We are doomed.

sudden valley gunner · Mar 4, 2015

XD40sc said:
Merely the governments training of citizens to "be afraid, be very afraid" and that requires that you surrender your rights and freedoms so we can protect you. It started with Bush and the color coded fear meter, and has continued without letup.

I'd say it started long before that.

There was the unconstitutional alien and sedition act.

Grapeshot · Mar 4, 2015

sudden valley gunner said:
I'd say it started long before that.

There was the unconstitutional alien and sedition act.

That actually should be plural = Alien and Sedition Acts

There were four of them covering different aspects.

http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/Alien.html

since9 · Mar 7, 2016

marshaul said:
The Blue Angels fly for the sole purpose of propaganda. They fly at taxpayer expense, using money stolen without consent, and spent without the purview of those to whom that money rightfully belongs.

Horse hockey.

Americans elect representatives. If enough Americans complained to their representatives, they would shut down the Blue Angles in a heartbeat. Congressmen are, after all, keenly interested in being reelected. But the Blues and the Thunderbirds have become an iconic part of America, and the voice of opposition to disbanding the Blues would be immense, and would win.

Our gun control laws are a prime example. Regardless of the fact that our Constitution, to which our representatives swore an oath to "support and defend," says, "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," far too many members of Congress sit around thinking up ways to infringe on it for no other reason than too many of their constituents say, "if you don't put a stop to guns, we'll put a stop to you." In the same vein, calls abound to Congress to honor their oaths of office to support and defend the Constitution, including protecting the Second Amendment's unqualified prohibition against any infringement on our right to keep and bear arms. It's why the net effect of gun control laws has steadily diminished since the 1970s.

So the flybys might be without YOUR consent, but they are most certainly done with the consent of the American people at large. Nor are they "for the sole purpose of propaganda." Where do you draw the line between "recruiting advertisement" and "propaganda?" If you belief they're synonymous, you have far large issues than noise from low-flying military aircraft.

Both the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds use operational fighter aircraft. Those aircraft are war-ready, except for the paint, an issue easily rectified in less than 24 hours. Furthermore the maneuvers they practice, including low-level flight, visually identifying navigational points leading up to a target, and overflying the target on time and airspeed are essential combat readiness skills practiced by all military aircrew that drop bombs, cargo, or passengers, the same as I did when I flew B-52s, and later, C-130s. The only difference for airshows, on in your case, the Blue Angels practicing for airshows by overflying T.I., is that no bombs/cargo/pax are loaded and none are dropped. Other than that, all procedures remain the same.

As for budgets, I think both the Blues and the Thunderbirds have their own budgets, a mix of both training and recruitment dollars. The blues do about 100 flybys a year. The Air Force (all aircraft, not just the Thunderbirds), do about 1,000. I've done more than a dozen flybys myself, every one of which occurred as part of our normal training. It was just another target or drop zone, with the only differences being that we didn't open doors, we didn't drop anything, and we maintained radio contact with a ground controller for any last-minute updates as to our TOT (time on target).

Just to show you I'm being a good sport about it, there are ways to get the flybys stopped, or at least reduced to a minimum. I can understand the Blues overflying T.I. when it was a Navy base. Now that it's a repository of civilian housing, continuing the flybys is inappropriate, not to mention a potential PR quagmire.

However, I note that "the Federal government still maintains an active presence on 40 acres (16 ha) occupied by the United States Department of Labor Job Corps (not part of the redevelopment). The Job Corps moved in and took over 40 acres (16 ha) and 13 building facilities just after the US Navy vacated the island." (Source) So, good luck on getting the federal government to stop overflying federal land, even if "the San Francisco Board of Supervisors approved new neighborhood development for 19,000 people over the next 20–30 years by Wilson Meany Sullivan, Lennar Urban, and Kenwood Investments." (ibid) There's what? About 10,500 residents on the island right now? If so, that's 10,500 potential signatures on a petition to Congress.

The FAA cannot help you, at least not directly. As they state on their website: "The FAA does not have the authority to regulate the operations of military aircraft. If you live near a military installation, you should try contacting their noise office or community relations department for more information on their operations in your community. Additionally, you may contact the Department of Defense Noise Working Group on their website by email to get more information about the type of noise you may be experiencing."

Even so, you can still contact your regional FAA airports district office, here: here.

Finally, you can contact the following office. Even though they have no authority over military flights, they can put you in touch with the DoD NWG:

FAA Aviation Noise Ombudsman

The FAA's Aviation Noise Ombudsman serves as a liaison with the public on issues regarding aircraft noise. If you have a specific question, comment, concern or complaint that cannot be answered or addressed by any of the methods above, please contact the Aviation Noise Ombudsman and provide the following:

Your name
Your address
A thorough description of your noise issue
The times and dates you are experiencing the noise disturbance
The type of aircraft that are generating the noise (i.e., commercial jets, helicopters, general aviation, etc.)
Whether or not this noise issue is recurring
Documentation of every official you have contacted regarding the issue

This information is kept in a database that's retrievable by those who make decisions about these things i.e. Congress. They're not going to act on a lack of information. If even 10% of T.I.'s inhabitants complained at each flyby, you'd quickly amass a rather large database, and some of you will hopefully be smart enough to include detailed descriptions such as date, time, estimated velocity, altitude, heading, and any potentially reckless maneuvers endangering the welfare of the island's civilian residents.

The best way to contact the FAA Aviation Noise Ombudsman is by sending an email to the address below. These messages can be efficiently distributed to the appropriate subject matter experts to address your concern. If you would prefer to call and leave a voice mail or send in a letter through the mail, you may do so using the contact information listed below.

Email
9-AWA-NoiseOmbudsman@faa.gov

Phone
(202) 267-3521

Mailing Address
Federal Aviation Administration,
Aviation Noise Ombudsman, AEE-2
800 Independence Ave. S.W.
Washington, DC 20591

since9 · Mar 7, 2016

Eeyore said:
I’m very depressed today.

I hope you're feeling much better a year later, Eeyore.

There’s no telling in these two cases if the kids were genuinely terrified, or they just reacted to the terror displayed by the so-called “adults” in their lives. But apparently, these “adults” never learned to cope with the reality that there are dangers and unpleasantness in the world, and now they’re passing their handicap on to their kids. Nobody’s teaching them to pull their boots on, face their fears, and get on with their lives, because there’s no magic fairy dust that will guarantee a pleasant, comfortable life.

When humans routinely go through drills, stress is reduced as they develop the confidence to follow effective procedures. In military aviation, we hope we never have eject. We practice it in the simulator on a regular basis, however, for two reasons: First, we're more confident in the aircraft, knowing that it's there as an option. Second, should the time ever come, we will act instead of entering an emotionally-locked condition, paralyzed by adrenaline and 22 other chemicals flooding our brains. We train for the same reason people train in the martial arts, so that our response is second nature.

I recall the afternoon in 1991 when the apartment fire alarm sounded immediately followed by my neighbors running out of their apartment, right past the fire extinguisher, and down the stairs. I stepped outside, grabbed the extinguisher, and headed in. The first had started on the stove with boiling grease, but had crept up the walls and gotten into the cabinet above the stove. I covered the burning, boiling pot of grease, turned off the burner, hit the stove and wall with a shot of extinguisher (bottom up), then opened the cabinet and did the same. I could see a little bit still burning behind the cabinet through a hole the fire had created, so I filled a glass with water and tossed it through the hole.

I'd been holding my breath during these 20 seconds, so I stepped outside for a couple deep breaths of fresh air, returned inside to check that the fire was out and open windows to minimize smoke damage. After the fire department arrived and assessed the situation, they heaped glowing praise on me in front of the apartment complex manager, who responded by giving me a free month's rent.

Training. We do it across all facets of human society from cradle grave because it WORKS. The numb skulls protesting the active shooter training certainly have a right to voice their opinion, but others have the same right to voice theirs, and everyone else in the room should have shut them down hard, and permanent, for being such a blithering idiot.

Yesterday I listened to a call-in radio show discussing Florida’s proposed legislation to allow concealed carry on college campuses. The host was remarkably unbiased, and the guest (a law professor) discussed the current state of affairs and the pros and cons of the issue very frankly. Several of the callers were “horrified, just horrified” that anyone would even consider this, that it was being discussed at all. That was the sum total of their argument; once they decided they were horrified they consciously or unconsciously ruled out any further consideration of the case.

Colorado implemented concealed carry on their public college campuses around five or six years ago. Absolutely none of the many "horrendous" claims of what "would most certainly happen" have ever come true. In fact, crime on campus is down. A LOT. CC on campus simply works, and it works very well, a fact Virginia Tech's Board of Visitors should take note, if they'd ever pull their liberal, anti-gun heads out of their backsides.

IMHO, these are all illustrations of how many Americans no longer value self-reliance, independence, and rational thought. It really saddens me that American society has fallen so far. Our ancestors took risks. They left their homes and crossed the ocean in tiny wooden ships to live in the wilderness. They settled the west with only what a Conestoga wagon could carry. No health care, no internet, no social security. Now we’re nothing but coddled children, afraid of everything. I knew the “American Empire” would fall someday, but I had no idea it would come so soon.

You made a very interesting statement when you said, "They took risks." Events like active shooter drills and actions like allowing CC on campus aren't about taking risks. They're about mitigating risks. It's basic Risk Management 101: The systematic analysis of all available options, each with their own costs and risk, their interactions, and arriving at the greatest reduction in the overall cost of risk. Again, if Virginia Tech's Board of Visitors had half a brain amongst the lot of them, they would allow CC on campus carry, commensurate with the laws of the State of Virginia (21 years of age, isn't it, Grapeshot?).

Don't get me wrong - I remain a staunch advocate of open carry. However, common sense tells us that when the situation (idiots in charge) is such that our only two options are CC or NC (no carry), I'll gladly take the armed option.

beebobby · Mar 8, 2016

Grew up in Macon, GA. and I remember B-52s out of Warner Robbins doing low level flights over my house dropping fire ant pellets. Landing gear down and bomb bays open.

Grapeshot · Mar 9, 2016

JTHunter said:
Like most young boys (when I was that young), I loved looking at planes and wondering where they were going. The faster they went, the more interesting they were. I even remember hearing the sonic booms of some heavies flying high overhead, before they banned those too.

Since9 - from the way you handled that kitchen fire, I would bet you were in Scouts when you were younger. Even if not, you took to heart one of their most basic principles - "Be prepared." Nice job.

While not so dramatic, there was a case where I may have saved my grandmother's life when I was in college. I was visiting when a fire broke out in the motor of an old, large window fan and she was about to throw a large pan of water on it WHILE IT WAS STILL PLUGGED IN AND RUNNING!! After stopping her, I used a kitchen towel and "snapped" it around the powercord and yanked it out of the outlet. Then I used a dry chemical extinguisher that was probably 15-20 years old (brass container - the size of a large aerosol can) but thankfully, it still worked. We were also fortunate that, being in the dusty motor, the flames hadn't spread to the wall above the fan. Whew!

Continuing off topic for one more reply -
Many years ago, I would add to my discretionary funds, by pulling fans from dumpsters, refurbishing, and selling them. Mostly just cleaning (inside & out), but would also balance the commutators, lube bearings/bushings, etc.

since9 · Mar 11, 2016

JTHunter said:
Like most young boys (when I was that young), I loved looking at planes and wondering where they were going. The faster they went, the more interesting they were. I even remember hearing the sonic booms of some heavies flying high overhead, before they banned those too.

Since9 - from the way you handled that kitchen fire, I would bet you were in Scouts when you were younger. Even if not, you took to heart one of their most basic principles - "Be prepared." Nice job.

Thanks, but it's Fires while underway are deadly, regardless of the vehicle. Apartment fires, not so much, but the response remains the same: Grab extinguisher. Put out the fire.

While not so dramatic, there was a case where I may have saved my grandmother's life when I was in college. I was visiting when a fire broke out in the motor of an old, large window fan and she was about to throw a large pan of water on it WHILE IT WAS STILL PLUGGED IN AND RUNNING!! After stopping her, I used a kitchen towel and "snapped" it around the powercord and yanked it out of the outlet. Then I used a dry chemical extinguisher that was probably 15-20 years old (brass container - the size of a large aerosol can) but thankfully, it still worked. We were also fortunate that, being in the dusty motor, the flames hadn't spread to the wall above the fan. Whew!

Good for you.

Eeyore · Jul 7, 2016

since9 said:
I hope you're feeling much better a year later, Eeyore.

Nope, it's only gotten worse.

No change on the infantilization of Americans. More and more rights, fewer and fewer responsibilities.
Hillary isn't getting indicted (no surprise there), so it's now undeniable: laws are only for little people. The death knell of a republic is when the elected become "more equal" than everybody else.
Our presidential election will be a choice between--to use South Park's metaphor--a S**t Sandwich and a Giant D**che. Either way, we lose.
Hillary will win, so the SCOTUS is lost for at least a generation.
RKBA will follow.
Anyone remember the national debt? Nobody's talking about it, but it keeps getting bigger, and China's buying the bonds. Someday, they'll want their money back--probably the same day they decide to invade Taiwan or something even more obnoxious

Why should I be feeling better?

Va_Nemo · Jul 7, 2016

When I was in grades 1-5 in 1964-69 I lived close to the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville Al. I am confident it was on the Soviets target list. We did the duck and cover routinely. Its still a bit scary to me now to remember it.

But we were in much more danger in the first and second because if a jet went flying over close by there was a stampede for the door (by the boys anyway) to get outside to see it go past.

Nemo

Va_Nemo · Jul 7, 2016

Good investments? The 5 B's are always a good place to put a reasonable chunk. For those who do not recognize the 5 B's, many just consider the first 3 B's. Those are Beans, Bullets and Band Aids.

But like about any other hard item only so much is a good "have in possession" item. So add on the last 2. Barter and Bullion items.

IMHO, the best investments anyone can make with the state of the world today.

Nemo

Citizen · Jul 8, 2016

Nightmare said:
Milady Wife and I had our annual portfolio review this morning and much of the discussion was of the effect of foreign central banks' negative interest rates, which we US do not suffer yet, and strategies to minimize the impact if US interest rates go negative. They're a bit over +1% ATM.

In essence, when the cost of maintaining our investments begins to draw down the principle then we liquidate out of the market.

Hmmmm. I wonder.

Liquidating out of the market would seem a too-easy way to nullify negative interest rates. I wonder whether there are European laws that penalize withdrawing from the market or make it hard to do so. You know, something that backs-up negative interest rates.

Citizen · Jul 8, 2016

since9 said:
SNIP So the flybys might be without YOUR consent, but they are most certainly done with the consent of the American people at large.

He said, "using money stolen without consent", not the flybys being done without consent.

OC for ME · Jul 8, 2016

Cyprus

In retrospect, it is clear that European leaders, international creditors and bank regulators could have done more to limit the economic upheaval caused by seizing portions of depositors’ money above the level of 100,000 euros covered by deposit insurance, a threshold equivalent to roughly $105,000 at the current exchange rate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/b...om-banking-crisis-deep-scars-remain.html?_r=0

The government can't steal what they can't find.

Hobbes camp or Locke camp...which camp are you in?

HPmatt · Jul 8, 2016

The negative interest rates are causing lots of people - like in Japan - to pull money out of banks and keep cash at home.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...note-demand-soars-nirp-triggers-cash-hoarding

The smart central bank pointey-heads are trying to encourage spending by the little people. So now they idiots are talking about eliminating $100 and €500 bills. Gold is a good store of value. As from Dickens' Great Expectations Pip & Wemmick conversations 'portable property'...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

utbagpiper · Jul 9, 2016

Nightmare said:
Milady Wife and I had our annual portfolio review this morning and much of the discussion was of the effect of foreign central banks' negative interest rates, which we US do not suffer yet, and strategies to minimize the impact if US interest rates go negative. They're a bit over +1% ATM.

In essence, when the cost of maintaining our investments begins to draw down the principle then we liquidate out of the market.

Citizen said:
Liquidating out of the market would seem a too-easy way to nullify negative interest rates. I wonder whether there are European laws that penalize withdrawing from the market or make it hard to do so. You know, something that backs-up negative interest rates.

It is interesting to me that people will put their money in a negative interest rate account, knowing they will lose value. Of course, compared to the 1% or less most of us get on savings or CDs, and the loss of value from inflation, maybe the difference is more emotional than practical.

I guess the question is, what is the "cost" of the risk involved in the various options for holding wealth. Cash and gold held at home can be stolen. Cash is subject to loss of value through inflation or loss through fire. Gold and other precious metals' values is probably determined these days far more through speculation and market manipulation than from any true intrinsic value.

Rental properties have traditionally been pretty good places to park wealth and to eve make good money. Rents and equity tend to rise with inflation even as a mortgage payments stay constant. But with ever more "renters' rights" laws a landlord can lose 6 months of rental income anytime a renter decides to stop paying and fully asserts his "rights" about not being evicted. Such laws also make it ever more difficult to legally screen applicants so as to avoid the professional deadbeats or even the guys who tear up the property.

Government "guarantees" of the value placed in banks or other institutions start to look pretty hallow when money is stolen by the government or with the government's full assent.

Not to mention the hassle or convenience factor. What is the time involved in trading my accumulated wealth for something I want? Selling real estate can take weeks or months. Not sure what is involved in trading gold for a new car. Cash on hand is easy, just don't get stopped by the police between home and the dealership lest you risk civil asset forfeiture.

Charles

since9 · Jul 10, 2016

Eeyore said:
There are two ways to interpret JG’s statement, and both of them are pathetic. Either JG is exaggerating/lying to justify her outrage, or she and/or her kids’ teachers have failed to properly teach her children how to react to unexpected stimuli. When I was a kid, a fighter jet roaring over my first-grade classroom would’ve been met with cries of “Cool!”--at least from most of the boys. So much for “Jet noise—the sound of freedom.”

Hi, Eeyore. The rest of this is a detailed response I was a Navy brat, and grew up near NAS Jax, throughout and beyond the Vietnam War. Tons of times did various Navy aircraft, mostly fighters, grace the skies above us. Each and every one of the pre-K through 6th grader co-students in my classes throughout the time I was in Florida, the vast majority of whom were civilians, knew full well what these sounds meant.

To the best of my knowledge, no one ran for their "safe place." No kids were "traumatized." Furthermore, all of this success did NOT require years-long brainwashing and indoctrination. Rather, it was the natural result of parents and teachers understanding the necessity of our Armed Forces, combined with the occasional explanatory remark to their kids and for the teachers to their students.

I think your assessment is dead-on, Eeyore. JG is either exaggerating, she and the parents have indeed indoctrinated (brainwashed) the kids to fear and despise what's normal, right, and necessary, or as I suspect, a combination of both.

A parents' teacher's best reaction to fireworks in front of their kids is, "Ooh! Fireworks!" A parents' teacher's best reaction to military aircraft in front of their kids is, "Ooh! Fighters!"

If JG isn't doing that, then she's doing a grave disservice to her students and should be dismissed from the ranks of academia.

2. One of my wife’s friends is leading a protest movement against an “active shooter” drill at her kids’ school. She thinks it’s horrible that the school would do this and terrify her kids. (Her answer, of course, is to outlaw all guns. That will fix everything.) My wife argued that, as sad as it is, school shootings are a real-world threat these days, and ignoring that reality won’t make it go away. A calm, reasoned talk with the kids stating that it’s very unlikely (just like a fire or tornado) and preparing for it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen would probably make the kids OK. And somehow, fire drills, tornado drills, and even baby boomers’ “duck and cover” drills are not nearly so horrifying to this woman. My wife has tried to point out the many fallacies (how is the remote possibility of an isolated shooting more terrifying than the remote possibility of total nuclear Armageddon?), but her friend has her indignant hysteria field at full power and no logic can penetrate it.

Makes sense. The duck and cover drills for nuclear reasons ended when I was very young, but we conducted drills throughout the 1960's, '70's, and through graduation for natural disasters, mainly tornadoes and hurricanes.

None of the several thousand of use were ever "traumatized" by these drills. In fact, we had an increased level of confidence in our abilities, as well as an increased awareness of normal and natural dangers.

Your wife's friend needs to stop, and given both her position, along with the way she's coming across, it's clear she needs professional help i.e. she's "not quite right" in the head.

There’s no telling in these two cases if the kids were genuinely terrified, or they just reacted to the terror displayed by the so-called “adults” in their lives.

I suspect a combination of both, although these things would probably not exist unless both factors are present.

But apparently, these “adults” never learned to cope with the reality that there are dangers and unpleasantness in the world, and now they’re passing their handicap on to their kids.

Perhaps they grew up more recently, after all the duck and cover as well as the disaster preparedness drills had been nixed.

I strongly believe preparing kids for the worst, provided one doesn't overdo it, is the best way to help make them healthy and whole. I've been running my son through drills since he was old enough to understand, and he's not in the least bit traumatized. In fact, he's one of the most well-adjusted, down-to-Earth kids I've ever met, and having managed pools for four years and been a camp counselor for a summer, I've met and interacted with a LOT of kids.

Again, your wife's friend isn't quite right in the head.

Nobody’s teaching them to pull their boots on, face their fears, and get on with their lives, because there’s no magic fairy dust that will guarantee a pleasant, comfortable life.

Bingo.

3. Yesterday I listened to a call-in radio show discussing Florida’s proposed legislation to allow concealed carry on college campuses. The host was remarkably unbiased, and the guest (a law professor) discussed the current state of affairs and the pros and cons of the issue very frankly. Several of the callers were “horrified, just horrified” that anyone would even consider this, that it was being discussed at all. That was the sum total of their argument; once they decided they were horrified they consciously or unconsciously ruled out any further consideration of the case.

Fear is an absolutely horrible way to live one's life. One of my favorite verses in the Bible says, "“There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.” - 1 John 4:18

But there's tons of Bible verses about fear.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a healthy respect for actual, verifiable threats. I have always been an adventurous individual, but I've always calculated the odds while leveraging my experience, and have always erred on the side of caution. Perhaps that's why I played football, raced motocross, dived, played soccer, scuba-dived, flown airplanes, including military combat all over the world, and the sum of my injuries to date involve breaking my collarbone when I hit a pothole while riding my bicycle through a large puddle in 7th grade, slipping on the ice and severely spraining my back when I was 28, and severely spraining my ankle when I was 33. Only the last one has had any lasting impact.

Project management 101 says threats are best mitigated by reducing or eliminating the environmental factors which give rise to the threats. In the case of flying combat, that involves the use of low-observable and radar diminishing paint, chaff and flares to defeat the threats, along with various tactics, techniques and procedures for minimizing the effectiveness of the threat. One of those tactics is bombing the snot out of the enemy's anti-aircraft batteries before the cargo haulers arrive. Using missile strikes are also effective, and pose less threat to our own forces.

Despite our advances, we're still targeted by the enemy. I've been shot at. Various aircraft I've flown have been hit. I've lost four friends due to the hazards of military service, but not in combat. Rather, they were lost in training accidents and . The hazards of flying military combat aircraft are real, not because the aircraft themselves are inherently dangerous, but because the way we employ them is risky. That risk is necessary in order to successfully complete our missions while in actual combat, when getting the mission done really matters and can save lives.

I accepted the risk before embarking on that career, as do law enforcement officers, North Sea fishermen, loggers, miners, steel workers, and other risky callings.

People like your wife's friend live in a dream world. They do not understand that life itself is inherently risky, or that trying to wish it away only deceives and hurts the kids.

IMHO, these are all illustrations of how many Americans no longer value self-reliance, independence, and rational thought. It really saddens me that American society has fallen so far. Our ancestors took risks. They left their homes and crossed the ocean in tiny wooden ships to live in the wilderness. They settled the west with only what a Conestoga wagon could carry. No health care, no internet, no social security. Now we’re nothing but coddled children, afraid of everything. I knew the “American Empire” would fall someday, but I had no idea it would come so soon.

Exactly. But I'm sure every one of those kids will be just fine in their "safe space."

Yeah...

We are doomed.

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior

since9

Campaign Veteran

since9

Campaign Veteran

beebobby

Regular Member

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior

since9

Campaign Veteran

Eeyore

Regular Member

Va_Nemo

Member

Va_Nemo

Member

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

OC for ME

Regular Member

HPmatt

Regular Member

utbagpiper

Banned

since9

Campaign Veteran