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Thread: New to open carry

  1. #1
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    New to open carry

    Hello,

    I found this forum via COGO website and after reading a couple of post it got me to realize some of the benefits of open carry. I am somewhat new to being a "gun" guy, even though I've been in the military as an MP for about 9 years. My EDC is an M&P Shield and recently I've decided to start doing somewhat of an open carry and see how it goes. When I say somewhat, I mean carrying OWB in a Serpa holstet (not really concraled) 3 o'clock position. I figured on most occasions I can open carry and in the situations that simply warrant a little discretion I can put my shirt or coat over it thereby "concealing" it (serpa holstet prints a lot its not meant to be a concealed holster).

    My question for you guys that have more experience with OC:
    - Any negative feedback on switching back and forth with OC/CC?
    - Any questions regarding "printing" of your preferred firearm?
    - Aside from hightened awareness, my biggest concern with OC is the fear of having my gun taken. Any tips, specific training, etc to combat this?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    - Any negative feedback on switching back and forth with OC/CC? Some people are straight OC or CC, like you i tend to switch based on where i am going. I do greatly prefer OC for the many reasons you will find listed here. Who are you thinking would give you negative feedback for switching back and forth?
    - Any questions regarding "printing" of your preferred firearm? I too do this sometimes since i live on the border of OC and CC states. No one ever seems to say anything but i feel like it draws more attention than OC since you are making a veiled attempt to hide it.
    - Aside from hightened awareness, my biggest concern with OC is the fear of having my gun taken. Any tips, specific training, etc to combat this?It's an extremely low occurrence. The vast majority of those who would do you harm will move along to easier targets but my situational awareness has increased so much from OCing. If you're that concerned about it, utilize a level II or III retention holster but practice with it until it's second nature.

  3. #3
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    guambra2001,

    Sorry no one has responded yet (thought they WOULD) so I "must" (am in semi-retirement from these forums now) post something so you don't feel you're being ignored (or we're unfriendly here), especially since there have been 48 (!) views so far but no responses.

    But I can't address ALL your questions, but some, being a Coloradoan (as of the Summer of 2013, from Texas) and OC EVERY time I go out the door, in this here Great State of Colorado. :-)

    So, let me commence a-answerin' (no, I'm not a hick, just play one on TV, PLUS, I stayed in a Motel 6 last night, not a Holiday Inn Express)...

    1. As I NEVER CC here in Colorado, I can't address "switching back & forth." I DID CC in Texas, but since they (STILL) don't have OC there, I never "switched back & forth" so again, can't help you with that experience. So since I only OC "switching" is moot. I never go anywhere here in CO I even THINK I'd want to CC. EVERYWHERE I go -- except Federal Property such as the SS Office, VA Medical Clinics, Ft. Carson/Air Force Academy, and the USPS -- I OC. Please note that it takes people made of "sterner stuff" to OC, so if someone feels they're not up to it (or up to it YET), then just CC...and OC occasionally to get used to it.

    The ONLY time I use my Colorado CC permit is when I visit Texas. When I visit New Mexico, I just OC, as I do here. Only in TX do I CC...which is ONE good reason to HAVE a CO CC Permit: You can CC in other states (if they have CC permit reciprocity with CO) that don't allow OC.

    But for us "hardcore OCers" here at home in CO, we don't use no stinkin' permit: We just OC.

    Exclusively.


    2. "Printing" is another CC issue I can't address...except to say in MOST states, "printing" is a non-issue and a more imagined faux-pas than real. But seriously, since CO has OC, if you have a CO CC permit (from your County's Sheriff Department) and are CCing a gun, and it DOES print or the wind blows the shirt up, then what would it matter?


    3. OCers MUST have more SA (Situational Awareness) then CCers do, it goes with the territory, if you will. Beyond being more aware to NOT let anyone get too close to you in the first place, you could get a Level II Retention holster if you are that concerned, or, even a Level III Retention holster (but be sure YOU can get the gun out if need be quickly and under stress!). Also, where on your belt you CARRY your OC gun makes a difference. Some belt locations are easier for someone to sneak up and do a "gun grab" while other locations make that much harder.

    All that said, I believe someone else more knowledgeable will be here soon to chime in...I was just "priming the pump" here to get you some answers.

    But really...do try to make OC your primary mode of carry -- at some point at least.

    Good luck...

    ********************

    Oops...just saw that Kopis posted while I was working on MY post. And so this thread will continue with others posting shortly I'm sure...

    No, I didn't plagiarize anything Kopis said...didn't even see his post until I posted mine. That said just in case someone wonders why we said some of the very SAME things. Just a case of two gun-savvy people coming up with the same brilliant stuff. Independently. ;-)
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-12-2015 at 11:13 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  4. #4
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO and greetings from sunny, dry Arizona guambra2001!

    1) As Kopis and cloudcroft already said, some people almost always either OC or CC; I describe myself as an OCer who carries 99.999% when I carry (am forced to disarm by the AZ Board of Regents in order to be on campus). There shouldn't be any animosity from OCers here on OCDO provided you don't start bashing on OC while espousing the (dispelled) "tactical advantages" of CC. I say: if you CHOOSE to CC, so be it, just don't tell me it's for any other reason (obviously CC is sometimes the only carry option when OC is prohibited by local policies).

    2) Printing, should someone see it, gives one impression I can never reconcile with a Right: that impression is "I have a firearm on my person, but I'm hiding that fact for some reason you don't know." Also, some people are irrationally afraid of anything which makes them confront the fact that they have chosen to be easy pickings for a two-legged predator, so be careful (the recent WalMart story comes to mind).

    3) Situational Awareness is everything, and firearms retention practices (jamming your arm down on it, use of a weak-side knife, etc.) add to it. I carry in a Level 1 (friction only) retention holster, and got to dispel the "gun grab" myth to my uncle and two cousins the weekend of the Superbowl. Despite their best efforts, and a lack of physical resistance from me, they weren't able to "snatch it" (firearm was empty, triple checked to be empty). If you are knocked and have your sidearm taken, then it doesn't matter whether you OC with a Level 3 retention holster or CC (except you're less likely to be targeted by thugs who don't carry shiny badges if you're visibly armed).


    Here are some threads answering questions of people who were also "new" to OC at one time:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...37#post2059437

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...35#post2090735
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the warm welcome! I have "some" experience with OC being an MP at an Air Force base, carrying my duty weapon on a safari holstet on my leg. No biggie cause I don't have a badge per se, but clearly represent law enforcement of some sort.

    Because of this I've cc, on my personal time but realized that the most confortable, quickest, and most easiest way to carry was open carry. Now my only issue with doing this is now I will have people knowing I have a gun but they wont put one and one together in thinking ah ok he is good cause he is an MP bla bla blah.

    I don't necessarily want attention drawned on myself but do understand it comes with the territory. That is why I came up with the idea of carrying, mainly OC owb, and in cases where I need to conceal it (either real or perceived need) I can simply put my shirt over the holstet even if it prints badly.

  6. #6
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    guambra2001,

    Certainly you should carry however you feel comfortable: CC all the time, OC all the time, or a combination. Your call. Except never leave home without it -- but that goes without saying, yes? No? ;-)

    I can come up with about 7-8 reasons off the top of my head why I OC. I think most members here can, too. Probably a few more reasons on top of my 7-8. I won't write a brochure on all that here, but you can research OC and get a lot of info that way...besides people posting stuff here for you.

    As for "OCing and drawing attention to yourself," I already mentioned you need to have more "grit" to OC, as you MIGHT get disapproving looks/stares...or maybe even someone in your face about why you "need" a gun, it "scares" them or some other liberal nonsense. That NEVER has happened to me in the 1.5 years I have been OCing here, but I know it COULD. Frankly, however, most everyone here will tell you that most people don't even notice the gun on your belt! Even if they do, most probably think we some kind of LEO in plain clothes, or maybe even a retired LEO (who knows). I was in a Starbucks once in Albuquerque, and some people there thought I was "Homeland Security." Go figure, these Starbucks folks. ;-)

    We're not LEOs, of course, just We the People, and that's even MORE important/high-ranking! Even above our sorry POTUS. Isn't it time we act like Masters instead of Public Servants?

    ...which brings me to WHY I (and some others) OC...meaning, just 3 of the reasons:

    Reason 1: First and foremost, whether we CC or OC, we carry for self-defense. But that's a given, isn't it.

    But what differentiates OCers from CCers (besides being of sterner-stuff folks, of course) is we DO -- in a way, but not a BAD way -- WANT to attract attention to ourselves. Because if NO ONE NOTICES we're carrying, then how can we get any D&E done? D&E can ONLY be "dispensed" by OCers...never CCers, even though doing so helps the CCers, too (but they probably don't even know/think about that).

    No, I'm NOT bashing CCers, I just would like them to "get" why we OC and start OCing THEMSELVES -- at least occasionally. Additionally, we need BOTH groups -- CCers and Ocers -- to VOTE TOGETHER on issues, even if an issue doesn't impact CC directly or OC directly. We need to be united, not adversarial, as many CCers are towards OC presently all across America. Just look in MOST online gun forums, and see what happens when someone brings up Open Carry.

    Popcorn, anyone?

    So, OCers (and only OCers) have 2 reasons CCers do not/can't have -- D&E -- meaning:

    Reason 2. "D" (Desensitizing):

    -- We want the average clueless public out there to SEE LOTS MORE GUNS out there on the streets (but not in the way liberals mean that of course)...guns being carried by We the People, instead of LEOs only (I'd add "military" also but they are UNarmed, by orders all the way from the clueless TOP -- sad and pathetic that SOLDIERS can't carry, but that's another topic). So it's just LEOs and We the People armed out there. And so, we OCers WANT people to notice -- so they GET USED to seeing guns in public...and yet nothing bad happens!

    How outrageous is that? ;-)

    And, I'd like to see THEM carry, too (even if only CC because they can't get over people seeing their gun if they OC). I'd like to see MOST Americans carrying. Yes, criminals also carry, of course, but they do so ILLEGALLY...I'm talking about decent citizens carrying, not the trash, as they're going to do it anyway, and at great risk if they meet one of us. ;-)

    Plus, this is AMERICA, so we're NOT like any other country in the world. WHY would we want to be? NOWHERE else does a nation have these rights, so let's EXERCISE them. And let TOURISTS see what they DON"T have back in their own anti-gun/we-don't-trust-our-own-people countries. Maybe they'll want some "Hope & Change" for themselves. ;-)

    Reason 3: "E" (Educating):

    -- Because people SEE our guns (well, those few who NOTICE, that is), we have conversations about self-defense, the 2nd Amendment/RKBA, guns, calibers and holster...conversations we'd NOT HAVE if we CCed, as by definition, none of those people see our carry gun. But because they DO see it when we OC, some ask questions about it, and WHY we carry...which give us (and only us, being OCers) the opportunity to spread the "gun gospel" -- how many CCers out there could HELP us do this but don't...because they CC only, and so can't, even if enough of them wanted to OC (don't have any idea who many would, probably not too many. THAT needs to change). So we want to educate people re: their RKBA, and especially, about being able to OC in an Open Carry State (like Colorado) and OCing without a permit (many people think you need a permit to OC -- we correct them)...besides being responsible for their OWN protection and not relying on others (the police) who show up after it's all over.

    And some people THANK us for exercising our right to carry (last time I heard that one was @ the R.E.I. store on Woodmen).

    To repeat, we need lots more people seeing guns on people just like them -- decent citizens gong about their daily business -- and get over the fear (as per the sorry TV news media, celebrities, ignorant/pandering politicians, academia, medical "experts," and liberals in general due to their anti-gun agenda) of seeing a gun in public -- a gun "doing" absolutely NOTHING except riding in a holster, and being carried by a very normal person (Yours Truly excepted). And as I said, nothing bad happens.

    We need LOTS more D&E goin' on...

    Happy Carrying...however you do it.



    P.S. Now that you're here in Colorado, don't forget the "other" gun forum for Coloradans specifically: "ColoradoGunOwners." Not as active as here, but it COULD be...if more got involved.

    Oops! I just saw that you already stated in your OP that you know about the COGO forum...sorry! I'll leave this here though for anyone else reading this thread who doesn't.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-17-2015 at 03:11 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Thanks for the response, and I agree with you on all your points. Tbh I don't know why CC people are so against OC, maybe a fear of it?, perceived notions, etc. It took me a little to "understand" but I get it.

    I think having options is great, CC or OC, but you are right we should be together as a unified voice.

  8. #8
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    The only thing I can add is about the switching back and forth from Open to concealed . But then it is not much I can add there either. In the state of Oklahoma it is not a crime to print. We have our you can't go in there with a gun places like every state does. In Oklahoma if it is not prohibited to be in a place with a gun then for them to keep you out ( mean the gun out ) is to post it. If you chose not to leave they can call the police and it is just a trespass charge. But one thing I have noticed is usually gun people can spot a concealed carrier. I wear a serpa holster and cover it up at Church ( just out of respect for other people in church ) or if I have to go into someplace posted. But other than that no issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kinggabby View Post
    I wear a serpa holster and cover it up at Church ( just out of respect for other people in church ) or if I have to go into someplace posted. But other than that no issues.
    This.

    I agree, that's really the main reason.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guambra2001 View Post
    ... I have "some" experience with OC being an MP at an Air Force base ....
    OMG what's this world coming to? Last time I saw an Army MP on a Air Force base was Germany and it was so they could guard their Patriot missile battery, with the ammo locked in a can so the Army wouldn't loose, eat or sell it. which they still did on a regular basis.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    OMG what's this world coming to? Last time I saw an Army MP on a Air Force base was Germany and it was so they could guard their Patriot missile battery, with the ammo locked in a can so the Army wouldn't loose, eat or sell it. which they still did on a regular basis.
    Sorry I should elaborate I'm security forces , SF (not special forces), but most people are familiar with the word "MP", essentially we do the exact same thing as MP but with a wider array of jobs, i.e. K9, combat arms, raven, investigators, patrolman, sentries, etc.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    OK I feel better now. ex 81170.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member 325rto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    guambra2001,

    Certainly you should carry however you feel comfortable: CC all the time, OC all the time, or a combination. Your call. Except never leave home without it -- but that goes without saying, yes? No? ;-)

    I can come up with about 7-8 reasons off the top of my head why I OC. I think most members here can, too. Probably a few more reasons on top of my 7-8. I won't write a brochure on all that here, but you can research OC and get a lot of info that way...besides people posting stuff here for you.

    As for "OCing and drawing attention to yourself," I already mentioned you need to have more "grit" to OC, as you MIGHT get disapproving looks/stares...or maybe even someone in your face about why you "need" a gun, it "scares" them or some other liberal nonsense. That NEVER has happened to me in the 1.5 years I have been OCing here, but I know it COULD. Frankly, however, most everyone here will tell you that most people don't even notice the gun on your belt! Even if they do, most probably think we some kind of LEO in plain clothes, or maybe even a retired LEO (who knows). I was in a Starbucks once in Albuquerque, and some people there thought I was "Homeland Security." Go figure, these Starbucks folks. ;-)

    We're not LEOs, of course, just We the People, and that's even MORE important/high-ranking! Even above our sorry POTUS. Isn't it time we act like Masters instead of Public Servants?

    ...which brings me to WHY I (and some others) OC...meaning, just 3 of the reasons:

    Reason 1: First and foremost, whether we CC or OC, we carry for self-defense. But that's a given, isn't it.

    But what differentiates OCers from CCers (besides being of sterner-stuff folks, of course) is we DO -- in a way, but not a BAD way -- WANT to attract attention to ourselves. Because if NO ONE NOTICES we're carrying, then how can we get any D&E done? D&E can ONLY be "dispensed" by OCers...never CCers, even though doing so helps the CCers, too (but they probably don't even know/think about that).

    No, I'm NOT bashing CCers, I just would like them to "get" why we OC and start OCing THEMSELVES -- at least occasionally. Additionally, we need BOTH groups -- CCers and Ocers -- to VOTE TOGETHER on issues, even if an issue doesn't impact CC directly or OC directly. We need to be united, not adversarial, as many CCers are towards OC presently all across America. Just look in MOST online gun forums, and see what happens when someone brings up Open Carry.

    Popcorn, anyone?

    So, OCers (and only OCers) have 2 reasons CCers do not/can't have, such as

    Reason 2. "D" (Desensitizing):

    -- We want the average clueless public out there to SEE LOTS MORE GUNS out there on the streets (but not in the way liberals mean that of course)...guns being carried by We the People, instead of LEOs only (I'd add "military" also but they are UNarmed, by orders all the way from the clueless TOP -- sad and pathetic that SOLDIERS can't carry, but that's another topic). So it's just LEOs and We the People armed out there. And so, we OCers WANT people to notice -- so they GET USED to seeing guns in public...and yet nothing bad happens!

    How outrageous is that? ;-)

    And, I'd like to see THEM carry, too (even if only CC because they can't get over people seeing their gun if they OC). I'd like to see MOST Americans carrying. Yes, criminals also carry, of course, but they do so ILLEGALLY...I'm talking about decent citizens carrying, not the trash, as they're going to do it anyway, and at great risk if they meet one of us. ;-)

    Plus, this is AMERICA, so we're NOT like any other country in the world. WHY would we want to be? NOWHERE else does a nation have these rights, so let's EXERCISE them. And let TOURISTS see what they DON"T have back in their own anti-gun/we-don't-trust-our-own-people countries. Maybe they'll want some "Hope & Change" for themselves. ;-)

    Reason 3: "E" (Educating):

    -- Because people SEE our guns (well, those few who NOTICE, that is), we have conversations about self-defense, the 2nd Amendment/RKBA, guns, calibers and holster...conversations we'd NOT HAVE if we CCed, as by definition, none of those people see our carry gun. But because they DO see it, some ask questions about it, and WHY we carry...which give us (and only us, being OCers) the opportunity to spread the "gun gospel" -- how many CCers out there could HELP us do this but don't...because they CC only, and so can't, even if enough of them wanted to OC (don't have any idea who many would, probably not too many. THAT needs to change). So we want to educate people re: their RKBA, and especially, about being able to OC in an Open Carry State (like Colorado) and OCing without a permit (many people think you need a permit to OC -- we correct them)...besides being responsible for their OWN protection and not relying on others (the police) who show up after it's all over.

    And some people THANK us for exercising our right to carry (last time I heard that one was @ the R.E.I. store on Woodmen).

    To repeat, we need lots more people seeing guns on people just like them -- decent citizens gong about their daily business -- and get over the fear (as per the sorry TV news media, celebrities, ignorant/pandering politicians, academia, medical "experts," and liberals in general due to their anti-gun agenda) of seeing a gun in public -- a gun "doing" absolutely NOTHING except riding in a holster, and being carried by a very normal person (Yours Truly excepted). And as I said, nothing bad happens.

    We need LOTS more D&E goin' on...

    Happy Carrying...however you do it.



    P.S. Now that you're here in Colorado, don't forget the "other" gun forum for Coloradans specifically: "ColoradoGunOwners." Not as active as here, but it COULD be...if more got involved.

    Oops! I just saw that you already stated in your OP that you know about the COGO forum...sorry! I'll leave this here though for anyone else reading this thread who doesn't.


    Great post.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    i wanted to add that when i first joined this site, i was VERY unsure about OC and didnt do it for awhile. I finally read all the laws and learned that i could OC in TN with my AR CCW permit (i live 5 minutes from memphis). Anyway, i calculated i would "look" less scary if i started doing it with my 110lb wife. So i OCed out with her for some shopping one friday evening. We went to sams club, then home depot, then kroger. I actually remember it very clearly. As the evening went on i noticed one thing... no one else seemed to notice my firearm or even care for that matter.

    There are a lot of myths about OC that most CCers will refer to like someone will take your gun or you'll be the first one shot but the reality is, why do banks or liquor stores hired armed guard that OC? It's simple, it's a deterrent.

    Ill leave you with one example... I was getting gas after a late movie one night in memphis. I was OCing my G17. I saw two less than reputable looking guys start approaching me. They said "whats up" or something, i just turned strong side with my hand resting on top of the glock (but not gripping it) and said, "awww nothing much gents, how about you"... I saw them glance behind me and out of the corner of my eye, i saw a third guy turn away. I dont know to this day what they were planning or up to but i can assure you that OC deterred a crime that night. Now consider if i was CCing at the time... Could i have deterred them without drawing my firearm?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    i wanted to add that when i first joined this site, i was VERY unsure about OC and didnt do it for awhile. I finally read all the laws and learned that i could OC in TN with my AR CCW permit (i live 5 minutes from memphis). Anyway, i calculated i would "look" less scary if i started doing it with my 110lb wife. So i OCed out with her for some shopping one friday evening. We went to sams club, then home depot, then kroger. I actually remember it very clearly. As the evening went on i noticed one thing... no one else seemed to notice my firearm or even care for that matter.

    There are a lot of myths about OC that most CCers will refer to like someone will take your gun or you'll be the first one shot but the reality is, why do banks or liquor stores hired armed guard that OC? It's simple, it's a deterrent.

    Ill leave you with one example... I was getting gas after a late movie one night in memphis. I was OCing my G17. I saw two less than reputable looking guys start approaching me. They said "whats up" or something, i just turned strong side with my hand resting on top of the glock (but not gripping it) and said, "awww nothing much gents, how about you"... I saw them glance behind me and out of the corner of my eye, i saw a third guy turn away. I dont know to this day what they were planning or up to but i can assure you that OC deterred a crime that night. Now consider if i was CCing at the time... Could i have deterred them without drawing my firearm?
    You're right, I guess just getting over the fear of having it "spotted" or overall attention grabbing. I just clearly remember back in 2010, before I was into guns, a guy wearing the whole cowboy thing and walking around Manitu Springs wearing a big ole revolver on his hip. I noticed that no one really seemed to care, but as for me, I was entranced by the gun and have always remembered that for whatever reason. I am waiting for the arrival of my Serpa holster from amazon and as soon as I get it is OC for me. Thanks for all the info guys.

  16. #16
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    Try to keep this brief. Been OCing in Wisconsin and most western states for three years. Had one negative, got thrown out of a truck stop in Albuquerque while OC. First time I encountered that, did some things right, others could have done better. Post on here somewhere and never did get a call from TSA Corporate like they promised.

    Otherwise, I quickly became aware of how unobservant most people are. I will take just a little different tack and say I don't really want people to notice my OC unless they are giving me a heavy duty once over for nefarious purposes. I realize that is out of my control and a thin line to try and meet.

    I carry two different firearms mostly. At different times. P226 SAO in IWB. Nobody notices it, if they do it's NICE Glock! Funny how a big gun like a 226 IWB black holster with a black shirt or dark print pretty much disappears. I will stand strong side away from someone if it just the two of us and many people may talk to me for quite a while and never notice.

    Other gun is a 6" stainless S&W 686 Plus .357 in a cowboy type brown leather holster on my belt. Both on my hip. This gets NOTICED, but because it is a revolver, not black scary looking?or whatever people seem to be not bothered at all by it.

    I've had 100 to one or more positive encounters, lots of can you do that? Is that legal? A few say I CC and show me their firearm or pat their side. That always stikes me as weird. Have not had my gun stolen, or even attempted touched. Have not been taken out first YET! Do notice that people sitting, and children notice it better, as at eye level I suspect.

    I will say that I'm a 56 year old white guy. Always neatly dressed (blue jeans and collared shirt or better) when I OC. I'm nobody, but I am married to somebody who has some stature in our community and I do not want to jepordize her job, or income. I'm gone a lot so most people don't know me unless I tell them so it's not like I'm getting special consideration or anything. How you are dressed doesn't/shouldn't matter, but it probably does. I'm weird, I won't wear a shirt without a collar AND a pocket, so CC is more difficult and I just decided to OC instead of change the way I dress. Winter jacket removal CC to OC has not been an issue, say in a restaurant.
    Last edited by Wstar425; 02-13-2015 at 01:55 PM.

  17. #17
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    About people not noticing an OCer's gun...

    *I* am one of them!

    Yes, I'm not too observant, either! Unless I am specifically looking for people OCing -- or if the gun is huge, like that guy with the Desert Eagle at a Walmart -- I don't notice...but that doesn't mean I'm letting my SA (Situational Awareness) level drop. I guess it's just that I am "observant" when I NEED to be, meaning when it comes to picking up red flags/clues that some person(s) or some incident-in-progress may be trouble. OCer's are highly unlikely to be trouble, so even IF I do deliberately look for OCers, it's just for my own info, to get some idea how many people I see out there also OCing (or not). And since those OCers aren't TROUBLE, they're not on my SA radar, if you will. If that makes any sense...

    As for OCing when I first got here (from Texas), yes, it took me a brief time to get comfortable, especially when I OCed into several Wells Fargo Banks. Even the times I had my "transient thing" goin' on and looked a bit scruffy. And carrying a scary gun.

    But no one hit the hidden alarm button...so I guess my "innocent demeanor" and "warm & fuzzy" friendliness saved me those times...if my appearance might have suggested otherwise. ;-)

    It could also be I didn't notice anyone going for an alarm button because some of the "Welcome to Wells Fargo" ladies working there were quite distractingly attractive. ;-)
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 02-14-2015 at 06:54 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  18. #18
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    Another View

    Lots of good posts and thoughts. The 2nd Amendment really is a right, and not a privilege or something you should have to seek permission to exercise. "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" could not be clearer.

    That said, our government -- especially in Colorado -- believes that gun owners are dangerous and should have to prove to the satisfaction of federal, state and local government that they are can exercise that 2nd Amendment right. Background checks on transfers are an expression/belief by Colorado government officials that a significant number of people in Colorado are criminals seeking guns to kill/injure others. They believe that everyone who is denied a firearm saves lives.

    Magazine capacity limits reflects a Colorado government policy/belief that the people cannot be trusted with guns with a capacity greater than 15 rounds. The requirement that the local Sheriff approve concealed carry reflects a Colorado government policy/belief that the public cannot be trusted with guns, so government needs to approve it whenever the people choose to bear arms. It has not been that long ago (2011) that CHP holders in Colorado were maintained in the same database used by LE for felons and criminals. The rationale offered by Colorado LE was "officer safety" because you never know when a CHP holder will shoot a cop, so cops need to know who has a CHP so they can approach them appropriately (presumably, as they would an armed felon).

    If you think I'm crazy paranoid, go to any of the hearings being held on gun laws in Colorado and listen to the testimony of the CBI and the Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police and the legislators who enact the laws that govern us.

    When you carry, you accept a significant risk that you will be targeted by the anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment forces who are, unfortunately, our government officials in Colorado. That means a risk of arrest for trumped up charges and legal expenses to exercise your right to keep and bear arms. The reality of the world we live in is that government has unlimited legal resources available to them to prosecute the public and defend against countersuits in the form of taxpayer-paid lawyers and the local DA, and generally sovereign immunity in most tort claims. You, on the other hand, as a gun owner get to fund your own legal actions on your own dime.

  19. #19
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Living in TX you (currently) can only CC, but it is refreshing to travel by car over to VA OCing. I certainly feel self-conscious, but back in Texas you certainly know what you are missing in the summer months.

    I preferred to OC my Walther Ppq, as opposed to my Shield - would certainly find that easier to tuck under my right arm.

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  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    About people not noticing an OCer's gun...
    I'm usually well-attuned in noticing when people notice my firearm. Some people notice right away. For others, it takes a few seconds, a few minutes, and occasionally not at all.

    The reactions on their faces reflect thoughts ranging from, "Hmm" (common) to "Interesting," (uncommon) "Oh. A gun," (rare) and "Oh! A GUN!" (extremely rare)

    Despite thousands of such interactions, most have been indifferent and some have been wary, but no one has ever freaked out. I've had a dozen polite inquiries, and only two people have said anything negative about firearms. One said, "I'll have you know, I don't like guns," to which I replied, "Well, I don't like criminals," and we both laughed.

    Most people notice. Most people don't care.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  21. #21
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    A little update, received my serpa holster level 2, I've open carried my shield and since it's such a slim gun it didn't seem that people took notice. Definotely felt aware if not a little paranoid but it got "normal" after a couple of hours. I assume the more I carry, the easier it will be. I've been carrying "open" for my job and tbh I don't even notice my M9 strapped to my right leg, it's just part of what I do.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I'm usually well-attuned in noticing when people notice my firearm. Some people notice right away. For others, it takes a few seconds, a few minutes, and occasionally not at all.

    The reactions on their faces reflect thoughts ranging from, "Hmm" (common) to "Interesting," (uncommon) "Oh. A gun," (rare) and "Oh! A GUN!" (extremely rare)

    Despite thousands of such interactions, most have been indifferent and some have been wary, but no one has ever freaked out. I've had a dozen polite inquiries, and only two people have said anything negative about firearms. One said, "I'll have you know, I don't like guns," to which I replied, "Well, I don't like criminals," and we both laughed.

    Most people notice. Most people don't care.
    Nicely stated, my experiences are similar. You can tell many times exactly when people notice. I suppose there are some people that notice and show no change, so I put them in the "did not notice" column.

    I suspect this is different somewhat from state to state. In Wisconsin, I've asked people where they are from, and the vast majority of people with reactions that I talk to are from Illinois up here on vacation. Even then it has not happened to have someone real distressed. I was talking to one man about my firearm while his wife? Was quickly ushering the kids back to the car. I asked him if that was because of my firearm? He said probably, but he continued to talk to me for some time. I expect he got an earful when he got back to the car! Probably not a convert that day.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wstar425 View Post
    Nicely stated, my experiences are similar. You can tell many times exactly when people notice. I suppose there are some people that notice and show no change, so I put them in the "did not notice" column.

    I suspect this is different somewhat from state to state. In Wisconsin, I've asked people where they are from, and the vast majority of people with reactions that I talk to are from Illinois up here on vacation. Even then it has not happened to have someone real distressed. I was talking to one man about my firearm while his wife? Was quickly ushering the kids back to the car. I asked him if that was because of my firearm? He said probably, but he continued to talk to me for some time. I expect he got an earful when he got back to the car! Probably not a convert that day.
    Who knows what effects a polite conversation well have in the future. I see such encounters on the positive side.
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