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Thread: Survelllance of Gun Show Attendees

  1. #1
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    Survelllance of Gun Show Attendees

    In case you did not see this article in last week's Wall Street Journal

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/federal-...ows-1422398739

    and the NRA's reaction to it

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...show-attendees

    Apparently, the DEA considered using license plate readers to monitor who attended gun shows. I'm baffled by why tracking gun show attendance falls within the purview of enforcing federal drug laws, but ... it's not surprising (but seriously disappointing) that law enforcement agencies want to go to such lengths to monitor and track lawful gun owners.

    Unfortunately, monitoring gun owners and treating them like a danger to society is not new.

    While there are statutes to the contrary, I'm pretty sure that the information on the Form 4473 is stored and monitored in state and federal databases.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    <snip>

    While there are statutes to the contrary, I'm pretty sure that the information on the Form 4473 is stored and monitored in state and federal databases.
    Info on 4473's are kept at the FFL .. FFLs do not disclose this to the gov't automatically. When they close shop, they have to give the ATF their dealer books and forms not older than a certain age.

    However, at the point in time where a FFL closes shop, most of the information is old and pretty much not of much value.

    The ATF can come into a FFL business and look at their records but I know of no concerted effort to copy all FFLs records.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Info on 4473's are kept at the FFL .. FFLs do not disclose this to the gov't automatically. When they close shop, they have to give the ATF their dealer books and forms not older than a certain age.

    However, at the point in time where a FFL closes shop, most of the information is old and pretty much not of much value.

    The ATF can come into a FFL business and look at their records but I know of no concerted effort to copy all FFLs records.
    Prove it, beyond the written directive that this may be the case. Cabelas uses a e-form, that is connected to the Interwebz, that connects to the feds, when purchasing a firearm. All retail firearms transactions are undeniably registered firearms. Those who use pen and paper, not so much me thinks.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Prove it, beyond the written directive that this may be the case. Cabelas uses a e-form, that is connected to the Interwebz, that connects to the feds, when purchasing a firearm. All retail firearms transactions are undeniably registered firearms. Those who use pen and paper, not so much me thinks.
    Good point about Cabelas. I dont do business with them because of this. I wont do business with any firarms dealer that doesnt use good ole paper and pen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Apparently, the DEA considered using license plate readers to monitor who attended gun shows.
    As per the information revealed in a strongly related thread (why aren't these two merged???), the DEA wasn't considering it. It was a staff member's idea, floated by e-mail. Zero serious consideration.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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