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Thread: IMPORTANT Question Regarding Smokeless Powder

  1. #1
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    Exclamation IMPORTANT Question Regarding Smokeless Powder

    I am the Legislative Coordinator for the Montana Shooting Sports Association. I'm looking for information on the topic of smokeless powder importation and access. You're right, this is not an OC issue, BUT..... I know this site is chock full of very analytical and intelligent gun enthusiasts, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask this question here, because I'm desperate.

    The MSSA has introduced 15 pro gun bills for this legislative session. We have introduced a Bill "Smokeless Powder, Ammunition and components Manufactured in Montana" and I have been tasked with researching a few things. The Bill is currently in Committee, so I need this info as expediently as possible. You can read about our 2015 Legislation here. SB 122 is the Bill I'm referring to. http://www.mtssa.org/?page_id=158 We propose certain incentives to encourage small-scale production of ammunition components in Montana. That model includes offering liability protection to future producers, providing that such producers qualify for existing state assistance with financing, and will include a 20-year tax amnesty from start of business, which would give up zero current tax income to the state but would provide jobs for Montana.

    SB 122 is currently in committee. The debates will soon begin and we need to know in what countries besides the US smokeless powder (small arms propellant) is manufactured.

    We're especially interested in smaller countries, such as those in central Europe, such as the Czech Republic, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Romania, and more.

    We already know that powder is currently made in Australia, Belgium, Israel, and Sweden. No doubt Russia and China currently make their own.

    What about south America and Africa?

    IMR powders are made in Canada, and Vihtavuori is made in Finland.

    In the US, Hogdon only makes black powder substitutes, not smokeless. All Hogdon smokeless products are imported and relabeled by Hogdon.

    Alliant, in Virginia, has committed its output to the Lake City Arsenal, I believe in Missouri, which only fulfils government contracts, mostly military.

    That leaves the General Dynamics plant in St. Marks, Florida, as the sole remaining manufacturer for domestic supply (Winchester powders and a very few others branded from their bulk production).

    Along with list of countries that manufacture smokeless powder, we also need to know total imports of smokeless powder, and what percentage of it is for civilian market?

    Any input is much appreciated! If you have any idea WHERE I might find this information, please let me know. SB 122 is currently in committee, and I need answers asap.

    Thank You!

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    Looks like you are looking for tax breaks ... you are free to ask I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Looks like you are looking for tax breaks ... you are free to ask I guess.
    Not sure how you thought that up, but nothing could be further from the truth.

    What we're looking for is the capability of producing our own ammunition and smokeless powder. If you read the Bill, you will see that. The tax breaks are because we need to attract these businesses, which is what EVERY state does.

    So, next time, it might be a little better if you could come up with a less snide and more useful response.
    Last edited by MSSA LegCoord; 01-22-2015 at 08:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSSA LegCoord View Post
    Not sure how you thought that up, but nothing could be further from the truth.

    What we're looking for is the capability of producing our own ammunition and smokeless powder. If you read the Bill, you will see that. The tax breaks are because we need to attract these businesses, which is what EVERY state does.

    So, next time, it might be a little better if you could come up with a less snide and more useful response.
    You're new to lobbying I guess.

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    lobbyist?

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You're new to lobbying I guess.
    And how did you think up the idea that I am a lobbyist? Are you huffing paint?

    I'm not a politician, lobbyist or any other professional liar. I'm a ticked off gunner who is doing something about it, instead of sitting around typing snide remarks to other more productive than me.

    Go away. You're wasting my time.

  6. #6
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    How wonderful that you met your new BFF. He grows on you. But then so does fungus.

    we need to know in what countries besides the US smokeless powder (small arms propellant) is manufactured.

    We're especially interested in smaller countries, such as those in central Europe, such as the Czech Republic, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Romania, and more.

    We already know that powder is currently made in Australia, Belgium, Israel, and Sweden. No doubt Russia and China currently make their own.

    What about south America and Africa?

    IMR powders are made in Canada, and Vihtavuori is made in Finland.

    In the US, Hogdon only makes black powder substitutes, not smokeless. All Hogdon smokeless products are imported and relabeled by Hogdon.

    Alliant, in Virginia, has committed its output to the Lake City Arsenal, I believe in Missouri, which only fulfils government contracts, mostly military.

    That leaves the General Dynamics plant in St. Marks, Florida, as the sole remaining manufacturer for domestic supply (Winchester powders and a very few others branded from their bulk production).

    Along with list of countries that manufacture smokeless powder, we also need to know total imports of smokeless powder, and what percentage of it is for civilian market?
    Are you aware that the State and Commerce Departments, as well as the CIA, have publically accessable reports on this and just about every other commercial products imported into the US? Your local Land Grant University has those reports in hard copy - they are in a freaking big room with all the other government publications that Land Grant universities are required to catalog.

    I'm not a Legislative Coordinator or a Lobbyist. Just some guy who has spent about 5 minutes learning how to play with Google. Your lack of prior knowledge about this makes you a suspect entity around here.

    Also, asking OCDO members to do your research for you without offering renumeration is just plain rude.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    How wonderful that you met your new BFF. He grows on you. But then so does fungus.



    Are you aware that the State and Commerce Departments, as well as the CIA, have publically accessable reports on this and just about every other commercial products imported into the US? Your local Land Grant University has those reports in hard copy - they are in a freaking big room with all the other government publications that Land Grant universities are required to catalog.

    I'm not a Legislative Coordinator or a Lobbyist. Just some guy who has spent about 5 minutes learning how to play with Google. Your lack of prior knowledge about this makes you a suspect entity around here.

    Also, asking OCDO members to do your research for you without offering renumeration is just plain rude.

    stay safe.
    Thanks, but I have, in fact, checked the Dept of commerce, Dept of state, atf, etc. I'll check the university.

    I wasn't asking for others to do my research for me. I was asking for input and ideas. I've done plenty of my own research, thank you very much.

    I've been on OCDO for many years now, so I'm used to this crap.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Poor guy starts his post off like this and what does he get in return? Two replies by davidmacbeth.

    I'm used to the fights here on this site. It's crawling. But smokeless powder? Clearly, those two boneheads have only one task at hand. And it has nothing to do with preserving our rights.

    I've been out here dealing with those boneheads for twelve years now. It just doesn't matter anymore. It's like that ambient noise you hear constantly, but you've become so accustomed to it that you can just continue working right through it........

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