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Snowballs? I'll blast your face off !

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
I'd love to hear that call.

If someone called and lied about a gun being present/used, there needs to be criminal charges brought up against them, no? Don't know if NY has any laws that could be used to prosecute it, but I'm guessing there are.

Also curious how the officer could be justified in drawing down on these guys even if there was actually a MWAG call, or whatever it is they're claiming. I don't think that MWAG calls justify holding up everyone in the general vicinity of the call at gunpoint - so what facts did he assess on scene that justified his use of force against these individuals?
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
I'd love to hear that call.

If someone called and lied about a gun being present/used, there needs to be criminal charges brought up against them, no? Don't know if NY has any laws that could be used to prosecute it, but I'm guessing there are.

Also curious how the officer could be justified in drawing down on these guys even if there was actually a MWAG call, or whatever it is they're claiming. I don't think that MWAG calls justify holding up everyone in the general vicinity of the call at gunpoint - so what facts did he assess on scene that justified his use of force against these individuals?

Where perzakly does http://thegrio.com/2015/02/01/ny-cop-black-teens-gunpoint-snowball-fight/ even begin to suggest that there was a MWAG call?

In Virginia throwing a snowball across the street can get you found guilty of either of two Class 4 felonies http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-154 or http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-279

I'm not going to bother looking up NYS law because the odds of me throwing a snowball in NYS are less than zero. But I'm willing to put some money on the fact that there probably is at least one law against at least part of what they were doing.

As for your questioning the basis for drawing down on someone with a snowball - it can become a deadly weapon if it hits you just right, or if you have molded it around a rock or it's really a slushball. I'm not saying drawing down was right or proper or necessary - I'm just showing that showing justification is easy.

stay safe.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Well,,,

I remember a couple winters ago, a thread here, with video.
Some kids throwing snow balls in a city, maybe NYC!
Sooo they hit a car, the car stopped, an off duty cop got out of the car,
Well,,, He pulled his gun and threatened to shoot the whole bunch of those kids!

Probably one of those "isolated incidents"......
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
I gather from the article they were not throwing at the cop, or threatening the cop with snow balls. They were it seems by the report having a friendly snow ball fight. Surely you cannot condone drawing a gun on children/young adults engaging in normal horseplay?

Do you have a description for missiles in Va law? Personally I think it would take superman to throw a missile, besides I think they are illegal.

The VA law is pretty clear that the missiles must put lives in peril/danger for it to be an infraction. Have we really so little common sense anymore? Is it any wonder we hear such stupid poop about zero tolerance in our schools? Personally those laws are to vague to be constitutional, and in no way does juvenile snowball fight come even close for the use of deadly force.

Is it any wonder we have children in cribs nearly burned to death? And other acts of shear stupidity in the name of laws?
 
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1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Well,,,

Years ago in Seattle, the cops wanted to stop a man from placing
leaflets under the windshield wipers of cars parked downtown,,,
Sooo they ticketed the man and threatened to arrest him for,,,

"Hurtling Missiles"!!!
I dont think the charges stuck....
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Considering how snow balls can become deadly weapons these little terrorist are plain lucky to be alive. Lucky since deadly force was certainly justified. Perhaps the officer was not in the mood for that kind of paperwork.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Where perzakly does http://thegrio.com/2015/02/01/ny-cop-black-teens-gunpoint-snowball-fight/ even begin to suggest that there was a MWAG call?

In Virginia throwing a snowball across the street can get you found guilty of either of two Class 4 felonies http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-154 or http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-279

I'm not going to bother looking up NYS law because the odds of me throwing a snowball in NYS are less than zero. But I'm willing to put some money on the fact that there probably is at least one law against at least part of what they were doing.

As for your questioning the basis for drawing down on someone with a snowball - it can become a deadly weapon if it hits you just right, or if you have molded it around a rock or it's really a slushball. I'm not saying drawing down was right or proper or necessary - I'm just showing that showing justification is easy.

stay safe.

"Talk of the Sound says they were told that the police call reported that there was a gun on the scene but the New Rochelle Police Department has not confirmed that."

"If someone called and lied about a gun being present/used ..."

Saying that having a snowball fight is justification for use or threat of lethal force is completely outside the realm of reasonability.
 

Jeff. State

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
650
Location
usa
Hundreds of thousands of armed people running around this country, seemingly in perpetual FEAR, is NOT a good idea. Dissolve Police forces nationwide! New York has shown that when cops stop doing their job, chaos does not ensue.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
"Talk of the Sound says they were told that the police call reported that there was a gun on the scene but the New Rochelle Police Department has not confirmed that."

....

The put the link to Talk of the Sound in there instead of leaving it buried in te other article. Responsible reporting and all that. I am not obligated to dig beyond your link unless you give me a hint that doing so is needed.

stay safe.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
....

The VA law is pretty clear that the missiles must put lives in peril/danger for it to be an infraction. Have we really so little common sense anymore? Is it any wonder we hear such stupid poop about zero tolerance in our schools? Personally those laws are to vague to be constitutional, and in no way does juvenile snowball fight come even close for the use of deadly force.

Is it any wonder we have children in cribs nearly burned to death? And other acts of shear stupidity in the name of laws?

In reverse order - those "shear" laws can be quite cutting. :p

Virginia case law considers anything you can heave as a "missle" - not restricted to to air-to-air or intercontinental tubes. Kids (mostly) have been busted and sent to juvie for throwing snowballs at cars, hitting a long one past the back yard left field and busting a window, and IIRC they tried to convict a 6-year old trying his first pass beyond 10 yards for hitting a on oncoming car - on the bounce! (The judge insisted that the spectators stop laughing when the Commonwealth Attorney described the henious crime he alleged had taken place.

For the record, because it seems I am now required to state it, I do not agree with how the law is applied in those cases. But the fact remains that it was sucessfully applied in most of them.

stay safe.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
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North Carolina
In reverse order - those "shear" laws can be quite cutting. :p

Virginia case law considers anything you can heave as a "missle" - not restricted to to air-to-air or intercontinental tubes. Kids (mostly) have been busted and sent to juvie for throwing snowballs at cars, hitting a long one past the back yard left field and busting a window, and IIRC they tried to convict a 6-year old trying his first pass beyond 10 yards for hitting a on oncoming car - on the bounce! (The judge insisted that the spectators stop laughing when the Commonwealth Attorney described the henious crime he alleged had taken place.

For the record, because it seems I am now required to state it, I do not agree with how the law is applied in those cases. But the fact remains that it was sucessfully applied in most of them.

stay safe.

No where did it state they were throwing at cars. Throwing intentionally at moving cars fits the description of peril/dangerous. A car is itself a moving object, and very dangerous if not in control. You said they tried to convict a 6 YO, I am guessing they were unsuccessful? And laughing in a courtroom is pretty much frowned on for any reason or anybody, I doubt the judge was defending the CA, or condoning his argument. But I have seen at least one judge laugh uncontrollably on the bench, my fault of course, but that is a long story.

For common sense to soak in we have to address lack of it, not make excuses for it. And I respect you but you probably should have made it more clear that you were not on board with the cops behavior.
 
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FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
Just like teen agers to bring a "snowball" to a gun fight! Off sarcasm.
I'm sure the officer felt threatened, apparently many suffer PTSD fits after seeing their shadows. Sarcasm really off now ;)
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Here a better link to the story & video. It appears police are saying they were responding to a MWAG and that the video is "creative mischief". Ok then - case closed. Sarcasm off

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/snowball-fight-gun-video-new-rochelle-police

Appears as if the cops are saying that the kids were not having a snowball fight at all just using it as a "cover".

Well, they can show a video to support this allegation?

Right now, I don't believe what any cops says...they are under no obligation to tell you, me, or the public the truth...so I assume everything that they say is a lie.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Appears as if the cops are saying that the kids were not having a snowball fight at all just using it as a "cover".

Well, they can show a video to support this allegation?

Right now, I don't believe what any cops says...they are under no obligation to tell you, me, or the public the truth...so I assume everything that they say is a lie.

They did not recover a gun, this sounds like a swatting. It has become obvious when a person wants to get attention from police they make a claim of gun in some form. It gets a police response where it might not normally. It is not responsible and the police encourage by not using their noggin, and not arresting those making the calls.
 
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