.

Bikenut said:

About the portion I put in bold for emphasis...

What's this? A concealed carrier attacked because of his gun? A concealed carrier got "taken out first"?

Say it isn't so!!! :shocker:

Sorry... couldn't resist.

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Yep! That " tacti-cool advantage" ain't all it's cracked to be, now is it.
I too could not resist.

Now this will be written off by the CC ONLY community as "fluke". We all know that the vast majority of those types are like this "fictional character".

Off sarcasm.
http://youtu.be/ZVDiaYQXBVs

Nightmare said:

Yes, that is at least, at minimum, battery, unwanted touching. Beyond that requires knowledge of intent, mens rea, the purview of the trier of fact.

LOL "At his age," I am 66 y.o. and, coincidentally carry a Columbia River Knife Technology Carson Design CRKT M16-01Z. I bought a set of Torx drivers 0 - 10, so I can disassemble it for cleaning and sharpening. Now, the seven fasteners need replacing.

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$90!..that's about twice what a good knife costs...no thanks. I'll stick to $10 knives with the same features and have nine of them stashed here there and yonder.

That the perpetrator wasn't shot is proof the anti mantra of armed citizens going off at the slightest insult is completely bogus. Not that we needed such proof.

The perp was probably from Mass or Nazi York or New Jersey and trying to escape the horribly cold weather.

77zach said:

That the perpetrator wasn't shot is proof the anti mantra of armed citizens going off at the slightest insult is completely bogus. Not that we needed such proof.

The perp was probably from Mass or Nazi York or New Jersey and trying to escape the horribly cold weather.

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Nope - according to the story he's from Lithia, FL in north west Florida. Just a defender of fascism most likely?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithia,_Florida

This may explain him only being charged with battery? Here in AZ it is a FELONY to even attempt to disarm a LAC, not that the attemptee would live long enough to be charged in most cases

Hmmm, wonder how it would have been diferent if the LAC was a cop? Just throwing it out there...U/C cop, just grabbing some pastries..

77zach said:

The perp was probably from Mass or Nazi York or New Jersey and trying to escape the horribly cold weather.

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FreeInAZ said:

Nope - according to the story he's from Lithia, FL in north west Florida.

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Actually, facts aren't in evidence either way. He could have lived in NYC all his life, until last week when he moved down to Florida and bought a condo in Lithia. And right then he'd have Florida residency and be called a Florida resident.

That he didn't alert the police (and admittedly we don't know if he even had a cellphone) does add a bit of evidence to the supposed 'Ima be a big hero' frame of mind.

Nightmare said:

"The report said Mr. Foster did not call 911 until he tackled the man."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/21/vigilante-arrested-for-tackling-licensed-gunowner-/

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Good catch

Bikenut said:

About the portion I put in bold for emphasis...

What's this? A concealed carrier attacked because of his gun? A concealed carrier got "taken out first"?

Say it isn't so!!! :shocker:

Sorry... couldn't resist.

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And a real shame you didn't resist because there is nothing to suggest this would have been any different had he been CCing. So you at least as petty dancing in this man's troubles as do the anti's who dance in the blood of victims to advance their particular social/political agenda.

According to the photos at this [url-http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/27896784/man-spots-gun-then-tackles-concealed-carry-license-holder]report of the incident[/url] the assailant is a white man while the law abiding citizen carrying gun is a black man. I have to wonder to what extent racism played as much of an effect here as any gun phobia.

I hope nobody sides up with the violent, racist, gun hating assailant just because this time he assaulted the permit holding concealed carrier rather than OCer.

I don't want to be snide. But I do want to make clear that I object to any castigation of the choice to lawfully carry a gun in a discrete manner. Those who most stridently defend carrying long guns in some rather provocative manners should be the very last ones to criticize or judge anyone for choosing to carry discretely, or in any other perfectly peaceful manner. Lack of SA can be judged and learned from. But there is nothing wrong with the chosen manner of carry.


Charles

WalkingWolf said:

Even at his age his SA should have never been let down, but that is what happens with many people who carry. But because the gun is hidden, and supposedly nobody knows it is there, CCers probably let their guard down more than OCers.

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Do you suppose then, that OCers who use mult-level retention holsters "probably let their guard down more than OCers" who use non-retention holsters on the theory that the gun is secure and hard to remove from the holster?

I don't want to be snide. But I do want to make clear that I object to any castigation of the choice to lawfully carry a gun in a discrete manner. Those (not necessarily or just WalkingWolf) who most stridently defend carrying long guns in some rather provocative manners should be the very last ones to criticize or judge anyone for choosing to carry discretely, or in any other perfectly peaceful manner. Lack of SA can be judged and learned from. But there is nothing wrong with the chosen manner of carry.

Charles

utbagpiper said:

And a real shame you didn't resist because there is nothing to suggest this would have been any different had he been CCing. So you at least as petty dancing in this man's troubles as do the anti's who dance in the blood of victims to advance their particular social/political agenda.

According to the photos at this [url-http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/27896784/man-spots-gun-then-tackles-concealed-carry-license-holder]report of the incident[/url] the assailant is a white man while the law abiding citizen carrying gun is a black man. I have to wonder to what extent racism played as much of an effect here as any gun phobia.

I hope nobody sides up with the violent, racist, gun hating assailant just because this time he assaulted the permit holding concealed carrier rather than OCer.

I don't want to be snide. But I do want to make clear that I object to any castigation of the choice to lawfully carry a gun in a discrete manner. Those who most stridently defend carrying long guns in some rather provocative manners should be the very last ones to criticize or judge anyone for choosing to carry discretely, or in any other perfectly peaceful manner. Lack of SA can be judged and learned from. But there is nothing wrong with the chosen manner of carry.


Charles

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It really is a shame YOU couldn't resist. But I have come to expect nothing less. In the interest of making Grapeshot's life easier I'll leave that part right there.

By the way... the guy who was assaulted was CCing....

Vigilante arrested for tackling licensed gunowner in Florida Wal-Mart

Deputies in West Florida arrested a 43-year-old man Tuesday after he tackled a man carrying a concealed weapon in Wal-Mart.
-snip-

utbagpiper said:

According to the photos at this [url-http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/27896784/man-spots-gun-then-tackles-concealed-carry-license-holder]report of the incident[/url] the assailant is a white man while the law abiding citizen carrying gun is a black man. I have to wonder to what extent racism played as much of an effect here as any gun phobia.

I hope nobody sides up with the violent, racist, gun hating assailant just because this time he assaulted the permit holding concealed carrier rather than OCer.

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Now....isn't it a bit of a leap to label the assailant as racist?

Edited to add the part about the guy who was attacked was CCing...

Bikenut said:

It really is a shame YOU couldn't resist. But I have come to expect nothing less. In the interest of making Grapeshot's life easier I'll leave that part right there.

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Let me re-emphasize:

I don't want to be snide. But I do want to make clear that I object to any castigation of the choice to lawfully carry a gun in a discrete manner. Those who most stridently defend carrying long guns in some rather provocative manners should be the very last ones to criticize or judge anyone for choosing to carry discretely, or in any other perfectly peaceful manner. Lack of SA can be judged and learned from. But there is nothing wrong with the chosen manner of carry.

Bikenut said:

Now....isn't it a bit of a leap to label the assailant as racist?

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If you wish to defend ANYTHING that the assailant did, or anything regarding his motivation, be my guest.

Charles

utbagpiper said:

Let me re-emphasize:

I don't want to be snide.-snip-

Originally Posted by Bikenut

Now....isn't it a bit of a leap to label the assailant as racist?

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If you wish to defend ANYTHING that the assailant did, or anything regarding his motivation, be my guest.

Charles

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Charles... I didn't defend anything or anyone. Nice try at twisting and spinning my post hoping to cast me in a negative light......I merely asked if it wasn't a bit of a leap to label the assailant as a racist.

Just because the victim is black and the attacker is white doesn't automatically mean there is a racist motive. Questioning if there is is fine but you stated:

Originally posted by utbagpiper
I hope nobody sides up with the violent, racist, gun hating assailant just because this time he assaulted the permit holding concealed carrier rather than OCer.

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Bold added by me for emphasis....

So now I'll ask what evidence you have that the attacker is, in actuality, a racist?

Bikenut said:

Charles... I didn't defend anything or anyone. Nice try at twisting and spinning my post hoping to cast me in a negative light......I merely asked if it wasn't a bit of a leap to label the assailant as a racist.

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No more of a leap than assuming the assailant hates guns or those who carry them. Maybe he loves guns but believes anyone concealing is up to no good, that the only proper way to carry is to OC for all the world to clearly see.

I don't want to be snide. But I do want to make clear that I object to any castigation of the choice to lawfully carry a gun in a discrete manner. Those who most stridently defend carrying long guns in some rather provocative manners should be the very last ones to criticize or judge anyone for choosing to carry discretely, or in any other perfectly peaceful manner nor to take any joy in any harm that might befall them. Lack of SA can be judged and learned from. But there is nothing wrong with the chosen manner of carry.

I'm not going to give you the fight you seem to be looking for.

Charles

utbagpiper said:

No more of a leap than assuming the assailant hates guns or those who carry them. Maybe he loves guns but believes anyone concealing is up to no good, that the only proper way to carry is to OC for all the world to clearly see.

I don't want to be snide. But I do want to make clear that I object to any castigation of the choice to lawfully carry a gun in a discrete manner. Those who most stridently defend carrying long guns in some rather provocative manners should be the very last ones to criticize or judge anyone for choosing to carry discretely, or in any other perfectly peaceful manner. Lack of SA can be judged and learned from. But there is nothing wrong with the chosen manner of carry.

I'm not going to give you the fight you seem to be looking for.

Charles

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I'm not looking for a fight Charles.... I merely asked you for what evidence you had that supported your statement that the attacker was a racist.

As for castigation of the choice to lawfully carry a gun in a discrete manner... I teased about how OC'ers are derided as going to be the first to be attacked and/or being the first to be taken out but in this case it was a CCer who was attacked/taken out. Apparently you consider that to be castigation.

But I must question why are you injecting long gun carry and labeling it as being "provocative" (twice now) into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with long gun carry?

Look... some idiot attacked a person legally carrying concealed. Shall we let the discussion go on about the incident itself instead of all the snide remarks?

OC for ME said:

$90!..that's about twice what a good knife costs...no thanks. I'll stick to $10 knives with the same features and have nine of them stashed here there and yonder.

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Never said that was what I paid- just posted the link because it had the best pictures. A little judicious inter-net shopping and it can be found for considerably less, I didn't pay near $90 for it. I would have to see the knife (please post link) before I would stake my life on a $10 knife any more than I would stake my life on a $100 gun.

Bikenut said:

I'm not looking for a fight Charles.... I merely asked you for what evidence you had that supported your statement that the attacker was a racist.

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What evidence have you that this had anything to do with CC?

Bikenut said:

I teased about how OC'ers are derided as going to be the first to be attacked and/or being the first to be taken out but in this case it was a CCer who was attacked/taken out. Apparently you consider that to be castigation.

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Given your history, I consider it inappropriate to take any pleasure in a crime being committed against a person lawfully carrying a gun.

And I hear very few actually attacking OCers or claiming that they will be taken out first. Those rare few who do tend to be very vocal. But they are rare. Most objections to OC come not to those who carry in a holster, but in response to incidents such as occurred in the Washington Senate gallery where we had either very poor muzzle control or some deliberate effort to paint others, insertion of magazines, and operating of slides/charging bolts.

Bikenut said:

But I must question why are you injecting long gun carry and labeling it as being "provocative" (twice now) into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with long gun carry?

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I did NOT label long gun carry provocative. I referred to when long guns are carried in a provocative manner. Hand guns can be carried in a provocative manner as well, but rarely if ever see that as there seems to be near universal agreement that a handgun, in hand, is not appropriate in public. But some, such as yourself, seem intent to apply a very different, lower standard of conduct to what constitutes proper and safe carrying of long guns in public.

I bring up long guns because of what I see as your hypocrisy in defending the most provocative of carry modes for long guns (again, not all long gun OC is provocative, but some conduct certainly is) with strident language about how nobody should judge how anyone else carries, and then you turn around and "tease" about concealed carry. That kind of hypocrisy needs to be corrected.

Bikenut said:

Look... some idiot attacked a person legally carrying concealed. Shall we let the discussion go on about the incident itself instead of all the snide remarks?

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That would be great. You'll note my snide remarks were made only in response to a couple of folks who felt free to "tease" about CC. I will happily accept disagreement on the proper way to carry from anyone who accepts that there are proper and improper ways to carry. From any who stridently defend carrying long guns in hand, or racking slides in public, or having zero muzzle control, etc, I consider any judgement against any lawful carry method as hypocrisy worthy of correcting.

Now, what is there left to discuss of this event itself? The need for better SA? Check. The benefits of some training on hand-to-hand techniques? Sure thing. Benefits of a retention holster even if you believe you are concealing? Quite possibly?

Did I miss anything?

Charles

Hey Utah - I don't think he took pleasure in the fact a man got assaulted. I'm pretty sure he was pointing out the flawed premise that: CC gives you a tactical advantage in a SD scenario. As we see here trying to surprise someone after a attack is in progress is not so easy. Honestly this nut may have tried it no matter what modes of carry were used. Who knows?

One thing is certain - he's lucky to be alive!