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Open Carry inside Chesterfield Co. Courthouse: citizens are intimidated

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Colonel Ken King equates courthouse with the Pentagon

Anyone accept the analogy?

Courthouse sniper helps deter terrorists
I am a 32-year U.S. Army retired colonel and think this proactive measure [“Rifle-toting deputy takes post at courts buildings,” Feb. 4] is exactly what is needed. The tactic of placing a long-gun-toting deputy on the second floor overlooking the entrance and exit screening area is a page right out of the playbook of the Pentagon. Visit the Pentagon at any point, and you will not only see one sentry but may see multiple security figures each carrying a long-range rifle or shotgun overlooking the entryway.

This is needed if for no other reason than to deter potential threats; believe me, it does work. The terrorists are looking for weak spots and opportunities. Leonard made a critical comment in the article that I feel places this in perspective: “I don’t want to be in [a] position where I have to answer to the citizens after an attack why didn’t I do this beforehand.”

The Monday-morning quarterbacks will question why this is needed in today’s society, then will ask a similar question after an attack occurs: Why weren’t more prudent and proactive security measures taken? The bottom line is the establishment will be questioned either way. Therefore, go ahead and answer the mail now with proactive security and protect the citizens; few have been penalized for taking more proactive and aggressive security measures. Yet many have been penalized for not doing so. Drive on!

Ken King
Chesterfield

That misses the central point: why should law-enforcement be The Only Ones who may carry inside courthouses on Virginia?
 

skidmark

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Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
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Location
Valhalla
Besides the point raised by Repeater, I'm wondering: When was the last time someone attempted to run into a courthouse while yelling "Aloha Snackbar!" and causing a self-initiated kablooie? And if someone tried to do that how much good would the second-story sniper be in stopping them before they kablooied themself?

Of course it's possible that the first incident could happen at the Chesterfield County Courthouse - but realistically how probable is it? The Pentagon is a much more realistic target for that to happen - but again I ask just how effective would the snipers be in stopping the crazy person before they go all kablooie?

If somebody is going to try to sneak a firearm in so they can go to a specific courtroom and exact vengance/retribution on someone who will be there they will most likely not have that firearm readily to hand. Instead it's going to be concealed and the deputy on groper duty will in fact have the mechanical advantage over the person trying to sneak the firearm in. If that someone does not want to meekly comply with the deputy's instructions about surrendering there is most likely going to be some sort of physical struggle. Is the second-story sniper good enough to take out the BG while not hitting the deputy while those two are thrashing about on the floor?

It's Security Drama (A new episode every Wednesday. Check your local listings for the time and channel.)

stay safe.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
It's really pretty naive when you think about it. Even with that nasty manly woman running everyone's coat through the xray, it's a no brainer to get a small firearm in. The second floor is public and the thing for a determined suicidal person to do is walk up, shoot him and use his rifle for skeet shooting.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
It's really pretty naive when you think about it. Even with that nasty manly woman running everyone's coat through the xray, it's a no brainer to get a small firearm in. The second floor is public and the thing for a determined suicidal person to do is walk up, shoot him and use his rifle for skeet shooting.

If you are going to commit suicide by cop or get even with the world for __ there are so many better places to do it. To begin with, all the cell phones are outside the courthouse, so how can anybody video your being gunned down in a hail of bullets?

What this County needs is more donut shops!

stay safe.
 

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Excellent LTE

Well here's a Letter to the Editor that's worth reading:

Sheriff covers ‘hindquarters’ with sniper
Law enforcement circles the wagons!

When I first read the front page article in the Feb. 4 edition, “Rifle-toting deputy takes post at courts building,” there were several things that grabbed my attention and forced me to draw several conclusions. I am surprised that Mr. Allen [“Courthouse sniper or nothing? Not really,” March 11] drew different conclusions. Surprisingly, it does not seem as if Mr. Allen read the original article in the Feb. 4 issue. I am very familiar with domestic law enforcement use of force policies as I have worked with the California Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement, INS, U.S. Border Patrol, California Highway Patrol and the Department of Forestry, to name a few. I was not part of the threat assessment, but Sheriff Leonard gave us some insight into why he made the decision to add the deputy.

• “The guard is there as a precautionary measure.”

• “It’s simply being proactive. We live in a different age today.”

• “There wasn’t a specific threat or ‘special circumstance’ that led him to create the new second-floor post at the courthouse.”

• “If there’s going to be a threat to us, it’s going to come through those doors.”

• “So we know if there’s an attack, those two deputies won’t have time to react.”

• “Being seen is precisely the point.”

• “We want potential gunmen to know that this courthouse is a hard target and not a soft target. To sit here today in this day and age and to think it’ll never happen to us is poor planning, poor leadership….”

• “It was a culmination of events, the new reality that terrorist attacks are now and always a threat.”

• “I don’t want to be in a position where I have to answer to the citizens after an attack why didn’t I do this beforehand.”

According to the article, the deputy is armed with a “.223 caliber pump-action rifle that holds a 30-round magazine.” You do not need to be a special operator or retired FBI agent to know that a pump-action rifle in this situation is waste of taxpayer money. In fact, I would say that a deputy armed with this type of rifle in an armed confrontation in a crowded courthouse is a danger to the public.

Mr. Allen, there was no specific threat or a request from a judge. The sheriff was being proactive based on the “new reality” that terrorist attacks are a threat even though it’s almost 14 years after 9/11. Really? I stand by my original assessment. If you are going to do the job, then do it right. Sheriff Leonard, don’t use my tax dollars to cover your “hindquarters.”

Brian Dunn
Midlothian
 

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Sheriff Leonard wants additional $277,000 from taxpayers

Sheriff Leonard wants additional $277,000 from taxpayers for additional positions (including Sniper Dude):

County sheriff seeks additional $277,000 for new positions
When he took office about 14 months ago, one of Chesterfield Sheriff Karl Leonard’s first tasks was to launch a comprehensive evaluation of his department’s operations in an attempt to increase efficiency.

...

“We work for the citizens of this county,” Leonard said during a recent interview. “We owe it to the taxpayers to do the very best job with their money.”

...

Now Leonard is seeking about $277,000 in additional funding, which would permit him to convert a part-time captain’s position to a full-time lieutenant and hire four new employees in addition to the four already included in the county administrator’s $785.3 million budget proposal.

“There is no waste or fat in our system, and we take pride in that, but we’ve done all the trimming we can do,” Leonard said. “We’re at a point where we can’t do anything else without having a degradation of safety, and I’m not going to do that.”

...

“We have witnessed a number of attacks on government facilities and at courthouses. Because of the current security we have in our main entrance, we felt this added level was a necessity,” he said.

Leonard noted that his office has undertaken a major redesign of the courthouse’s main entrance security area – which, once completed, will eliminate the need for the “secondary security” position.

Until then, he thinks it is a need that must be met regardless of staffing limitations.

“To maximize our efficiency in staffing the secondary security position, we are having deputies do it on a rotating basis so as we do not deplete one specific area for any length of time. This position has not resulted in any additional costs to the Sheriff’s Office or citizens,” he added.

According to Leonard, several “external factors” have produced the dramatic increase in the sheriff’s department’s overtime costs.

The 2015 General Assembly approved three new judgeships in Chesterfield, but allocated no funding for the security of their courtrooms.

A change in state law governing protective orders – following the 2010 death of University of Virginia student Yeardley Love at the hands of ex-boyfriend and fellow student George Huguely – also resulted in a 20 percent increase of such orders statewide in 2011.

Sheriff’s deputies are responsible for serving protective orders and other legal documents in Chesterfield. They also handle security at the county jail, where a federal law aimed at eliminating sexual abuse among inmates mandates certain staffing levels but doesn’t provide funding for related personnel costs.

As a result, Leonard said, overtime isn’t merely voluntary in his department. Employees regularly are required to work extra shifts in an attempt to keep up with increased staffing needs.

First, he feels the current courthouse design is insecure ... so he wants a "major" redesign.

Next, he reveals how expensive it is to enforce so-called 'Protective Orders' -- who knew?

So, how expensive is armed self-defense?
 
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