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Missouri bill would bar access to police camera footage

davidmcbeth

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They are all idiots ... some want 100% exemption , others "for privacy".

Idiots who know nothing of open records laws. Who is going to say it violates their privacy? An agency cannot say that a pic or video violates their privacy....so they gotta get names and addresses of everyone the camera sees?

And the amount of redaction? Huge .... so huge that the redaction process would take years for a single request.

No exemptions or exceptions....100% open.
 

Ezek

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If it can be used in a court of law for prosecution it should be available under the freedom of information act in regards to discovery in matters of legal litigation.
 

OC for ME

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If it can be used in a court of law for prosecution it should be available under the freedom of information act in regards to discovery in matters of legal litigation.
What it should not be is the property of LE. They may be the custodians, but they must not be the owner. If the recorded event is done outside a private residence, or private business in some circumstances, then it must be readily available to any and all who make a claim to it.

Personally identifiable data should not be released as apart of the recording if the request is not from a citizen who has legal (criminal/civil) standing to request evidence as a part of a defense or prosecution.
 

Ezek

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true, but court proceedings, and data, becomes public domain after the case is seen before a jury and/or judge. if information is released prior it could be called a mistrial.
 

Mo

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I hope my friends in Missouri haven't fallen asleep after the recent state legislature victories because it seems as if things suddenly got very quiet immediately afterwards.
 

OC for ME

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No, though I am conflicted on whether or not we really achieved a victory. We have expanded privileges to be sure which some see as a victory, where I see it as a step closer to victory...but victory not yet achieved.
 

kcgunfan

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So, this is interesting. I'm not sure that all video should be available to all people. I'm sure i could be convinced to fall on either side. But, if I have an interaction with the police, I certainly think it should not require a court order to get the footage.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

DeSchaine

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I think, for litigation and discovery purposes, all vids should be available BUT, the general public does not need to know what I have in my house should I have to call the cops over a break in or other similar incident. John Q. Public shouldnt be able to just file a FOIA request and get whatever vid they please. I think the exemptions need to be spelled out in a much more clear and concise manner. Something like "Any footage taken inside a private residence, or inside an area with a solid, privacy type fence is exempt from FOIA, but NOT exempt from legal discovery process, and if used in criminal proceedings wherein the suspect is found guilty, then such footage becomes subject to FOIA, but only after investigation and initial trial have been completed."
 

davidmcbeth

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I think, for litigation and discovery purposes, all vids should be available BUT, the general public does not need to know what I have in my house should I have to call the cops over a break in or other similar incident. John Q. Public shouldnt be able to just file a FOIA request and get whatever vid they please. I think the exemptions need to be spelled out in a much more clear and concise manner. Something like "Any footage taken inside a private residence, or inside an area with a solid, privacy type fence is exempt from FOIA, but NOT exempt from legal discovery process, and if used in criminal proceedings wherein the suspect is found guilty, then such footage becomes subject to FOIA, but only after investigation and initial trial have been completed."

Then any foul play by cops inside a bldg would be exempt .. so no, I don't think disclosure is proper.

There are already exemptions for privacy.

No need for any further exemptions.

Read your Act and understand it and you'll see that further exemptions or exceptions are not needed.
 

BB62

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Missouri needs what a number of other states have - REAL open records laws. Laws which allow municipalities to charge for research and the cost of duplication beyond actual photocopying/media cost are detrimental to open government.
 

davidmcbeth

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Missouri needs what a number of other states have - REAL open records laws. Laws which allow municipalities to charge for research and the cost of duplication beyond actual photocopying/media cost are detrimental to open government.

Before 1975, records were available under common law (and still are available under common law)...so the lack of statues is really not a barrier for most record requests. Failure to produce the records result in a mandamus action if it was a common law request.

As far as costs go ... agencies do not have to do research at all. They have to search for records. Search time should never be recoverable [otherwise they would store records in a manner that would require large $$ to search]. But this depends on your state laws for state records.

Never say research in a records request ... because you can only get access to records that exist, you cannot require them to produce a new record. Research = produce new stuff.

And FOIA laws are all about access ... should cost nothing just to gain access to records. I never ask for copies of records, only access to inspect. I have a crapload of records I have not paid a dime for.
 
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LMTD

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And FOIA laws are all about access ... should cost nothing just to gain access to records. I never ask for copies of records, only access to inspect. I have a crapload of records I have not paid a dime for.

Your not in MO.

They make it pretty expensive and real hard to do.

Some of the localities have even resisted sharing the ordinance book when not published on line.

There was actually a video online a few years ago where the cops came out and were threatening to beat the requester in the parking lot. His offense? He requested a complaint form but would not discuss the issue with the desk duty cop.

Corruption among municipal governing bodies is horrible here, it is what fostered the riots in Ferguson. Opinions may well vary on the Mike Brown situation, but rest assured the core problem is the fuel, Brown was only a spark.
 

davidmcbeth

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Your not in MO.

They make it pretty expensive and real hard to do.

Some of the localities have even resisted sharing the ordinance book when not published on line.

There was actually a video online a few years ago where the cops came out and were threatening to beat the requester in the parking lot. His offense? He requested a complaint form but would not discuss the issue with the desk duty cop.

Corruption among municipal governing bodies is horrible here, it is what fostered the riots in Ferguson. Opinions may well vary on the Mike Brown situation, but rest assured the core problem is the fuel, Brown was only a spark.

How so? Your state sunshine laws 610.011 seq are similar to other state's.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/ChaptersIndex/chaptIndex610.html

You can inspect records w/o costs.

And you can get $1000 for a violation...sweet.

Here's a clue: no one anywhere complies with the open records/open meetings law.
Occasionally I get a real gem that does comply.

I would be a millionaire in MO....
 
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LMTD

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How so? Your state sunshine laws 610.011 seq are similar to other state's.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/ChaptersIndex/chaptIndex610.html


I would be a millionaire in MO....

Might want to re-evaluate how rich you are going to get since they are going to charge you around 25 an hour to find the records for you.

(2) Fees for providing access to public records maintained on computer facilities, recording tapes or disks, videotapes or films, pictures, maps, slides, graphics, illustrations or similar audio or visual items or devices, and for paper copies larger than nine by fourteen inches shall include only the cost of copies, staff time, which shall not exceed the average hourly rate of pay for staff of the public governmental body required for making copies and programming, if necessary, and the cost of the disk, tape, or other medium used for the duplication. Fees for maps, blueprints, or plats that require special expertise to duplicate may include the actual rate of compensation for the trained personnel required to duplicate such maps, blueprints, or plats. If programming is required beyond the customary and usual level to comply with a request for records or information, the fees for compliance may include the actual costs of such programming.

Come on down and show us how its done Dave, this is the show me state after all.
 

davidmcbeth

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Might want to re-evaluate how rich you are going to get since they are going to charge you around 25 an hour to find the records for you.

610.026. 1. Except as otherwise provided by law, each public governmental body shall provide access to and, upon request, furnish copies of public records subject to the following: (added by me-noting MO section below)

(2) Fees for providing access to public records maintained on computer facilities, recording tapes or disks, videotapes or films, pictures, maps, slides, graphics, illustrations or similar audio or visual items or devices, and for paper copies larger than nine by fourteen inches shall include only the cost of copies, staff time, which shall not exceed the average hourly rate of pay for staff of the public governmental body required for making copies and programming, if necessary, and the cost of the disk, tape, or other medium used for the duplication. Fees for maps, blueprints, or plats that require special expertise to duplicate may include the actual rate of compensation for the trained personnel required to duplicate such maps, blueprints, or plats. If programming is required beyond the customary and usual level to comply with a request for records or information, the fees for compliance may include the actual costs of such programming.

Come on down and show us how its done Dave, this is the show me state after all.

Those are copying costs ... all states have this ... and this section is for fees for electronic records

**********************************************
in my state, for comparison:

Sec. 1-211. (Formerly Sec. 1-19a). Disclosure of computer-stored public records. Contracts. Acquisition of system, equipment, software to store or retrieve nonexempt public records. (a) Any public agency which maintains public records in a computer storage system shall provide, to any person making a request pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, a copy of any nonexempt data contained in such records, properly identified, on paper, disk, tape or any other electronic storage device or medium requested by the person, including an electronic copy sent to the electronic mail address of the person making such request, if the agency can reasonably make any such copy or have any such copy made. Except as otherwise provided by state statute, the cost for providing a copy of such data shall be in accordance with the provisions of section 1-212, as amended by Public Act 11-150.

and

Sec. 1-212. (Formerly Sec. 1-15). Copies and scanning of public records. Fees.
...
The fee for any copy provided in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act:


No fees for just access in CT. Link to our foia act's provisions: http://www.ct.gov/foi/cwp/view.asp?a=4161&Q=488540&foiNav=|

******************


But getting back to MO .... seems clear that these charges are copying charges and not charges to inspect records. Of course, some idiot judge could have always ruled that they are applicable to inspection too.
 
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LMTD

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Those are copying costs ... all states have this ... and this section is for fees for electronic records


But getting back to MO .... seems clear that these charges are copying charges and not charges to inspect records. Of course, some idiot judge could have always ruled that they are applicable to inspection too.

25 bucks an hour to research the 911 call, record it on to a cd in .wav form plus postage was the response to a 911 mwg call.

No estimate on number of hours it would take.

I am not saying it is legal at all, I am saying it is reality for a citizen.

If you do not have the time to take off work and go down to the office only between 9 and 4 then you pretty much are at their mercy or have a lawyer do it.
 
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