Utah permit holder stops armed robbery

utbagpiper · Jan 26, 2015

From KSL news (no registration required), we read of a permit holder in Vernal who stopped an armed robbery at a fast food joint. Female robber had a knife.

Charles

KSL said:
[The permit holder] was ordering food at the drive-thru about the same time [as the armed robbery] and noticed the restaurant employee had stopped responding to him.

The man said he parked his truck and went into the restaurant to finish his order. He said when he made eye contact with an employee, she mouthed the words, "We're being robbed."

"I went out to my truck and got my gun," the man said.

When he went back into the restaurant, the man said the woman with the knife turned toward him. He showed her the butt of his gun, he said, and told the woman not to move.

"She picked up a bag and came at me," the man said. "That's when I pointed my gun at her."

The man said he was able to gain control of the woman's knife, but continued to hold her at gunpoint. He said he put his gun down as the first officer entered the restaurant to avoid the possibility of being shot.

Charles

MAC702 · Jan 26, 2015

He's a lucky idiot.

ron73440 · Jan 26, 2015

MAC702 said:
He's a lucky idiot.

I had the same thought.

davidmcbeth · Jan 26, 2015

MAC702 said:
He's a lucky idiot.

lol - put down the gun to avoid getting ventilated by cop .. not such an idiot eh?

Primus · Jan 26, 2015

davidmcbeth said:
lol - put down the gun to avoid getting ventilated by cop .. not such an idiot eh?

Smarter then you. You've would've been like "I'm mother****** davidmcbeth!! Non ya laws apply to me better bring body bags!!!!! To legit to quit!!!! (Deleted expletives)" Then they would've all ran away in fear.

Right? Lol [emoji39]

WalkingWolf · Jan 26, 2015

MAC702 said:
He's a lucky idiot.

+1

utbagpiper · Jan 26, 2015

MAC702 said:
He's a lucky idiot.

ron73440 said:
I had the same thought.

WalkingWolf said:
+1

So what, in particular, do you think moves him into "idiot" status? Just curious as to what others are thinking, specifically.

Charles

WalkingWolf · Jan 26, 2015

utbagpiper said:
So what, in particular, do you think moves him into "idiot" status? Just curious as to what others are thinking, specifically.

Charles

IMO he was trying to be a hero, he had time to go get a gun. And in that time she had not harmed anyone. This was a simple armed robbery, and most nobody is harmed if they give up the personal property. Were you not the one that argued personal property was not enough for lethal force?

MAC702 · Jan 26, 2015

utbagpiper said:
So what, in particular, do you think moves him into "idiot" status? Just curious as to what others are thinking, specifically.

He went into an out-of-the-ordinary situation to find out what was going on, WITHOUT the gun he was licensed to carry, which tells me he should know better. = IDIOT

I see no indication that he was there long enough to know what specific threats he was going to face when he came back. = LUCKY

WalkingWolf · Jan 26, 2015

MAC702 said:
He went into an out-of-the-ordinary situation to find out what was going on, WITHOUT the gun he was licensed to carry, which tells me he should know better. = IDIOT

I see no indication that he was there long enough to know what specific threats he was going to face when he came back. = LUCKY

A gun does absolutely no good when in the vehicle when NOT in the vehicle. Plus he returned to the threat, when he was clear of the threat.

davidmcbeth · Jan 27, 2015

Primus said:
Smarter then you. You've would've been like "I'm mother****** davidmcbeth!! Non ya laws apply to me better bring body bags!!!!! To legit to quit!!!! (Deleted expletives)" Then they would've all ran away in fear.

Right? Lol [emoji39]

5 coffees on this one? LOL

Libertarian I am.

J_dazzle23 · Jan 27, 2015

WalkingWolf said:
IMO he was trying to be a hero, he had time to go get a gun. And in that time she had not harmed anyone. This was a simple armed robbery, and most nobody is harmed if they give up the personal property. Were you not the one that argued personal property was not enough for lethal force?

If you are not willing to risk your life to help others, that's ok by me. That's a personal choice and one we all have to make.

But to say someone threatening a person with a knife isn't a deadly threat and can't justify deadly force, I don't buy that, not one bit. In vegas, people get killed in home invasions and robbery just for the heck of it- no reason.

heck, in utah someone was shot by an officer 2 times in the last 6 months for threatening with a knife/sword.

cloudcroft · Jan 27, 2015

It may be just me, but if I even SEE a weapon on my assailant I'll respond.

Any talk from him/her telling me what he/she is going to do to me if just "bonus material" if you will...IF they get to finish their most likely expletive-ridden threats.

Too many times we see on YouTube videos street trash just shooting people (usually convenience store clerks) right up front -- no talk, just shooting and then going to the cash register for the money. I'm not about to wait and see if their threats are serious or not, or, if they really will use that weapon on me or not.

I take it all @ face value: To me, it's a clear and present danger.

twoskinsonemanns · Jan 27, 2015

Sounds like a good man to me. I don't think I would have done it, but I applaud his bravery.
It's easy to say "most robberies won't turn violent if you just comply with the crook" but some people still get killed or injured even if complying.
If your willing to play those odds I don't know why you even carry.
It's quite possible he saved some lives. He most probably saved more people getting robbed down the road.
My hat goes off to him.

WalkingWolf · Jan 27, 2015

J_dazzle23 said:
If you are not willing to risk your life to help others, that's ok by me. That's a personal choice and one we all have to make.

But to say someone threatening a person with a knife isn't a deadly threat and can't justify deadly force, I don't buy that, not one bit. In vegas, people get killed in home invasions and robbery just for the heck of it- no reason.

heck, in utah someone was shot by an officer 2 times in the last 6 months for threatening with a knife/sword.

Armed robberies happen every day, it sucks, but most times the robber wants one thing, property. In this case if the robber was going to kill she would have done it while he was retrieving his gun. From videos of murderers they usually do it immediately. He WAS/IS not a police officer, not trained to rescue the sheep, he risked escalating the situation by RETURNING when he was in no danger himself. May sound heroic, but self made heroes then to actually get people killed. If he had been armed and in the business at the time, AND felt threatened I might consider him otherwise. A armed robbery with a knife and a home invasion are two completely different crimes. There are more reported injuries from home invasions.

And then to top all of that off, when the idiot wannabe hero when he was approached by the robber did not have the balls to shoot. Had she stabbed him and got his gun, then she could have gone on a rampage. As she already would have stepped over that line into murder. Had he left her alone, she would have got some cash, he would have been able to be a good witness to provide info to the police to catch her at a later SAFER time.

IDIOT!

Hereos endanger the community, that is why vigilantes are not usually looked highly upon. When they screw up they bring scorn on the rest of us.

J_dazzle23 · Jan 27, 2015

WalkingWolf said:
Armed robberies happen every day, it sucks, but most times the robber wants one thing, property. In this case if the robber was going to kill she would have done it while he was retrieving his gun. From videos of murderers they usually do it immediately. He WAS/IS not a police officer, not trained to rescue the sheep, he risked escalating the situation by RETURNING when he was in no danger himself. May sound heroic, but self made heroes then to actually get people killed. If he had been armed and in the business at the time, AND felt threatened I might consider him otherwise. A armed robbery with a knife and a home invasion are two completely different crimes. There are more reported injuries from home invasions.

And then to top all of that off, when the idiot wannabe hero when he was approached by the robber did not have the balls to shoot. Had she stabbed him and got his gun, then she could have gone on a rampage. As she already would have stepped over that line into murder. Had he left her alone, she would have got some cash, he would have been able to be a good witness to provide info to the police to catch her at a later SAFER time.

IDIOT!

Hereos endanger the community, that is why vigilantes are not usually looked highly upon. When they screw up they bring scorn on the rest of us.

That's pretty good armchair quarterbacking.

I'm not saying he did nothing wrong. But a threat to human life is a threat to human life. I'm not gambling on a lady crazy enough to threaten with a knife not to follow through.

WalkingWolf · Jan 27, 2015

J_dazzle23 said:
That's pretty good armchair quarterbacking.

I'm not saying he did nothing wrong. But a threat to human life is a threat to human life. I'm not gambling on a lady crazy enough to threaten with a knife not to follow through.

But was it a threat to someone's life, or just a armed robbery. Would YOU step in with your firearm to stop a LEO clearly beating a person for no justification? It has never happened that I know of, the only people who have stepped in are people with camera phones. As much as it seem as these incidents happen out in the open where the hell are the heroes with firearms?

If there are real consequences to being a hero, heroes suddenly do not become heroes. There are times to step in, when actual physical harm is being done, such as the carrier who stopped a man from beating a girl. There was actual physical harm.

And the biggest thing is if you know you do not have the balls to pull the trigger STAY THE HELL OUT OF IT.

If you really want to save the world, get a camera. Leave the policing to the police.

J_dazzle23 · Jan 27, 2015

WalkingWolf said:
But was it a threat to someone's life, or just a armed robbery. Would YOU step in with your firearm to stop a LEO clearly beating a person for no justification? It has never happened that I know of, the only people who have stepped in are people with camera phones. As much as it seem as these incidents happen out in the open where the hell are the heroes with firearms?

If there are real consequences to being a hero, heroes suddenly do not become heroes. There are times to step in, when actual physical harm is being done, such as the carrier who stopped a man from beating a girl. There was actual physical harm.

And the biggest thing is if you know you do not have the balls to pull the trigger STAY THE HELL OUT OF IT.

Threatening someone's life with a knife is a threat to someone's life.

She walked in and threatened someone's life with and knife. I'm not second guessing a threat on life.

On the other hand....I agree with not trying to be a hero. I just put the line in a different place than you do.

WalkingWolf · Jan 27, 2015

J_dazzle23 said:
Threatening someone's life with a knife is a threat to someone's life.

She walked in and threatened someone's life with and knife. I'm not second guessing a threat on life.

On the other hand....I agree with not trying to be a hero. I just put the line in a different place than you do.

Would you step in if a police officer was assaulting a citizen, and possibly seriously injuring them?

J_dazzle23 · Jan 27, 2015

WalkingWolf said:
Would you step in if a police officer was assaulting a citizen, and possibly seriously injuring them?

Unjustified threat to life, hell yeah. Fistfight or subdue? No way.

A fight is not a knife threat

Utah permit holder stops armed robbery

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