Sterling Costco Shooting ruled justified

utbagpiper said:

As compared to the productive nature of constantly bashing on cops, complaining about the judiciary is corrupt, and thumping of chests about not complying with unconstitutional laws? Compared to that, some appeals to work together (or simply actually get off the keyboard and do some work) to advance our RKBA and some examples of success would seem to be refreshing.

It isn't self-promotion. I've got nothing to promote. I am a volunteer. GOUtah! doesn't collect dues.

It is examples of success that I believe can and should be emulated. I can't even take credit for the methods as we've merely implemented H.L. Richardson's techniques.

Maybe you might examine why you find that so distressing.

Charles

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Charles...This is Virginia, and yes, everyone is impressed with you and what you've done to save the world....now GoUtah and LeaveVa.

Primus said:

Great question. Have you put yours down or just don't walk around? [emoji8]

Love ya brother.

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What member are you referring to on this site? I hope you are not tossing another personal insult, or are you just being a troll again?

Or did you think I was talking about you in my post, and felt insulted? Is that the reason for your insult?

To the OP topic:

Bystanders could have been cleared.

Backup should have been called.

It is not like LEO's do not have the equipment to deal with a knife wielding individual. If they can breach a building, with hostiles inside, they can take on 1 individual with a knife.

http://www.americanspecialops.com/images/photos/law-enforcement/fbi-swat-team.jpg

However, since they have immunity for killing a citizen, why go to the bother of getting suited up to confront the threat. faster to just pull the trigger, right?

I am sure the majority of local LEO's would agree with less than lethal approaches, however, perhaps they would get into trouble with their department head if they voiced their opinions on a public forum.

SovereigntyOrDeath said:

To the OP topic:

Bystanders could have been cleared.

Backup should have been called.

It is not like LEO's do not have the equipment to deal with a knife wielding individual. If they can breach a building, with hostiles inside, they can take on 1 individual with a knife.

http://www.americanspecialops.com/images/photos/law-enforcement/fbi-swat-team.jpg

However, since they have immunity for killing a citizen, why go to the bother of getting suited up to confront the threat. faster to just pull the trigger, right?

I am sure the majority of local LEO's would agree, however, perhaps they would get into trouble with their department head if they voiced their opinions on a public forum.

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The problem is not so much with LEO's as it is with society condoning extermination of undesirables through the use of deadly force.

WalkingWolf said:

The problem is not so much with LEO's as it is with society condoning extermination of undesirables through the use of deadly force.

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I can agree to the extent that society is complicit due to the fact that society or the people can demand a stop to it.

I think folks are so involved with their own lives that they are indifferent unless it involves them and theirs.

Apathy!

peter nap said:

Charles...This is Virginia, and yes, everyone is impressed with you and what you've done to save the world....now GoUtah and LeaveVa.

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Or, you could stop with the personal sniping and just ignore my posts if you find then grating.

Charles

utbagpiper said:

Or, you could stop with the personal sniping and just ignore my posts if you find then grating.

Charles

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At least stay on topic and leave the word I out of your posts Charles.

WalkingWolf said:

The problem is not so much with LEO's as it is with society condoning extermination of undesirables through the use of deadly force.

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I respectfully disagree. Voters are not shooting folks, whether it be justifiably or unjustly. When voters start shooting folks they hope for a excuse to stay out of the Big House. If I had to blame my fellow voter, I would blame Joe Dirt voter sitting in a jury box (GJ too), before I blame Jane Dirt voter sitting in the courtroom as a observer.

peter nap said:

At least stay on topic and leave the word I out of your posts Charles.

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I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

Get over it and ignore what irks you. I will stay as on topic as the posters to whom I respond.

Charles

WalkingWolf said:

We have a society that cheer leads eliminating undesirables by deadly force, as long as society cheers it,

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Citation to any significant portion of society "cheerleading" such deaths?

The only time I've seen anyone upset about deadly force NOT being used is when you, my misguided brother in that case, was upset that a law abiding citizen "didn't have what it takes to shoot" when demonstrably he ended a situation without shooting.

From time to time I've seen gun owners cheerlead that a good guy killed a bad guy, rather than properly celebrating that the good guy was able to avoid serious harm to himself and other innocents.

When it comes to cops using deadly force, I believe we most often lament that a person was killed, and then argue about whether it was justified, necessary, or proper.

WalkingWolf said:

ETA if we as non LEO's or most of us in certain states. Do not retreat a dangerous situation, and use deadly force, we are covered. NOT if we advance into that situation, if you go to danger with the intent to kill, IMO, you are not covered or justified as a citizen. There is no duty to advance. As for LEO's there is no duty or responsibility to advance, but they are legal to do it, some consider it their job. Advancing to kill should be illegal for anyone, if that is the intent.

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We don't hire cops to run away. I'll leave that to unarmed French cops responding to murderous Islamic terrorists. I don't want cops "advancing to kill" any more than you do. But I want them to protect innocent life first, and then protect the life of the criminal or mentally ill person if possible.

WalkingWolf said:

There is no doubt this woman was mentally ill. There was no doubt they had ooodles of time to wait for the proper equipment, or working equipment. There was a enormous amount of alternatives in that store, they either chose to ignore them or they were too stupid to use them.

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On what vast information beyond what has been posted here do you arrive at the doubtless conclusion that the police had plenty of time to do things differently?

They may well have had time and other options. But I haven't seen sufficient information to say they did for sure.

Citations?

Charles

peter nap said:

Charles...This is Virginia, and yes, everyone is impressed with you and what you've done to save the world....now GoUtah and LeaveVa.

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HAHAHAHA +1

I'm getting sooo tired of it, honestly. The thick layer of self righteousness makes it even harder to get through certain posts as if the thousands of words weren't enough of a casual reader's deterrent. I allocate a couple hours a day some days for internet reading and the benefit does not outweigh the investment of time anymore some days.

The Truth said:

I allocate a couple hours a day some days for internet reading and the benefit does not outweigh the investment of time anymore some days.

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On this we are fully agreed. I come to read on RKBA and OC and have to wade through a ton of cop bashing, anarchy promotions, and tin foil hat gold fringe on the flag on the courtroom conspiracy stuff to get a few useful nuggets about cases or bills actually involving the subject of this forum.

Charles

utbagpiper said:

Citation to any significant portion of society "cheerleading" such deaths?

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Let's see... one user here stands out as a pretty clear representative of the demographic being referenced here, and that is CLOUDCROFT. He openly supports "thinning of the herd." You really need citations for this? Get real, dude. And stop the squabbling with WalkingWolf. That's another thing getting really old around here IMO.

The Truth said:

HAHAHAHA +1

I'm getting sooo tired of it, honestly. The thick layer of self righteousness makes it even harder to get through certain posts as if the thousands of words weren't enough of a casual reader's deterrent. I allocate a couple hours a day some days for internet reading and the benefit does not outweigh the investment of time anymore some days.

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Only occasionally do I read, or even respond to the long winded tirades. I have to say it is fun to watch control issue people have so little control over others.

The result is usually this.

[video=youtube;_anYswmGMeM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_anYswmGMeM[/video]

The Truth said:

Let's see... one user here stands out as a pretty clear representative of the demographic being referenced here, and that is CLOUDCROFT. He openly supports "thinning of the herd."

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One anonymous poster among this group is not even representative of this forum, much less of society. So yes, I'd like some citations to back up the claim that "society cheerleads" the killing of the mentally ill if someone is going to make such claims.

The Truth said:

And stop the squabbling with WalkingWolf. That's another thing getting really old around here IMO.

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What gets old is a small number of verbal bullies running off those who are actually interested in making positive contributions to the RKBA/OC community. I've been around since a couple months after the forum started and don't care for the current tone being created by a few relative new-comers who think this is a general discussion forum for anti-government paranoids, a place to vent their various bigotries, or that every tiny disagreement over some fringe issue of RKBA is reason to start tossing out pejoratives like troll, traitor, statist, etc. Ditto those who think that a discussion should take place in 150 character bumper sticker posts. Those who want to have meaningful discussion should get off their stupid phones and get a real keyboard and monitor.

We used to enjoy some grand discussions and even great debates with not nearly the level of personal insults and sniping we get these days. We used to share working strategies and successes of making progress that helped buoy each other up through the inevitable losses.

Now we've got folks on here who actually think they should be bashing VCDL? REALLY???? I've never been a member but have personally benefited from their work as Virginia is a common destination for required work travel. I also recognize who it is that owns this site.

Yes, the squabbling with WalkingWolf is old. So he ought to stop the sniping and snipping and let bygones be bygones. He might also consider a bit civility in his posts, generally. Disagreement should be taken as some personal affront. And anyone who is really going to presume to chastise the parties to such exchanges, might at least pretend to be evenhanded in suggesting both sides knock it off. So on a number of fronts, you might look in the mirror for some of the sources of the noise that is drowning out the useful signal on this site, "Truth".

Charles

WalkingWolf said:

. I have to say it is fun to watch control issue people have so little control over others.

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Yes, my dear friend and brother constitutionalist. Isn't it ironic to see those who most strenuously object to government control, themselves trying to dictate how I should post on this forum.

Charles

Watching tantrums can be entertaining, but it is still pathetic.:lol:

WalkingWolf said:

Watching tantrums can be entertaining, but it is still pathetic.

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So true. Even when they are passive aggressive.

Charles

You're like a couple of kids!

utbagpiper said:

So true. Even when they are passive aggressive.

Charles

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Passive is not a tantrum, note the word passive. Tantrums and passive aggressive are two different behaviors, though they are usually traits of a narcissist, as well as self glorifying(god syndrome)...:lol: