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Thread: Utah permit holder stops armed robbery

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    Utah permit holder stops armed robbery

    From KSL news (no registration required), we read of a permit holder in Vernal who stopped an armed robbery at a fast food joint. Female robber had a knife.

    Charles

    Quote Originally Posted by KSL
    [The permit holder] was ordering food at the drive-thru about the same time [as the armed robbery] and noticed the restaurant employee had stopped responding to him.

    The man said he parked his truck and went into the restaurant to finish his order. He said when he made eye contact with an employee, she mouthed the words, "We're being robbed."

    "I went out to my truck and got my gun," the man said.

    When he went back into the restaurant, the man said the woman with the knife turned toward him. He showed her the butt of his gun, he said, and told the woman not to move.

    "She picked up a bag and came at me," the man said. "That's when I pointed my gun at her."

    The man said he was able to gain control of the woman's knife, but continued to hold her at gunpoint. He said he put his gun down as the first officer entered the restaurant to avoid the possibility of being shot.
    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    He's a lucky idiot.
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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    He's a lucky idiot.
    I had the same thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    He's a lucky idiot.
    lol - put down the gun to avoid getting ventilated by cop .. not such an idiot eh?

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    lol - put down the gun to avoid getting ventilated by cop .. not such an idiot eh?
    Smarter then you. You've would've been like "I'm mother****** davidmcbeth!! Non ya laws apply to me better bring body bags!!!!! To legit to quit!!!! (Deleted expletives)" Then they would've all ran away in fear.

    Right? Lol [emoji39]
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    He's a lucky idiot.
    +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    He's a lucky idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    I had the same thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    +1

    So what, in particular, do you think moves him into "idiot" status? Just curious as to what others are thinking, specifically.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    So what, in particular, do you think moves him into "idiot" status? Just curious as to what others are thinking, specifically.

    Charles
    IMO he was trying to be a hero, he had time to go get a gun. And in that time she had not harmed anyone. This was a simple armed robbery, and most nobody is harmed if they give up the personal property. Were you not the one that argued personal property was not enough for lethal force?
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    So what, in particular, do you think moves him into "idiot" status? Just curious as to what others are thinking, specifically.
    He went into an out-of-the-ordinary situation to find out what was going on, WITHOUT the gun he was licensed to carry, which tells me he should know better. = IDIOT

    I see no indication that he was there long enough to know what specific threats he was going to face when he came back. = LUCKY
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    He went into an out-of-the-ordinary situation to find out what was going on, WITHOUT the gun he was licensed to carry, which tells me he should know better. = IDIOT

    I see no indication that he was there long enough to know what specific threats he was going to face when he came back. = LUCKY
    A gun does absolutely no good when in the vehicle when NOT in the vehicle. Plus he returned to the threat, when he was clear of the threat.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Smarter then you. You've would've been like "I'm mother****** davidmcbeth!! Non ya laws apply to me better bring body bags!!!!! To legit to quit!!!! (Deleted expletives)" Then they would've all ran away in fear.

    Right? Lol [emoji39]
    5 coffees on this one? LOL

    Libertarian I am.

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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    IMO he was trying to be a hero, he had time to go get a gun. And in that time she had not harmed anyone. This was a simple armed robbery, and most nobody is harmed if they give up the personal property. Were you not the one that argued personal property was not enough for lethal force?
    If you are not willing to risk your life to help others, that's ok by me. That's a personal choice and one we all have to make.

    But to say someone threatening a person with a knife isn't a deadly threat and can't justify deadly force, I don't buy that, not one bit. In vegas, people get killed in home invasions and robbery just for the heck of it- no reason.

    heck, in utah someone was shot by an officer 2 times in the last 6 months for threatening with a knife/sword.

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    It may be just me, but if I even SEE a weapon on my assailant I'll respond.

    Any talk from him/her telling me what he/she is going to do to me if just "bonus material" if you will...IF they get to finish their most likely expletive-ridden threats.

    Too many times we see on YouTube videos street trash just shooting people (usually convenience store clerks) right up front -- no talk, just shooting and then going to the cash register for the money. I'm not about to wait and see if their threats are serious or not, or, if they really will use that weapon on me or not.

    I take it all @ face value: To me, it's a clear and present danger.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-27-2015 at 02:47 AM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Sounds like a good man to me. I don't think I would have done it, but I applaud his bravery.
    It's easy to say "most robberies won't turn violent if you just comply with the crook" but some people still get killed or injured even if complying.
    If your willing to play those odds I don't know why you even carry.
    It's quite possible he saved some lives. He most probably saved more people getting robbed down the road.
    My hat goes off to him.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    If you are not willing to risk your life to help others, that's ok by me. That's a personal choice and one we all have to make.

    But to say someone threatening a person with a knife isn't a deadly threat and can't justify deadly force, I don't buy that, not one bit. In vegas, people get killed in home invasions and robbery just for the heck of it- no reason.

    heck, in utah someone was shot by an officer 2 times in the last 6 months for threatening with a knife/sword.
    Armed robberies happen every day, it sucks, but most times the robber wants one thing, property. In this case if the robber was going to kill she would have done it while he was retrieving his gun. From videos of murderers they usually do it immediately. He WAS/IS not a police officer, not trained to rescue the sheep, he risked escalating the situation by RETURNING when he was in no danger himself. May sound heroic, but self made heroes then to actually get people killed. If he had been armed and in the business at the time, AND felt threatened I might consider him otherwise. A armed robbery with a knife and a home invasion are two completely different crimes. There are more reported injuries from home invasions.

    And then to top all of that off, when the idiot wannabe hero when he was approached by the robber did not have the balls to shoot. Had she stabbed him and got his gun, then she could have gone on a rampage. As she already would have stepped over that line into murder. Had he left her alone, she would have got some cash, he would have been able to be a good witness to provide info to the police to catch her at a later SAFER time.

    IDIOT!

    Hereos endanger the community, that is why vigilantes are not usually looked highly upon. When they screw up they bring scorn on the rest of us.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Armed robberies happen every day, it sucks, but most times the robber wants one thing, property. In this case if the robber was going to kill she would have done it while he was retrieving his gun. From videos of murderers they usually do it immediately. He WAS/IS not a police officer, not trained to rescue the sheep, he risked escalating the situation by RETURNING when he was in no danger himself. May sound heroic, but self made heroes then to actually get people killed. If he had been armed and in the business at the time, AND felt threatened I might consider him otherwise. A armed robbery with a knife and a home invasion are two completely different crimes. There are more reported injuries from home invasions.

    And then to top all of that off, when the idiot wannabe hero when he was approached by the robber did not have the balls to shoot. Had she stabbed him and got his gun, then she could have gone on a rampage. As she already would have stepped over that line into murder. Had he left her alone, she would have got some cash, he would have been able to be a good witness to provide info to the police to catch her at a later SAFER time.

    IDIOT!

    Hereos endanger the community, that is why vigilantes are not usually looked highly upon. When they screw up they bring scorn on the rest of us.
    That's pretty good armchair quarterbacking.

    I'm not saying he did nothing wrong. But a threat to human life is a threat to human life. I'm not gambling on a lady crazy enough to threaten with a knife not to follow through.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    That's pretty good armchair quarterbacking.

    I'm not saying he did nothing wrong. But a threat to human life is a threat to human life. I'm not gambling on a lady crazy enough to threaten with a knife not to follow through.
    But was it a threat to someone's life, or just a armed robbery. Would YOU step in with your firearm to stop a LEO clearly beating a person for no justification? It has never happened that I know of, the only people who have stepped in are people with camera phones. As much as it seem as these incidents happen out in the open where the hell are the heroes with firearms?

    If there are real consequences to being a hero, heroes suddenly do not become heroes. There are times to step in, when actual physical harm is being done, such as the carrier who stopped a man from beating a girl. There was actual physical harm.

    And the biggest thing is if you know you do not have the balls to pull the trigger STAY THE HELL OUT OF IT.

    If you really want to save the world, get a camera. Leave the policing to the police.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-27-2015 at 11:35 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    But was it a threat to someone's life, or just a armed robbery. Would YOU step in with your firearm to stop a LEO clearly beating a person for no justification? It has never happened that I know of, the only people who have stepped in are people with camera phones. As much as it seem as these incidents happen out in the open where the hell are the heroes with firearms?

    If there are real consequences to being a hero, heroes suddenly do not become heroes. There are times to step in, when actual physical harm is being done, such as the carrier who stopped a man from beating a girl. There was actual physical harm.

    And the biggest thing is if you know you do not have the balls to pull the trigger STAY THE HELL OUT OF IT.
    Threatening someone's life with a knife is a threat to someone's life.

    She walked in and threatened someone's life with and knife. I'm not second guessing a threat on life.

    On the other hand....I agree with not trying to be a hero. I just put the line in a different place than you do.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    Threatening someone's life with a knife is a threat to someone's life.

    She walked in and threatened someone's life with and knife. I'm not second guessing a threat on life.

    On the other hand....I agree with not trying to be a hero. I just put the line in a different place than you do.
    Would you step in if a police officer was assaulting a citizen, and possibly seriously injuring them?
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Would you step in if a police officer was assaulting a citizen, and possibly seriously injuring them?
    Unjustified threat to life, hell yeah. Fistfight or subdue? No way.

    A fight is not a knife threat

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    Unjustified threat to life, hell yeah. Fistfight or subdue? No way.

    A fight is not a knife threat
    When you actually intervene when a agent of the government is assaulting a person, get back to me. Until then it is such a rare event that I have never seen it happen. I will give my kudos to those heroes that stick their neck out, without fanfare, and real implications of harm. The people with video cameras. Being a hero is not a good reason to carry a gun, it is a urine poor excuse.

    It is also rare when there is actually shooting going on for non LEO heroes to step in when they are not personally threatened. Self made heroes become heroes not because of circumstance, but because they look or wait for circumstance to become a hero. They are dangerous fools/idiots.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-27-2015 at 11:48 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    When you actually intervene when a agent of the government is assaulting a person, get back to me. Until then it is such a rare event that I have never seen it happen. I will give my kudos to those heroes that stick their neck out, without fanfare, and real implications of harm. The people with video cameras. Being a hero is not a good reason to carry a gun, it is a urine poor excuse.

    It is also rare when there is actually shooting going on for non LEO heroes to step in when they are not personally threatened. Self made heroes become heroes not because of circumstance, but because they look or wait for circumstance to become a hero. They are dangerous fools/idiots.
    The cop issue is a red herring. This isn't about a cop assaulting someone, this thread is about a woman threatening someone's life with a knife.

    I get the point, but that isn't the thread.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    The cop issue is a red herring. This isn't about a cop assaulting someone, this thread is about a woman threatening someone's life with a knife.

    I get the point, but that isn't the thread.
    NO it is not, either you are a real hero or you are not. Stepping in when you know the circumstances are limited to cause YOU consequences is not a hero. Doing without the intention of fully committing to it, and actually jeopardizing lives is a MORON.

    That is why so few people do it when it does not concern them, smart people. That is why in very few cases of a active shooter do the LAC rarely take a shot. When you think you are going to be the hero you could end up dead, or get others killed. ESPECIALLY if you are not committed to going the full Monty.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    NO it is not, either you are a real hero or you are not. Stepping in when you know the circumstances are limited to cause YOU consequences is not a hero. Doing without the intention of fully committing to it, and actually jeopardizing lives is a MORON.

    That is why so few people do it when it does not concern them, smart people. That is why in very few cases of a active shooter do the LAC rarely take a shot. When you think you are going to be the hero you could end up dead, or get others killed. ESPECIALLY if you are not committed to going the full Monty.
    It isn't about a general statement, this is a specific situation. And I'm telling you, if I see someone that is threatening to kill someone defenseless and I can intervene, and I accurately judge the situation for what it is, I will intervene. Some wont. That's ok. It's not about being an hero. It's being an sympathetic human being that values life.
    Last edited by J_dazzle23; 01-27-2015 at 12:25 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    It isn't about a general statement, this is a specific situation. And I'm telling you, if I see someone that is threatening to kill someone defenseless and I can intervene, and I accurately judge the situation for what it is, I will intervene. Some wont. That's ok. It's not about being an hero. It's being an sympathetic human being that values life.
    Good luck with that, let us know when you become a hero, please provide cites?
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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