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Rules of carry at the VA State Capitol area

A

AtackDuck

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
214
Location
King George, Virginia, USA
I am in a bit of a disagreement over carry rules of the Capitol (area & buildings), with a "reporter" of the Times Dispatch. My google foo is very weak and the searches on the forum do not turn up anything really definitively to answer the question: "what are the rules?" Any help is appreciated!!
 
H

hafnhaf

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
230
Location
Williamsburg, VA
my wife and i went on a capitol tour yesterday. while standing in line for the metal detector i asked the police officer what the rules were on weapons. he asked what type of weapon and i said a gun. he asked if i had a CCP, which I showed him. he asked where the gun was and i pointed to my back pocket. he said you're fine, you just can't go on the Senate floor or gallery while the Senate is in session. they were already gone for the day, so no problem. he also said that next time, dont put the gun in the xray bowl with all the keys and loose change. since they already know about it you can just keep it in your pocket/holster/whatever. then we had a chat about kel-tecs and how i liked mine. nice guy!

as for the General Assembly building, show a CCP and you are good to go.

outside the buildings, no issues.
 
wrearick

wrearick

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Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
Before you get a ton of posts about "It's not a CCP, in Virginia it is a CHP (Concealed handgun Permit)" [which in "most" circumstances is more restrictive than CWPs and CCPs so you better know the difference] let me put the question a different way....

It is important to call things what they are because words in this arena do have meaning. Does anyone have knowledge or even a feel for the level of knowledge the capital police have on reciprocity? If you have a valid "permit" from another state can you still carry in the areas we are discussing? Does it have to be from a state that Virginia "recognizes" or will they accept any "permit"? Do they know which states Virginia recognizes?
 
Last edited:
skidmark

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
wrearick said:
Before you get a ton of posts about "It's not a CCP, in Virginia it is a CHP (Concealed handgun Permit)" [which in "most" circumstances is more restrictive than CWPs and CCPs so you better know the difference] let me put the question a different way....

It is important to call things what they are because words in this arena do have meaning. Does anyone have knowledge or even a feel for the level of knowledge the capital police have on reciprocity? If you have a valid "permit" from another state can you still carry in the areas we are discussing? Does it have to be from a state that Virginia "recognizes" or will they accept any "permit"? Do they know which states Virginia recognizes?
Click to expand...

1 - The "rules" come from a meeting of the Joint House/Senate Committee held several years ago. There is quite some disagreement about if that meeting resulted in an ultimately enforcable rule as the matter does not appear in the published Rules of either house. A few folks here have saved a copy of a copy of the sheet of notebook paper that recorded the question and the vote.

1a - The Joint House/Senate Committee makes the rules for the General Assembly Building and each body makes rules for their respective chambers. That's why you can carry in the House but not in the Senate.

The Capitol Square grounds and the Governor's Mansion are under the jurisdiction of the Department of General Services which is in the Executive branch. http://dgs.virginia.gov/CapitolSquareComplex/tabid/127/Default.aspx Bet your newspper correspondent didn't know that.:shocker:

2 - I'm not volunteering to be the test case, and my gut tells me that even if I could "prove" the rule was unofficial and not according to Hoyle the courts would say the separation of powers thing keeps them from getting in the middle of it.

3 - The Capitol Poloce seem willing to accept any valid and unexpired permit from any jurisdiction. I've seen them accept a Maryland permit so reciprocity does not seem to be a concen. If they ever wondered what other states' permits are accepted they could look it up, so there is no real need for them to "know" it off the top of their head.

I suggest you resolve your disagreement with the newspaper person by challenging them to produce a hard copy of whatever it is they say the rules are supposed to be. Keep in mind #1 and #1a above and challenge them to prove that loaded OC/CC (your choice) with a valid permit in the GAB is not the way things are supposed to be. Then you can screw with their head about the Capitol Square grounds.

stay safe.
 
A

AtackDuck

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
214
Location
King George, Virginia, USA
skidmark said:
1 - The "rules" come from a meeting of the Joint House/Senate Committee held several years ago. There is quite some disagreement about if that meeting resulted in an ultimately enforcable rule as the matter does not appear in the published Rules of either house. A few folks here have saved a copy of a copy of the sheet of notebook paper that recorded the question and the vote.

1a - The Joint House/Senate Committee makes the rules for the General Assembly Building and each body makes rules for their respective chambers. That's why you can carry in the House but not in the Senate.

The Capitol Square grounds and the Governor's Mansion are under the jurisdiction of the Department of General Services which is in the Executive branch. http://dgs.virginia.gov/CapitolSquareComplex/tabid/127/Default.aspx Bet your newspper correspondent didn't know that.:shocker:

2 - I'm not volunteering to be the test case, and my gut tells me that even if I could "prove" the rule was unofficial and not according to Hoyle the courts would say the separation of powers thing keeps them from getting in the middle of it.

3 - The Capitol Poloce seem willing to accept any valid and unexpired permit from any jurisdiction. I've seen them accept a Maryland permit so reciprocity does not seem to be a concen. If they ever wondered what other states' permits are accepted they could look it up, so there is no real need for them to "know" it off the top of their head.

I suggest you resolve your disagreement with the newspaper person by challenging them to produce a hard copy of whatever it is they say the rules are supposed to be. Keep in mind #1 and #1a above and challenge them to prove that loaded OC/CC (your choice) with a valid permit in the GAB is not the way things are supposed to be. Then you can screw with their head about the Capitol Square grounds.

stay safe.
Click to expand...

That's what I was hoping for skid. Thanks a bunch! I had found the House and Senate "rules" and found them wanting. Was unaware of Executive Branch jurisdiction, but had found the link and found -- nothing. The article was written by Sean Gorman and his reply to me has been cordial and professional. Most of what he wrote (on the rules) was based on an interview with the Capitol Police.
I did challenge him to find how many incidents in Capitol involved guns and compare that to flags/banners on poles/sticks, over the last 20 years. :p
 
skidmark

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
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Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
AtackDuck said:
That's what I was hoping for skid. Thanks a bunch! I had found the House and Senate "rules" and found them wanting. Was unaware of Executive Branch jurisdiction, but had found the link and found -- nothing. The article was written by Sean Gorman and his reply to me has been cordial and professional. Most of what he wrote (on the rules) was based on an interview with the Capitol Police.
I did challenge him to find how many incidents in Capitol involved guns and compare that to flags/banners on poles/sticks, over the last 20 years. :p
Click to expand...

But the prohibition on poles and sticks is an unofficial one made up by the Capitol Polce a few years ago when some mobette (both as in a small mob and as in a female member of said mob) started challenging the cops to cuff and stuff her. She had apparently seen a few too many kung fu movies, not realizing that cops carrying concave-to-you riot shields can easily smother any stick-flailing fool. They sort of played that by ear until one of the Tea Party gatherings when they were never told or encouraged by anyone to "get those damn banners away from where the TV cameras can see them".

As for incidents in the GAB involving guns - ask him which person shot their own bullet-resistant vest and what the explanation offered was.:uhoh: Regarding the Capitol (where the House of Delegates and the Senate meet in their respective chambers) ask how far back he is going there's a doozy of a chip in the frieze in one of those rooms. (not gonna tell you which one - you go look it up and then call the tour guides who seem to be among the few who know) Then ask him who put it there. And what the provocation was.

stay safe.
 
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