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Thread: We are doomed.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    We are doomed.

    I’m very depressed today. Here are three reasons why:

    1. One of my aviation forums included a link to this story about a fighter jet “buzzing” Cal Berkely: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...rother-at-cal/ The Navy is investigating, and obviously low-altitude antics over populated areas are a big no-no. But what caught my eye was this near the end of the article:

    A local resident identified as JG wrote: “What happened this afternoon terrified me and my children. They were in their classrooms at BHS and Longfellow the the plane [sic] screamed over their heads. In my younger child’s class, children began screaming out of fear.”
    Seriously? There are two ways to interpret JG’s statement, and both of them are pathetic. Either JG is exaggerating/lying to justify her outrage, or she and/or her kids’ teachers have failed to properly teach her children how to react to unexpected stimuli. When I was a kid, a fighter jet roaring over my first-grade classroom would’ve been met with cries of “Cool!”--at least from most of the boys. So much for “Jet noise—the sound of freedom.”

    2. One of my wife’s friends is leading a protest movement against an “active shooter” drill at her kids’ school. She thinks it’s horrible that the school would do this and terrify her kids. (Her answer, of course, is to outlaw all guns. That will fix everything.) My wife argued that, as sad as it is, school shootings are a real-world threat these days, and ignoring that reality won’t make it go away. A calm, reasoned talk with the kids stating that it’s very unlikely (just like a fire or tornado) and preparing for it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen would probably make the kids OK. And somehow, fire drills, tornado drills, and even baby boomers’ “duck and cover” drills are not nearly so horrifying to this woman. My wife has tried to point out the many fallacies (how is the remote possibility of an isolated shooting more terrifying than the remote possibility of total nuclear Armageddon?), but her friend has her indignant hysteria field at full power and no logic can penetrate it.

    There’s no telling in these two cases if the kids were genuinely terrified, or they just reacted to the terror displayed by the so-called “adults” in their lives. But apparently, these “adults” never learned to cope with the reality that there are dangers and unpleasantness in the world, and now they’re passing their handicap on to their kids. Nobody’s teaching them to pull their boots on, face their fears, and get on with their lives, because there’s no magic fairy dust that will guarantee a pleasant, comfortable life.

    3. Yesterday I listened to a call-in radio show discussing Florida’s proposed legislation to allow concealed carry on college campuses. The host was remarkably unbiased, and the guest (a law professor) discussed the current state of affairs and the pros and cons of the issue very frankly. Several of the callers were “horrified, just horrified” that anyone would even consider this, that it was being discussed at all. That was the sum total of their argument; once they decided they were horrified they consciously or unconsciously ruled out any further consideration of the case.

    IMHO, these are all illustrations of how many Americans no longer value self-reliance, independence, and rational thought. It really saddens me that American society has fallen so far. Our ancestors took risks. They left their homes and crossed the ocean in tiny wooden ships to live in the wilderness. They settled the west with only what a Conestoga wagon could carry. No health care, no internet, no social security. Now we’re nothing but coddled children, afraid of everything. I knew the “American Empire” would fall someday, but I had no idea it would come so soon.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

  2. #2
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I enjoyed reading your post. I agree with you.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    fighter jets rock

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    fighter jets rock


    Cheer up, Eeyore.
    Last edited by The Truth; 01-29-2015 at 12:51 PM.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    fighter jets rock
    Not as sweet as a B-52 taking off in 60-100 MPH winds ... fighters cannot do that.

    1,2 engines ? Try 8 mojoman !

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Saw that article too - was sorry that they didn't bomb and strafe Bezerkeley. Brings back fond memories of WWRRD - what would Ronald Reagan do? Send in the national guard!!!


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Not as sweet as a B-52 taking off in 60-100 MPH winds ... fighters cannot do that.

    1,2 engines ? Try 8 mojoman !
    My uncle, Lt Col Allen B. Cotton, was unit commander of 32 AIR REFUELING SQUADRON (AMC) in 1961 - said it was the greatest aircraft he ever flew. http://www.afhra.af.mil/factsheets/f...t.asp?id=10195
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Not as sweet as a B-52 taking off in 60-100 MPH winds ... fighters cannot do that.
    Neither can a B-52. That's one of the two aircraft I flew in the Air Force.

    Everything has limits, including the mighty BUFF.
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I wasn't able to find published crosswind/tailwind capabilities, but I note that all B-52 landing bogies are steerable, and this impressive video of a B-52 ~20° crab https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCUHQ_-l6Qg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94AcSHpcZbI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mwSTfA2_wU

    http://www.skilledpilots.com/video-t...on-the-runway/
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
    Regular Member MNMGoneShooting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    I’m very depressed today. Here are three reasons why:

    1. One of my aviation forums included a link to this story about a fighter jet “buzzing” Cal Berkely: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...rother-at-cal/ The Navy is investigating, and obviously low-altitude antics over populated areas are a big no-no. But what caught my eye was this near the end of the article:



    Seriously? There are two ways to interpret JG’s statement, and both of them are pathetic. Either JG is exaggerating/lying to justify her outrage, or she and/or her kids’ teachers have failed to properly teach her children how to react to unexpected stimuli. When I was a kid, a fighter jet roaring over my first-grade classroom would’ve been met with cries of “Cool!”--at least from most of the boys. So much for “Jet noise—the sound of freedom.”

    2. One of my wife’s friends is leading a protest movement against an “active shooter” drill at her kids’ school. She thinks it’s horrible that the school would do this and terrify her kids. (Her answer, of course, is to outlaw all guns. That will fix everything.) My wife argued that, as sad as it is, school shootings are a real-world threat these days, and ignoring that reality won’t make it go away. A calm, reasoned talk with the kids stating that it’s very unlikely (just like a fire or tornado) and preparing for it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen would probably make the kids OK. And somehow, fire drills, tornado drills, and even baby boomers’ “duck and cover” drills are not nearly so horrifying to this woman. My wife has tried to point out the many fallacies (how is the remote possibility of an isolated shooting more terrifying than the remote possibility of total nuclear Armageddon?), but her friend has her indignant hysteria field at full power and no logic can penetrate it.

    There’s no telling in these two cases if the kids were genuinely terrified, or they just reacted to the terror displayed by the so-called “adults” in their lives. But apparently, these “adults” never learned to cope with the reality that there are dangers and unpleasantness in the world, and now they’re passing their handicap on to their kids. Nobody’s teaching them to pull their boots on, face their fears, and get on with their lives, because there’s no magic fairy dust that will guarantee a pleasant, comfortable life.

    3. Yesterday I listened to a call-in radio show discussing Florida’s proposed legislation to allow concealed carry on college campuses. The host was remarkably unbiased, and the guest (a law professor) discussed the current state of affairs and the pros and cons of the issue very frankly. Several of the callers were “horrified, just horrified” that anyone would even consider this, that it was being discussed at all. That was the sum total of their argument; once they decided they were horrified they consciously or unconsciously ruled out any further consideration of the case.

    IMHO, these are all illustrations of how many Americans no longer value self-reliance, independence, and rational thought. It really saddens me that American society has fallen so far. Our ancestors took risks. They left their homes and crossed the ocean in tiny wooden ships to live in the wilderness. They settled the west with only what a Conestoga wagon could carry. No health care, no internet, no social security. Now we’re nothing but coddled children, afraid of everything. I knew the “American Empire” would fall someday, but I had no idea it would come so soon.
    The wind blows over 30mph; the children "are horrified!"
    A tractor-trailer upshifts for engine braking; the children "cower in fear"
    A humming bird accidentally hits a window; the children are placed in a corner until the "all safe" is called
    Miley Cyrus video comes on TV; the children and adults say "Cool!"

    The ONLY time I can remember we had to worry about "cowering" was during the school-drills for Russia attack (like our desk would save us from THE bomb).

    And that was when:
    - I could get up at 7am and hit the neighborhood until dark
    - I could stay at home alone at 5 years old
    - I could play with my BB gun without worrying about getting "called in"
    - I could have playing cards in the spoke of my bike without "causing alarm"

    Fully agree with OP. Sickening - our ancestors are saying, "Huh?" to their g-g-g-g-grandchildren.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNMGoneShooting View Post
    The wind blows over 30mph; the children "are horrified!"
    A tractor-trailer upshifts for engine braking; the children "cower in fear"
    A humming bird accidentally hits a window; the children are placed in a corner until the "all safe" is called
    Miley Cyrus video comes on TV; the children and adults say "Cool!"

    The ONLY time I can remember we had to worry about "cowering" was during the school-drills for Russia attack (like our desk would save us from THE bomb).

    And that was when:
    - I could get up at 7am and hit the neighborhood until dark
    - I could stay at home alone at 5 years old
    - I could play with my BB gun without worrying about getting "called in"
    - I could have playing cards in the spoke of my bike without "causing alarm"

    Fully agree with OP. Sickening - our ancestors are saying, "Huh?" to their g-g-g-g-grandchildren.
    So you are the problem. Figured it was someone that I knew, but never would have guessed you
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I wasn't able to find published crosswind/tailwind capabilities, but I note that all B-52 landing bogies are steerable, and this impressive video of a B-52 ~20° crab.
    Good guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Fairford is a FUN TDY location. I flew that tail number about 18 years before that video was taken.

    All those electronic displays are hilarious! We didn't have 'em. Just the EVS screens, which we largely ignored during landings as they didn't provide any significant information.

    Quote Originally Posted by MNMGoneShooting View Post
    The ONLY time I can remember we had to worry about "cowering" was during the school-drills for Russia attack (like our desk would save us from THE bomb).
    Wasn't designed to. Hiding under desks helps protect you from falling lights, ceiling tiles, bricks, and debris kicked up by the shock wave. The "survivable area" where you can expect this is a donut ring extending from the smaller interior "death zone" to the edge where the blast effects would diminish until all they did was rattle windows.

    The area covered by this donut is many times the area of the death zone. THAT'S why you practiced hiding under your desks. In a nuclear strike, if a bomb affects you at all, you're much more likely to be in this much larger "survivable area" than you are in the "death zone."
    Last edited by since9; 03-02-2015 at 05:11 AM.
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Having lived on Treasure Island and being subject to a week per year of the Blue Angels behaving as through TI was still a naval base, I must disagree with "jets = sound of freedom" in the most stringent terms.

    Take the Blue Angels, for instance. The Blue Angels fly for the sole purpose of propaganda. They fly at taxpayer expense, using money stolen without consent, and spent without the purview of those to whom that money rightfully belongs. They flagrantly disregard private homes and private property; on Treasure Island routinely breaking windows with absurdly low flyovers (far lower than are permitted over residential areas, but it's OK because TI *used* to be a Naval Base), and in other communities even losing planes and sending jet parts into private residences.

    All of this is done by force and without consent, for the purpose not of combatting any threat, but to teach weak-minded children like the one you once were (and still are, apparently) that "jets = cool! = "sound of freedom!", to bolster jingoism, and to instill useless emotional attachment t o military-industrial excess in the minds of youth and adult children.

    That's your idea of freedom? Really? You, sir, have a twisted definition of the word.

    The best thing that could possibly happen for freedom at this point is the peaceful, evolutionary end of the "American Empire", which should never have been the goal of a supposedly "free" country.
    Last edited by marshaul; 03-02-2015 at 06:52 AM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "Flyovers" are great. My kids, both boys, love them...now. Later, who knows.

    I grew up around them, Shaw AFB, the luster quickly fades...trust me. What can you do, call and complain? I was told that Sunday is a day off for the pilots...so there ya go, problem solved, complaint addressed.

    California residents should not be used as any sort of bench mark for the sentiments of the vast majority of We The People.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I grew up on the ranch across US-101 (still visible as the green space) from the Moffett NAS (now FA) runways and watched everything from blimps to Blackbirds fly.
    Stood next to a chain link fence back when this funny looking plane was wobbling back and forth, hovering a few tens of feet above the ground. After a few minutes it tilted over too far to one side and hit the ground real hard, pieces and part flying everywhere. No flames though.

    The V-22 before it was a V-22. My dad worked there, Moffett, and told his buddies over the BBQ grill one day after that..."That thing is a death trap, you won't catch me in that thing, big waste of our money."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Even at my age when the fighter fly over from Yuma's MCAS I like looking at them. They just had their annual air show here went and watched a good time.

    One of left's/anti's goals is to turn this country into a nation of wimps.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Having lived on Treasure Island and being subject to a week per year of the Blue Angels behaving as through TI was still a naval base, I must disagree with "jets = sound of freedom" in the most stringent terms.

    Take the Blue Angels, for instance. The Blue Angels fly for the sole purpose of propaganda. They fly at taxpayer expense, using money stolen without consent, and spent without the purview of those to whom that money rightfully belongs. They flagrantly disregard private homes and private property; on Treasure Island routinely breaking windows with absurdly low flyovers (far lower than are permitted over residential areas, but it's OK because TI *used* to be a Naval Base), and in other communities even losing planes and sending jet parts into private residences.

    All of this is done by force and without consent, for the purpose not of combatting any threat, but to teach weak-minded children like the one you once were (and still are, apparently) that "jets = cool! = "sound of freedom!", to bolster jingoism, and to instill useless emotional attachment t o military-industrial excess in the minds of youth and adult children.

    That's your idea of freedom? Really? You, sir, have a twisted definition of the word.

    The best thing that could possibly happen for freedom at this point is the peaceful, evolutionary end of the "American Empire", which should never have been the goal of a supposedly "free" country.
    I share the same sentiments.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I share the same sentiments.
    So do I.
    But I do have to say watching is fun. When I was a young adult on the Iwakuni, Japan Marine base I used to go watch the planes take off and land. I would go sit on a burm about 25 yards from the main taxi way and take pictures of all the cool planes. F-18s, F-14s, F-16s, A-10s Lear Jets painted bright orange (some sort of rescue spotter?). It was a blast. I'm sure these days it would cause some kind of indefinite detention if someone tried that.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    So do I.
    But I do have to say watching is fun. When I was a young adult on the Iwakuni, Japan Marine base I used to go watch the planes take off and land. I would go sit on a burm about 25 yards from the main taxi way and take pictures of all the cool planes. F-18s, F-14s, F-16s, A-10s Lear Jets painted bright orange (some sort of rescue spotter?). It was a blast. I'm sure these days it would cause some kind of indefinite detention if someone tried that.
    Watching planes is fun if you want to watch planes. No doubt about that. There's nothing wrong with airshows per se (especially if they're for-profit).

  20. #20
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Merely the governments training of citizens to "be afraid, be very afraid" and that requires that you surrender your rights and freedoms so we can protect you. It started with Bush and the color coded fear meter, and has continued without letup.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40sc View Post
    Merely the governments training of citizens to "be afraid, be very afraid" and that requires that you surrender your rights and freedoms so we can protect you. It started with Bush and the color coded fear meter, and has continued without letup.
    I'd say it started long before that.

    There was the unconstitutional alien and sedition act.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I'd say it started long before that.

    There was the unconstitutional alien and sedition act.
    That actually should be plural = Alien and Sedition Acts

    There were four of them covering different aspects.



    http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/Alien.html
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-04-2015 at 08:30 AM.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    The Blue Angels fly for the sole purpose of propaganda. They fly at taxpayer expense, using money stolen without consent, and spent without the purview of those to whom that money rightfully belongs.
    Horse hockey.

    Americans elect representatives. If enough Americans complained to their representatives, they would shut down the Blue Angles in a heartbeat. Congressmen are, after all, keenly interested in being reelected. But the Blues and the Thunderbirds have become an iconic part of America, and the voice of opposition to disbanding the Blues would be immense, and would win.

    Our gun control laws are a prime example. Regardless of the fact that our Constitution, to which our representatives swore an oath to "support and defend," says, "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," far too many members of Congress sit around thinking up ways to infringe on it for no other reason than too many of their constituents say, "if you don't put a stop to guns, we'll put a stop to you." In the same vein, calls abound to Congress to honor their oaths of office to support and defend the Constitution, including protecting the Second Amendment's unqualified prohibition against any infringement on our right to keep and bear arms. It's why the net effect of gun control laws has steadily diminished since the 1970s.

    So the flybys might be without YOUR consent, but they are most certainly done with the consent of the American people at large. Nor are they "for the sole purpose of propaganda." Where do you draw the line between "recruiting advertisement" and "propaganda?" If you belief they're synonymous, you have far large issues than noise from low-flying military aircraft.

    Both the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds use operational fighter aircraft. Those aircraft are war-ready, except for the paint, an issue easily rectified in less than 24 hours. Furthermore the maneuvers they practice, including low-level flight, visually identifying navigational points leading up to a target, and overflying the target on time and airspeed are essential combat readiness skills practiced by all military aircrew that drop bombs, cargo, or passengers, the same as I did when I flew B-52s, and later, C-130s. The only difference for airshows, on in your case, the Blue Angels practicing for airshows by overflying T.I., is that no bombs/cargo/pax are loaded and none are dropped. Other than that, all procedures remain the same.

    As for budgets, I think both the Blues and the Thunderbirds have their own budgets, a mix of both training and recruitment dollars. The blues do about 100 flybys a year. The Air Force (all aircraft, not just the Thunderbirds), do about 1,000. I've done more than a dozen flybys myself, every one of which occurred as part of our normal training. It was just another target or drop zone, with the only differences being that we didn't open doors, we didn't drop anything, and we maintained radio contact with a ground controller for any last-minute updates as to our TOT (time on target).

    Just to show you I'm being a good sport about it, there are ways to get the flybys stopped, or at least reduced to a minimum. I can understand the Blues overflying T.I. when it was a Navy base. Now that it's a repository of civilian housing, continuing the flybys is inappropriate, not to mention a potential PR quagmire.

    However, I note that "the Federal government still maintains an active presence on 40 acres (16 ha) occupied by the United States Department of Labor Job Corps (not part of the redevelopment). The Job Corps moved in and took over 40 acres (16 ha) and 13 building facilities just after the US Navy vacated the island." (Source) So, good luck on getting the federal government to stop overflying federal land, even if "the San Francisco Board of Supervisors approved new neighborhood development for 19,000 people over the next 20–30 years by Wilson Meany Sullivan, Lennar Urban, and Kenwood Investments." (ibid) There's what? About 10,500 residents on the island right now? If so, that's 10,500 potential signatures on a petition to Congress.

    The FAA cannot help you, at least not directly. As they state on their website: "The FAA does not have the authority to regulate the operations of military aircraft. If you live near a military installation, you should try contacting their noise office or community relations department for more information on their operations in your community. Additionally, you may contact the Department of Defense Noise Working Group on their website by email to get more information about the type of noise you may be experiencing."

    Even so, you can still contact your regional FAA airports district office, here: here.

    Finally, you can contact the following office. Even though they have no authority over military flights, they can put you in touch with the DoD NWG:

    FAA Aviation Noise Ombudsman

    The FAA's Aviation Noise Ombudsman serves as a liaison with the public on issues regarding aircraft noise. If you have a specific question, comment, concern or complaint that cannot be answered or addressed by any of the methods above, please contact the Aviation Noise Ombudsman and provide the following:

    Your name
    Your address
    A thorough description of your noise issue
    The times and dates you are experiencing the noise disturbance
    The type of aircraft that are generating the noise (i.e., commercial jets, helicopters, general aviation, etc.)
    Whether or not this noise issue is recurring
    Documentation of every official you have contacted regarding the issue

    This information is kept in a database that's retrievable by those who make decisions about these things i.e. Congress. They're not going to act on a lack of information. If even 10% of T.I.'s inhabitants complained at each flyby, you'd quickly amass a rather large database, and some of you will hopefully be smart enough to include detailed descriptions such as date, time, estimated velocity, altitude, heading, and any potentially reckless maneuvers endangering the welfare of the island's civilian residents.

    The best way to contact the FAA Aviation Noise Ombudsman is by sending an email to the address below. These messages can be efficiently distributed to the appropriate subject matter experts to address your concern. If you would prefer to call and leave a voice mail or send in a letter through the mail, you may do so using the contact information listed below.

    Email
    9-AWA-NoiseOmbudsman@faa.gov

    Phone
    (202) 267-3521

    Mailing Address
    Federal Aviation Administration,
    Aviation Noise Ombudsman, AEE-2
    800 Independence Ave. S.W.
    Washington, DC 20591
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    I’m very depressed today.
    I hope you're feeling much better a year later, Eeyore.

    There’s no telling in these two cases if the kids were genuinely terrified, or they just reacted to the terror displayed by the so-called “adults” in their lives. But apparently, these “adults” never learned to cope with the reality that there are dangers and unpleasantness in the world, and now they’re passing their handicap on to their kids. Nobody’s teaching them to pull their boots on, face their fears, and get on with their lives, because there’s no magic fairy dust that will guarantee a pleasant, comfortable life.
    When humans routinely go through drills, stress is reduced as they develop the confidence to follow effective procedures. In military aviation, we hope we never have eject. We practice it in the simulator on a regular basis, however, for two reasons: First, we're more confident in the aircraft, knowing that it's there as an option. Second, should the time ever come, we will act instead of entering an emotionally-locked condition, paralyzed by adrenaline and 22 other chemicals flooding our brains. We train for the same reason people train in the martial arts, so that our response is second nature.

    I recall the afternoon in 1991 when the apartment fire alarm sounded immediately followed by my neighbors running out of their apartment, right past the fire extinguisher, and down the stairs. I stepped outside, grabbed the extinguisher, and headed in. The first had started on the stove with boiling grease, but had crept up the walls and gotten into the cabinet above the stove. I covered the burning, boiling pot of grease, turned off the burner, hit the stove and wall with a shot of extinguisher (bottom up), then opened the cabinet and did the same. I could see a little bit still burning behind the cabinet through a hole the fire had created, so I filled a glass with water and tossed it through the hole.

    I'd been holding my breath during these 20 seconds, so I stepped outside for a couple deep breaths of fresh air, returned inside to check that the fire was out and open windows to minimize smoke damage. After the fire department arrived and assessed the situation, they heaped glowing praise on me in front of the apartment complex manager, who responded by giving me a free month's rent.

    Training. We do it across all facets of human society from cradle grave because it WORKS. The numb skulls protesting the active shooter training certainly have a right to voice their opinion, but others have the same right to voice theirs, and everyone else in the room should have shut them down hard, and permanent, for being such a blithering idiot.

    Yesterday I listened to a call-in radio show discussing Florida’s proposed legislation to allow concealed carry on college campuses. The host was remarkably unbiased, and the guest (a law professor) discussed the current state of affairs and the pros and cons of the issue very frankly. Several of the callers were “horrified, just horrified” that anyone would even consider this, that it was being discussed at all. That was the sum total of their argument; once they decided they were horrified they consciously or unconsciously ruled out any further consideration of the case.
    Colorado implemented concealed carry on their public college campuses around five or six years ago. Absolutely none of the many "horrendous" claims of what "would most certainly happen" have ever come true. In fact, crime on campus is down. A LOT. CC on campus simply works, and it works very well, a fact Virginia Tech's Board of Visitors should take note, if they'd ever pull their liberal, anti-gun heads out of their backsides.

    IMHO, these are all illustrations of how many Americans no longer value self-reliance, independence, and rational thought. It really saddens me that American society has fallen so far. Our ancestors took risks. They left their homes and crossed the ocean in tiny wooden ships to live in the wilderness. They settled the west with only what a Conestoga wagon could carry. No health care, no internet, no social security. Now we’re nothing but coddled children, afraid of everything. I knew the “American Empire” would fall someday, but I had no idea it would come so soon.
    You made a very interesting statement when you said, "They took risks." Events like active shooter drills and actions like allowing CC on campus aren't about taking risks. They're about mitigating risks. It's basic Risk Management 101: The systematic analysis of all available options, each with their own costs and risk, their interactions, and arriving at the greatest reduction in the overall cost of risk. Again, if Virginia Tech's Board of Visitors had half a brain amongst the lot of them, they would allow CC on campus carry, commensurate with the laws of the State of Virginia (21 years of age, isn't it, Grapeshot?).

    Don't get me wrong - I remain a staunch advocate of open carry. However, common sense tells us that when the situation (idiots in charge) is such that our only two options are CC or NC (no carry), I'll gladly take the armed option.
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

  25. #25
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    Grew up in Macon, GA. and I remember B-52s out of Warner Robbins doing low level flights over my house dropping fire ant pellets. Landing gear down and bomb bays open.

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