• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open Carry inside Chesterfield Co. Courthouse: citizens are intimidated

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Oh dear...

Rifle-toting deputy Sniper takes post at courts building -- Necessary or overkill?
The Sheriff’s Office began posting a deputy on the second floor overlooking the main lobby – did we mention the big gun, which looks like an automatic assault weapon, but is actually a .223-caliber pump-action rifle that holds a 30-round magazine? – a little more than two weeks ago.

The county sheriff, Karl S. Leonard, said the guard is there as a precautionary measure.

“It’s simply being proactive. We live in a different age today,” Leonard said last week, explaining that there wasn’t a specific threat or “special circumstance” that led him to create the new second-floor post at the courthouse.

Some, however, question the logic. Steven D. Benjamin, a wellknown Richmond defense attorney, said the presence of a rifleman is unnecessary – and intimidating.

“I have no expertise in courthouse security and must defer to those who do,” Benjamin said. “Now, that said, I wonder if there aren’t better ways to ensure that there is adequate security at the entrance.”

For example, Benjamin said, why not simply place another deputy at the entrance who isn’t responsible for checking in visitors?

Being seen is precisely the point, said Leonard, who is making no apologies.

“There’s no secrets here,” Leonard said.

Anyone here know the County Sheriff?

1p1.medium.jpg

[size=+1][strike]American[/strike] Chesterfield Sniper[/size]
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
I don't see a sling. That means he has to hold it by the pistol grip. Holding your booger hook flat alongside the receiver for extended periods of time can be painful. Waggling your booger hook or resting it inside the trigger guard relieves that pain.

How long is that one deputy going to stand there? What will he do with the rifle if (when) he moves around?

What training does he have? When was the last time he qualified with that weapon, firing from that angle? What, BTW, was the qualification course of fire?*

Since when is a pump-action .223 "standard" issue?

And a few more questions, but I don't want to overload anybody.

stay safe.

* - for reference, California Dept of Corrections tower officers train quarterly for shooting into the recreation yards and onto the fences, and qualify semi-annually. The inmates are cleared from the yard, targets put out, and the officers fire live rounds. Yes, the inmates manage to watch the qualification shooting from inside the cellblock.

stay safe.
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,467
Location
Dallas
doesnt look like a good angle to me if someone blows thru checkpoint wag


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I don't see a sling. That means he has to hold it by the pistol grip. Holding your booger hook flat alongside the receiver for extended periods of time can be painful. Waggling your booger hook or resting it inside the trigger guard relieves that pain.

How long is that one deputy going to stand there? What will he do with the rifle if (when) he moves around?

What training does he have? When was the last time he qualified with that weapon, firing from that angle? What, BTW, was the qualification course of fire?*

Since when is a pump-action .223 "standard" issue?

And a few more questions, but I don't want to overload anybody.

stay safe.

* - for reference, California Dept of Corrections tower officers train quarterly for shooting into the recreation yards and onto the fences, and qualify semi-annually. The inmates are cleared from the yard, targets put out, and the officers fire live rounds. Yes, the inmates manage to watch the qualification shooting from inside the cellblock.

stay safe.
He may well be using a single point sling attached to the middle of the long gun, although I've never seen such attached to what appears to be suspenders.
 

Wolf_shadow

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
1,215
Location
Accomac, Virginia, USA
I don't see a sling. That means he has to hold it by the pistol grip. Holding your booger hook flat alongside the receiver for extended periods of time can be painful. Waggling your booger hook or resting it inside the trigger guard relieves that pain.

How long is that one deputy going to stand there? What will he do with the rifle if (when) he moves around?

What training does he have? When was the last time he qualified with that weapon, firing from that angle? What, BTW, was the qualification course of fire?*

Since when is a pump-action .223 "standard" issue?

And a few more questions, but I don't want to overload anybody.

stay safe.

* - for reference, California Dept of Corrections tower officers train quarterly for shooting into the recreation yards and onto the fences, and qualify semi-annually. The inmates are cleared from the yard, targets put out, and the officers fire live rounds. Yes, the inmates manage to watch the qualification shooting from inside the cellblock.

stay safe.
I do see something that appears to be a sling. Runs over left shoulder under right arm to butt stock. [emoji6] I could be wrong though.

Sent using Tapatalk
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
He may well be using a single point sling attached to the middle of the long gun, although I've never seen such attached to what appears to be suspenders.

That coiled cord running across his back is his mic cord. It lets him reach up and key the mic without having to take the whole big, heavy, cumbersome radio out of its pouch.

stay safe.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
That coiled cord running across his back is his mic cord. It lets him reach up and key the mic without having to take the whole big, heavy, cumbersome radio out of its pouch.

stay safe.
There, we have it.

From left lower at belt line over right shoulder is the mic cord.

Over his left shoulder and passing just above his belt on the right side is an optional use of a single point sling.
Compare this image to the one of the sheriff's deputy.



Some prefer slinging the gun over their other shoulder, like this:


Note that both images appear to be right handed.





 
Last edited:

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
Hey that's great and posting in that spot makes it convenient for a bad guy to take him out and simply lower the weapons POA and take out the ground guards too.

This whole idea of: "we'll keep law abiding gun carriers afraid to exercise their rights." is pathetic, and as others have pointed out begging for a mishap.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Enough - Stop!

--moderator edited--.

David you need to leave Virginia statutes, Virginia Administrative Code, ordinances, and rules set by judges to those that have a much more intimate knowledge than you possess on the subject.

What you do in Connecticut has absolutely nothing to do with Virginia. Someone less knowledgeable might take your advice/remarks and misapplication of our laws to heart and thereby find themselves in a world of hurt.

That brand of hype stops here.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
David you need to leave Virginia statutes, Virginia Administrative Code, ordinances, and rules set by judges to those that have a much more intimate knowledge than you possess on the subject.

What you do in Connecticut has absolutely nothing to do with Virginia. Someone less knowledgeable might take your advice/remarks and misapplication of our laws to heart and thereby find themselves in a world of hurt.

That brand of hype stops here.

What "world of hurt" can happen from trying to gain entry with a camera? What? Worst case is that they turn you away, correct? Right?

No one cited anything in this thread....including you.

You need to apologize IMO


Also, I dealt with this issue in CT where they were NOT allowing me to bring in cameras, audio recorders, video recorders...I had them change the rule ! Below is from the court in CT that makes such decisions in respect to my arguments that recording devices must be allowed in courthouses ... I get things done ! So things can change but not by crying about my posts...

I wanted to let you know that we have discussed the issue that you brought to our attention, namely, that the judicial marshals in New Britain did not allow you to bring your camera into the courthouse. As we discussed, the Use and Possession of Electronic Devices in Superior Court Facilities now allows persons to have a number of electronic devices, including devices that can broadcast, record or take photographs. A directive will be going out to the marshals instructing them to allow persons to bring electronic devices that are listed in the policy into all state courthouses.



Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and for your patience in getting it resolved.


Regards,

Melissa



Melissa A. Farley, Esq.

Executive Director

External Affairs Division

State of Connecticut Judicial Branch


****************************************************************
Even VA has a FOIA Act ...

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+2.2-3707

Meetings can be recorded (camera/video/etc) and most courthouses have admin meetings required to be open meetings ...

And open records act too in VA .... that do not limit a person in videotaping or reading into a voice recorder notes of an inspection of records. Not all records in a courthouse are exempt from the FOIA Act.

A simple letter to the court administrator who promulgates rules should suffice...outlining why a rule (even if there is one) saying that no cameras, video recorders, or audio recorders are not allowed in the building violates your FOIA Act.....hop to it!
 
Last edited:

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
What "world of hurt" can happen from trying to gain entry with a camera? What? Worst case is that they turn you away, correct? Right?

While courthouse security personnel try to play nicely there is nothing preventing them from arresting you for trying to bring contraband (as defined by the stuff on the sign out front) into the courthouse building. The Chief Judge has the power and authority to set the rules for "his" courthouse and so far nobody has sucessfully appealed that. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+8.01-4 (It's a misdemeanor. I realized I had not specifically mentioned that and did not want you to say you missed it in the statute.)

It continues to astound and amaze me that the laws and rules in CT and VA are not identical. I know it must drive you [even more] batty.

As to http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+2.2-3707 - what public, open meetings can you tell me of that are held in Virginia courthouses? To my knowlwdge there are none because of the general prohibition against video and/or audio recording devices. Sneaky, isn't it - Making "No" mean "No".
 
Last edited:

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
The offer to pay transportation expenses is made again. Please come on down and 1) bring a video camera into the courthouse and 2) ask the deputy your question repeatedly.

I believe this is the third or fourth time I've seen you direct your "I'll pay for you to come show us how it's done!" taunting toward DM.
I have to say it's coming across as immature and even bullying. He's obviously not taking the bait so please stop.
 

va_tazdad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
I believe this is the third or fourth time I've seen you direct your "I'll pay for you to come show us how it's done!" taunting toward DM.
I have to say it's coming across as immature and even bullying. He's obviously not taking the bait so please stop.

Please DON'T stop Skid.

I can't wait for the wonderful wizard to come and fix all the problems he seems to think we have. A trip with free food, transportation and lodging should be enough for a normal person, but we ARE talking about McB. ( I rank his problem solving ability to be right up there with Tmac's)
 
Last edited:

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
I believe this is the third or fourth time I've seen you direct your "I'll pay for you to come show us how it's done!" taunting toward DM.
I have to say it's coming across as immature and even bullying. He's obviously not taking the bait so please stop.

I respectfull disagree with your characterization of taunting.

I want to receive instruction on how things ought to be done and how to get that to happen. It's not possible to do that by travelling up to CT. david needs to come down here and show us how to do it when dealing with actual Virginia elected officials and bureaucrats and judges.

From what I hear there are others that also want to receive such instruction.

And yes, there are a number of posters that do want to see him not only fail but suffer negative consequences when he applies CT tactics to VA reality. I can't help that.

I'd like to hear your considered opinion why david "is not taking the bait", especially in light of the legitimate desire to learn that has been repeatedly expressed.

stay safe.
 
Last edited:

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Twoskins...accusing someone of bullying David or Charles is like claiming animal cruelty for using lice Control medication.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Hmmm. With there not being any reason to get up and on the road before daylight the next morning it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

stay safe.
 
Top