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Thread: First Sig Brace arrest

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    First Sig Brace arrest

    http://controversialtimes.com/issues...rifle-charges/

    A group of home invaders in California found themselves facing an additional gun charge after an attemped home invasion. The charge is likely the first of its kind.
    Justin Singh, 27 and Austin Singh, 21 are charged with robbery, possession of an assault weapon, possession of a short-barreled rifle, and possession of marijuana with intent to sell. A third suspect faces other charges.


    They said it would be based on actual use. They used them as SBRs and got arrested for it.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Good job, Feds! You stopped a home invasion with your new law!



    Now we can just sit back and wait on John L.A. Citizen to get arrested for the same charge, putting him in the same group as a scumbag home invader.
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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Good job, Feds! You stopped a home invasion with your new law!



    Now we can just sit back and wait on John L.A. Citizen to get arrested for the same charge, putting him in the same group as a scumbag home invader.
    exactly right and never mind L.A Citizen was lawfully defending their family. Nope lets throw the book at them for using the only tool available to them to stop from being robbed or worst.
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    SBRs? Illegal? Rubbish.

    The guys should be punished for actual violations, not for stuff that is garbage.

    They'll get plenty of time for the crimes they actually committed.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Horrible example. We dont know if the lower was a "rifle" registered lower or a myriad of other information. Plus they were committing other crimes at the time. If a regular law abiding citizen is charged,i would be more concerned.

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    It says they're charged under a Kalifornia statute. I'll bet most people possesing the Sig brace have never considered state law on the matter.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    It says they're charged under a Kalifornia statute. I'll bet most people possesing the Sig brace have never considered state law on the matter.
    Im not aware of any state statues. wrist braces are relatively new. I think most states would defer to federal law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    Im not aware of any state statues. wrist braces are relatively new. I think most states would defer to federal law.
    State statutes regulating short barrel shotguns and rifles have been around since the NFA. It's obvious Kali has such a statute. ATF letters have little legal relevance to state regulation unless the statute specifies otherwise. Some states regulate sbr's and sbs's in addition to fed regs.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 02-04-2015 at 08:05 PM.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    State statutes regulating short barrel shotguns and rifles have been around since the NFA. It's obvious Kali has such a statute. ATF letters have little legal relevance to state regulation unless the statute specifies otherwise. Some states regulate sbr's and sbs's in addition to fed regs.
    i was referring to state statutes about the sig brace itself. You are correct in that even an ATF letter isnt a guarantee of not being arrested. It's ultimately up to the individual agent to arrest, judge/da to prosecute and jury to convict. Letter is handy but as you said, no guarantee.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    i was referring to state statutes about the sig brace itself. You are correct in that even an ATF letter isnt a guarantee of not being arrested. It's ultimately up to the individual agent to arrest, judge/da to prosecute and jury to convict. Letter is handy but as you said, no guarantee.
    Cali has an sbr law and that was (allegedly) violated when the weapon was shouldered with the brace attached. batf says this use constitutes an NFA weapon. Tough for the bad guys.

    And those whe get their dumm @sses on you tube shouldering it are just poking the bear. Sad.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Not justifying the actions of the alledged "home invaders" here but just where does CALI get off attempting to enforce a FEDERAL Law. If these folks are charged in a California STATE court with a Federal crime then the prosecutor is an idiot--- IMO!
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Not justifying the actions of the alledged "home invaders" here but just where does CALI get off attempting to enforce a FEDERAL Law. If these folks are charged in a California STATE court with a Federal crime then the prosecutor is an idiot--- IMO!
    From the OP's linked article: "That said, the pair is charged under California’s state short-barreled rifle law, not the federal law, which is what was addressed in the ATF’s letters."

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    I think the point is that it is not the ATF enforcing the NFA law against a sig brace user(normal, law abiding citizen) at least yet. These jokers were committing several other crimes and this is simply a tacked on charge.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    .... We dont know if the lower was a "rifle" registered lower or a myriad of other information. Plus they were committing other crimes at the time. If a regular law abiding citizen is charged,i would be more concerned.
    The weapon was configured as a "pistol", hence the brace. Are cali weapons registered? A Citizen is a Citizen. No less for committing a crime. They are still Citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    I think the point is that it is not the ATF enforcing the NFA law against a sig brace user(normal, law abiding citizen) at least yet. These jokers were committing several other crimes and this is simply a tacked on charge.
    When arrested expect them to list every charge that they can glean from your actions. They can be charged with a ton of crimes, it is the court room and the conviction that counts.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    The weapon was configured as a "pistol", hence the brace. Are cali weapons registered? A Citizen is a Citizen. No less for committing a crime. They are still Citizens.



    When arrested expect them to list every charge that they can glean from your actions. They can be charged with a ton of crimes, it is the court room and the conviction that counts.
    yes, but he was charged under the CA NFA law from what others have said. You have a good point that it is the conviction that will count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    From the OP's linked article: "That said, the pair is charged under California’s state short-barreled rifle law, not the federal law, which is what was addressed in the ATF’s letters."

    Will you need any assistance removing your foot from your mouth?

    stay safe.
    So, a Pistol/handgun with this brace applied and then fired from the shoulder (in violation of supposed rules as presently interpreted by BATFE) results in the Pistol/handgun now being a rifle?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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  17. #17
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Were these guys videoed shouldering their "pistols", or, how is the California prosecutor going to prove they were misused?

    I'm probably wrong, but what I'm imagining is the prosecution saw an AR with a short barrel and thought, "AHA! an illegal short barreled rifle!" and at trial it will be determined if the lower was a rifle, or 'other'. They're probably going to want the defense to prove it, as well, or just use it as a bargaining chip. (Of course we're all just brainstorming here, as we don't know the particulars.... yet._

  18. #18
    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    So, a Pistol/handgun with this brace applied and then fired from the shoulder (in violation of supposed rules as presently interpreted by BATFE) results in the Pistol/handgun now being a rifle?
    at first the ATF said that was ok. Now they are saying that if you shoulder a pistol with a wrist brace, then it becomes a rifle. They didnt say what happens if you shoulder a pistol with a buffer tube. Their explanation made it sound like even the "thumbs forward" style of pistol shooting would reclassify a pistol as an SBR.

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