Central Virginia Criminal Justice Academy FOIA Results

skidmark · Feb 10, 2015

Jero1987 said:
You may be correct. However, I do not know what the scope of DCJS authority is.

Questions to be answered, can individual academies train on extra material besides what the DCJS standard is?

Does this specific course (Titled:Open Carry) fall under that scope?

I will have to clarify that with Mr. Staton when the time comes.

Lesson plans may "amplify" information or cover material that is not in the DCJS Standard. In order to do they they are sopposed to be submitted to DCJS for vetting and to ensure that the extra material does not reduce the time required for the core instruction.

Depending on the method of instruction and the depth of instruction it was possible to "cover" the minimum standards information for many subjects in anywhere from half to one-quarter of the time allotted. The additional time usually was used up in review or answering "What if A, What if B" types of questions - which did show the students were awake and thinking.

stay safe.

skidmark · Feb 10, 2015

davidmcbeth said:
I would not waste my time highlighting to them their errors.

US Citizens only? Really? So the constitution does not apply to all people with feet on US soil? No need for a trial for you Hanz ...

keep them ignorant.

The purpose of a FOIA request is so that public gains knowledge.

IGNORANT - a place in the dictionary where one may find david's photo.

Getting it wrong does not always end with a "Gotcha" moment. And even when it does it may take years and financial resources beyond what the individual can cover, as well as cause irrepairable damage to relationships along with physical and mental health. But heck, that's mere collateral damage. Got to break a few eggs to make an omlet and all that, amirite?

stay safe.

davidmcbeth · Feb 10, 2015

skidmark said:
IGNORANT - a place in the dictionary where one may find david's photo.

Getting it wrong does not always end with a "Gotcha" moment. And even when it does it may take years and financial resources beyond what the individual can cover, as well as cause irrepairable damage to relationships along with physical and mental health. But heck, that's mere collateral damage. Got to break a few eggs to make an omlet and all that, amirite?

stay safe.

Skid !

They aint gonna change nothing .. they are the experts, remember? I'd rather just use the info in testimony before he legislature to show that any testimony that they give is coming from morons.

Anyone who wants to see an example of showing that an agency is infested with morons, shoot me a PM ... I have some sweet testimony to give soon .. my collection of records and a report is ready for bombing ! Open bomb bay! I'll shoot my portion of testimony meant to make public officials look like total idiots. (its not hard to do lol , cause they are)

Jero1987 · Feb 10, 2015

skidmark said:
Lesson plans may "amplify" information or cover material that is not in the DCJS Standard. In order to do they they are sopposed to be submitted to DCJS for vetting and to ensure that the extra material does not reduce the time required for the core instruction.

Depending on the method of instruction and the depth of instruction it was possible to "cover" the minimum standards information for many subjects in anywhere from half to one-quarter of the time allotted. The additional time usually was used up in review or answering "What if A, What if B" types of questions - which did show the students were awake and thinking.

stay safe.

I just got off the phone with the DCJS directors office. I was told that individual academies can cover extra material as long as the minimum has been met. For example, my FOIA request would be acceptable because it covers a legitimate topic (although the accuracy suffers).

Just as I thought I will need to FOIA individual academies to get any extra material, that may or may not be used by that academy.

Grapeshot · Feb 10, 2015

skidmark said:
Last time I had to submit lesson plans to DCJS they were reviewed as to form. Content was never considered. (I know that back in the day (before dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was still young) they were all over content. That having been dropped I doubt they will ever go back to it - especially as so many of the folks there are covering multiple areas where they may have but a passing knowledge as opposed to expertise.)

--snipped--

That is a danged shame. Leave it to a state agency to screw up what works. :banghead:

davidmcbeth · Feb 10, 2015

Jero1987 said:
I just got off the phone with the DCJS directors office. I was told that individual academies can cover extra material as long as the minimum has been met. For example, my FOIA request would be acceptable because it covers a legitimate topic (although the accuracy suffers).

Just as I thought I will need to FOIA individual academies to get any extra material, that may or may not be used by that academy.

Possible that the records obtained are out of date?

skidmark · Feb 10, 2015

davidmcbeth said:
Possible that the records obtained are out of date?

Nope. That's the current version of the manual. I'm betting the lesson plan has not been revised either.

stay safe.

paramedic70002 · Feb 11, 2015

Looks like DCJS needs a wholesale enema if they are allowing such false information and speculation into LEO training.

davidmcbeth · Feb 11, 2015

paramedic70002 said:
Looks like DCJS needs a wholesale enema if they are allowing such false information and speculation into LEO training.

No hose/tubing big enough to correct the stuff I saw. Looks like they hired some guy from NYC to write that lol.

paramedic70002 · Feb 11, 2015

Some points on first skimming the document:

1. Fails to mention that ammo (etc.) is also forbidden by Code in a courthouse, although the Code section is later displayed.

2. Lawfully armed citizens are "more challenging" to LEOs than "bad guys." WHAT?!?

3. Fails to define "air carrier airport terminal." The Power Point only says "airport terminal."

4. There are a lot more places you CAN OC than are listed, so many that a list seems ridiculous.

5. Oh no, we gun nuts know how to FOIA!

6. They must think that VCDL membership is mandatory to carry a gun in VA.

7. OC is "unusual." Dang.

skidmark · Feb 11, 2015

paramedic70002 said:
Some points on first skimming the document:

Playing devil's advocate

1. Fails to mention that ammo (etc.) is also forbidden by Code in a courthouse, although the Code section is later displayed.
Heck, the Code was cited. Those dummies ought to be smart enough to pick up on all the details I didn't cover explicitly. It's part of the test to see if they can extract the necessary information.

2. Lawfully armed citizens are "more challenging" to LEOs than "bad guys." WHAT?!?
Everybody knows that bad guys are bad and therefore toublesome. You just don't know when those lawfully armed citizens are going to turn into bad guys. If that's not "challenging" I don't know what is.

3. Fails to define "air carrier airport terminal." The Power Point only says "airport terminal."
Hey! Everybody knows what I meant. What's with this pedantic insistence of precise word use? What are you, an attorney or something?

4. There are a lot more places you CAN OC than are listed, so many that a list seems ridiculous.
But if I don't put out a list I'm going to be swamped with "What if it's a __" and "What about __" questions for so long I'll miss my coffee break.

5. Oh no, we gun nuts know how to FOIA!
Why can't you bitter clinger right wing gun nuts just accept a compliment?

6. They must think that VCDL membership is mandatory to carry a gun in VA.
Well, since everyone that carries a gun is a VCDL member it sure looks that way, doesn't it?

7. OC is "unusual." Dang.
Yes it is. If it were "usual" everybody, not just bitter clinger right wing gun nut VCDL members and cops, would be OCing.

I took graduate level courses in speaking bureaucratese. It's not something everybody can become fluent in.

I also took graduate level courses in how a bureauracracy thinks and makes decisions. Sadly the research and practical evaluations showed that a bureauracracy does not "think" and all decisions are made in knee-jerk reaction to whatever is happening in front of its face at the moment.

stay safe.

ProShooter · Feb 11, 2015

If any of these academies would like for me to come in and instruct their recruits on OC, or any topic, I would be happy to do so......for a very modest fee, of course.

Having spent time on both sides of the badge, I may be able to get the message across more clearly.

davidmcbeth · Feb 11, 2015

skidmark said:
I took graduate level courses in speaking bureaucratese. It's not something everybody can become fluent in.

I also took graduate level courses in how a bureauracracy thinks and makes decisions. Sadly the research and practical evaluations showed that a bureauracracy does not "think" and all decisions are made in knee-jerk reaction to whatever is happening in front of its face at the moment.

stay safe.

Some of those classes "Spinning around until dizzy I" and "Spinning around until I am really dizzy" lol

Unintended consequences? never happens lol

Grapeshot · Feb 11, 2015

ProShooter said:
If any of these academies would like for me to come in and instruct their recruits on OC, or any topic, I would be happy to do so......for a very modest fee, of course.

Having spent time on both sides of the badge, I may be able to get the message across more clearly.

Think that would be vastly superior to the instruction they seem to be getting now.

Central Virginia Criminal Justice Academy FOIA Results

skidmark

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skidmark

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davidmcbeth

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Jero1987

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Grapeshot

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davidmcbeth

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skidmark

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paramedic70002

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davidmcbeth

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paramedic70002

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skidmark

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ProShooter

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