Changes to OC?

LMTD · Feb 24, 2015

Ezek said:
but I still feel the chief was playing politics by allowing it, as is obvious by the challenge of the amendment.

Libtards outline and push laws on how they "feel" sir.

Dotson had prior notice of approximately 45 days of the event with an agreement to meet prior to the walk and affect an arrest before the walk took place. The city atty as well as the atty general of the state were offered the same thing, a peaceful and uneventful surrender.

There are some plausible thoughts on his motives that have value and merit to a debate, none have been brought forward and you look like your just talking out of your ass about things you have not learned enough about yet to have a decent position to even discuss.

They didn't act on it because they didn't have a legal path to do so and they knew it would be a huge high profile loss and clearly the people involved were more than willing to make it very high profile post event as well.

color of law · Feb 25, 2015

Ezek,

It is quite evident that you are young and inexperienced. In my 65 years I have had many dealings with knowitalls. And you, young man, is a knowitall. You have time to change that attitude. Yes, ask questions to learn, but you didn't do that. Your statements came across loud and clear as someone who does not do their homework and it shows.

There are some of us on these forums that have many years of organizing these types of walks, some involved in organizing these walks have legal backgrounds. You get my drift? So, I suggest you may want to rethink and adjust your knowitall attitude.

Also, sentences start with capital letters.

Ezek · Feb 25, 2015

color of law said:
Ezek,

It is quite evident that you are young and inexperienced. In my 65 years I have had many dealings with knowitalls. And you, young man, is a knowitall. You have time to change that attitude. Yes, ask questions to learn, but you didn't do that. Your statements came across loud and clear as someone who does not do their homework and it shows.

There are some of us on these forums that have many years of organizing these types of walks, some involved in organizing these walks have legal backgrounds. You get my drift? So, I suggest you may want to rethink and adjust your knowitall attitude.

Also, sentences start with capital letters.

You would be correct in your assumption that I am probably a younger member, and as a younger member, and an initially curious member, all I got from a majority of people when I first joined was nothing but a bunch of crap, overzealous, hyper opinionated, crap. So sorry if my first impression was a bunch of "right wing slightly extreme zealots" populate this forum. do I still think that, to a degree yes, some people seem cool though.

Do I know all the legalities, laws, loopholes, and what have you? No I do not, do I know who all has provided protests/walks/ proactive movements? no I do not, I reacted on an as seen basis, IE I saw what was presented and reacted as such, it is not always the wisest way to go however, and it is a behavioral trend I have had many years. It is a boon and a bane, just depends on the situation.

As far as doing my homework, what percentage of the populace open carries at any one time in Missouri? I have gone out and purposely looked for people to have a sidearm strapped to their hip. and I don't see too many doing it. I however have seen people who are harassed almost endlessly when they do, and uncomfortable feeling people around you can make your day one in a proverbial hell, in dealing with LEO's who don't know their own municipal code, and what it allows or disallows. so you wind up arrested and charged first, apologized to later.

I will admit I am an uneasy person when it comes to open carrying, I do not want the hassle at this time. I have OC'ed a few times but mostly on my own property or when I am locking up shop.

If you feel I'm talking out of my ass, well then excuse me, I take what I read from many news sources, form my opinion and voice it. if your offended by it, I apologize, but I'm really not here to please, and/or live my life, for anyone, and that includes you.

you are older, and have many more experiences in life then I do, and I hope you can share them so I can learn from you. But if your only intent is to be condescending, then don't waste your time or mine please.

LMTD · Feb 25, 2015

Ezek said:
If you feel I'm talking out of my ass, well then excuse me, I take what I read from many news sources, form my opinion and voice it. if your offended by it, I apologize, but I'm really not here to please, and/or live my life, for anyone, and that includes you.

you are older, and have many more experiences in life then I do, and I hope you can share them so I can learn from you. But if your only intent is to be condescending, then don't waste your time or mine please.

Couple of extra items to note:

1. you can't offend me, I do not even know you and certainly do not grant strangers any control over my own emotions. Might give that a shot yourself, since you are at least interested in gun advocacy you need to learn that as you are going to be barraged with utter stupidity as you delve deeper into it.

2. I said "looks like" your talking out of your ass. You can opt to be offended by granting me that kind of power, but instead, take it as advice saying "think a lot more and reread what you post and look at it from a perspective other than your own" and if it can be mistaken for an alternate meaning consider revising.

3. That was not condescending, you may have received it that way and that is exactly what I am talking about, perhaps I should have considered revising myself, but and its a big but, I don't bother with such things at all, just kind of an INTJ personality type problem, you can look past it and learn or you can let it bother you and simply ignore, your own call.

Dale Carnegie wrote a book, "how to win friends and influence people" and sir, I only read the second half

BB62 · Feb 28, 2015

Ezek,

For your reading pleasure: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_59c7444f-1f6a-5ac7-aa5c-ec8bf4af09a0.html

(there is also a thread here in the MO forum on the same article).

Ezek · Feb 28, 2015

BB62 said:
Ezek,

For your reading pleasure: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_59c7444f-1f6a-5ac7-aa5c-ec8bf4af09a0.html

(there is also a thread here in the MO forum on the same article).

Ok, so on a state level the persecution has failed, but if taken to a federal court for review, I have a feeling it will be different outcome.

Although I'm not sure if they can as they where charged and the case was dismissed from a court of law.

Could they try to take the charge to a federal level or once the initial charge is dismissed you are free from it entirely? ( you know kind of the pretext of the double jeopardy movie, couldn't be charged again because was already charged with it once.)

I also noticed something, they rounded up the word felon and gave the entirety of people with felony convictions the term "dangerous". go figure.

But don't think the chief subject you where eluding to was lost with the fact that if they are unwilling to prosecute a felon based on A5 they will be even less likely to prosecute an individual open carrying who is not a felon.

oh and LM, I don't really want friends, I'm actually fairly reclusive, in the larger social sense.

OC for ME · Mar 2, 2015

All smoke and mirrors. Dotson et al will do anything to keep guns from being in public view...unless you are of the state. Sadly, many folks agree with this sentiment, even political critters.

kcgunfan · Mar 2, 2015

Here's a clue, federal courts don't enforce state laws. What federal law has this gentleman broken?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Ezek · Mar 2, 2015

kcgunfan said:
Here's a clue, federal courts don't enforce state laws. What federal law has this gentleman broken?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I thought the felon in possession of firearm law/charge was federal originally.

and yes gutshot, it probably is, after all if I where to call most/any of you friends, in my opinion, I wouldn't need enemies as the general sentiment here seems to be combative enough.

Richieg150 · Mar 4, 2015

Ezek;2129614 So sorry if my first impression was a bunch of "right wing slightly extreme zealots" populate this forum. As far as doing my homework said:
Zealot: : a person who has very strong feelings about something (such as religion or politics) and who wants other people to have those feelings : a zealous person.

Guilty as Charged..... Conservative, Right wing, hetero sexual, married, white, Born in the USA, Christian, Constitution Supporting .... Zealot. You talk like that is a bad thing? I guess your point may be, that being a zealot is OK, but when you cross the Extreme line, something is wrong, and who sets this standard of being Extreme. This country was founded on Zealots. By their action many would call them Extreme, thank goodness they were.

I have been OC'ing for quite along time. KNOCK ON WOOD, I have never been wrestled to the ground, and haven't been hassled or harassed for several years now. I have never worried about making people feel uncomfortable, that will happen no matter what you do. I think the most important thing I have learned while OC'ing is how you conduct yourself, carry yourself, and how you are dressed. I try to make eye contact with those around me, say hi, be pleasant, and act normal. I usually wear cargo pants because I love the pockets, you can never have too many pockets . MOST wont strap a sidearm on their hip, it will be around their waste area. I prefer to wear my Blackhawk drop leg holster, instead of one on my side, because of an issue with my right hip.. Most of the time, someone will look at me, my sidearm, and most of the time I will make eye contact, maybe speak and say hi, and that's the end of the conversation.

The most often question I am asked is if I am LEO, I reply no, and most of the time that's as far as it goes. The last time I had a concerned citizen, was at a hardware store. The lady was elderly about 70, when I walked out of the store, she was parked in the HC stall and rolled her window down and made it a point to tell me that me wearing a WEAPON didn't make her feel safe. I told her I was sorry that I made her feel that way, but I wasn't wearing it to make her feel safe. I was wearing it to protect myself and those I hold dear, have a nice day.

We are out there, and many are testing out the waters. Keep on Keeping on....

Ezek · Mar 4, 2015

Richieg150 said:
Zealot: : a person who has very strong feelings about something (such as religion or politics) and who wants other people to have those feelings : a zealous person.

Guilty as Charged..... Conservative, Right wing, hetero sexual, married, white, Born in the USA, Christian, Constitution Supporting .... Zealot. You talk like that is a bad thing? I guess your point may be, that being a zealot is OK, but when you cross the Extreme line, something is wrong, and who sets this standard of being Extreme. This country was founded on Zealots. By their action many would call them Extreme, thank goodness they were.

I have been OC'ing for quite along time. KNOCK ON WOOD, I have never been wrestled to the ground, and haven't been hassled or harassed for several years now. I have never worried about making people feel uncomfortable, that will happen no matter what you do. I think the most important thing I have learned while OC'ing is how you conduct yourself, carry yourself, and how you are dressed. I try to make eye contact with those around me, say hi, be pleasant, and act normal. I usually wear cargo pants because I love the pockets, you can never have too many pockets . MOST wont strap a sidearm on their hip, it will be around their waste area. I prefer to wear my Blackhawk drop leg holster, instead of one on my side, because of an issue with my right hip.. Most of the time, someone will look at me, my sidearm, and most of the time I will make eye contact, maybe speak and say hi, and that's the end of the conversation.

The most often question I am asked is if I am LEO, I reply no, and most of the time that's as far as it goes. The last time I had a concerned citizen, was at a hardware store. The lady was elderly about 70, when I walked out of the store, she was parked in the HC stall and rolled her window down and made it a point to tell me that me wearing a WEAPON didn't make her feel safe. I told her I was sorry that I made her feel that way, but I wasn't wearing it to make her feel safe. I was wearing it to protect myself and those I hold dear, have a nice day.

We are out there, and many are testing out the waters. Keep on Keeping on....

This is actually one of the few NON combative replies I've seen, and it is also in my opinion well thought out.

Thank you for it.

I am one of the few testing out the waters, unfortunately it makes my significant other nervous because of the little one. She fears something MAY or CAN happen, and in light of that I have tried to alter carrying and do different training to include chambering a round with the draw of the sidearm. She still isn't convinced however, and I have to respect this. I also see her side of the argument, and do not want in any way for my child to be harmed by my sidearm. I am also just currently getting into the whole "rights granted in the constitution" bit seriously as I am seeing more and more encroachments.
I am still fighting the stigma that was drilled into my generation and still altering my perception to the difference of law and color of law. I have a long way to go.

however I am commonly called a cynic, so maybe it won't be extremely hard to make the jumps required.

I will also address the extreme comment, and acknowledge that everyone, I believe, has their own line "drawn in the sand" for what falls into the realm of normal, and what falls into the extreme. So the line varies between individuals and is not preset at a determined level. As such, my line as it sits currently, was crossed by leaps and bounds, when I first introduced myself, by many members here. so it was at best overwhelming, enraging, and offending.

But here is the thing, you will not always sway someone to your point of view, especially if your combative about it, and drill someone for not thinking the way you do. In fact you may even push them to the side opposing your views by doing so. You catch many more flies with honey then vinegar. IE your post, versus a lot of others posts, but I digress, many are old, cranky, and cantankerous it seems, probably due to the weather, and arthritis.

LMTD · Mar 4, 2015

Ezek said:
IE your post, versus a lot of others posts, but I digress, many are old, cranky, and cantankerous it seems, probably due to the weather, and arthritis.

Read it above, now read it again, now read it one more time and take note you are blaming your own inabilities to comprehend and understand others on others instead of working to improve your own position.

There are plenty of folks around here whom hold differing positions and have effective discussions on such topics without such problems, you might consider the common thread in your misunderstandings with so many whom have been involved for years and sir that common thread is YOU.

Owning the problem is the first step to fixing it and it seems you are content not to grow and just blame others.

clue <==== print it out and put it in your pocket so you have one.

Grapeshot · Mar 6, 2015

LMTD said:
Read it above, now read it again, now read it one more time and take note you are blaming your own inabilities to comprehend and understand others on others instead of working to improve your own position.

There are plenty of folks around here whom hold differing positions and have effective discussions on such topics without such problems, you might consider the common thread in your misunderstandings with so many whom have been involved for years and sir that common thread is YOU.

Owning the problem is the first step to fixing it and it seems you are content not to grow and just blame others.

clue <==== print it out and put it in your pocket so you have one.

Possibly so.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so too is the lack of it.

What grows and expands the more of it you use?.......Truth.........Freedom.

You can't have one, you can't have none, without the oooother.

Ezek · Mar 6, 2015

LMTD :

Originally Posted by Ezek

IE your post, versus a lot of others posts, but I digress, many are old, cranky, and cantankerous it seems, probably due to the weather, and arthritis.
Read it above, now read it again, now read it one more time and take note you are blaming your own inabilities to comprehend and understand others on others instead of working to improve your own position.

There are plenty of folks around here whom hold differing positions and have effective discussions on such topics without such problems, you might consider the common thread in your misunderstandings with so many whom have been involved for years and sir that common thread is YOU.

Owning the problem is the first step to fixing it and it seems you are content not to grow and just blame others.

clue <==== print it out and put it in your pocket so you have one. end quote.

Sir, I have already told you, if your going to be condescending ( and you are) don't waste my time or yours, your opinions, due to your word usage do not have any meaning with me, nor do you hereby have any of my respect. I do not care what you have done in the past, what protests you have taken part of or organized, my timeframe of caring what you have done starts at when I joined this forum and how you have presented yourself since.

You obviously also missed the smiley face whereby it indicated I was joking with that comment.

One more thing, understanding internet words is based on assumed perception, there is no tone or body language to verify intention. do I not understand others? in a way yes, I don't understand the severity and solidity of their positions, and why anyone differing in their views from them must be "dealt with and punished" as that is how you, and others structure your replies and sentences to respond, or at least that is how it is most easily interpreted to be. I might be the problem, then again, I'm also standing alone with my views and my opinions, you don't like them, oh well, what does it matter to me? I will stand by what I believe and you will stand by what you believe.

So let's agree to disagree as we will continue to do so, endlessly even, because my views, and opinions aren't as far reaching as yours in my opinion, nor are they as ingrained.

Grapeshot · Mar 6, 2015

Ezek said:
LMTD :

Sir, I have already told you, if your going to be condescending ( and you are) don't waste my time or yours, your opinions, due to your word usage do not have any meaning with me, nor do you hereby have any of my respect. I do not care what you have done in the past, what protests you have taken part of or organized, my timeframe of caring what you have done starts at when I joined this forum and how you have presented yourself since.

You obviously also missed the smiley face whereby it indicated I was joking with that comment.

One more thing, understanding internet words is based on assumed perception, there is no tone or body language to verify intention. do I not understand others? in a way yes, I don't understand the severity and solidity of their positions, and why anyone differing in their views from them must be "dealt with and punished" as that is how you, and others structure your replies and sentences to respond, or at least that is how it is most easily interpreted to be. I might be the problem, then again, I'm also standing alone with my views and my opinions, you don't like them, oh well, what does it matter to me? I will stand by what I believe and you will stand by what you believe.

So let's agree to disagree as we will continue to do so, endlessly even, because my views, and opinions aren't as far reaching as yours in my opinion, nor are they as ingrained.

You are entirely too dismissive, do not give credit where it is due, and claim too much for yourself. We are all judged by what others see of us - that may not affect you, but it is nevertheless a fact.

color of law · Mar 6, 2015

Ezek = EYE95......????

Seems possible.....

Ezek · Mar 7, 2015

Grapeshot said:
You are entirely too dismissive, do not give credit where it is due, and claim too much for yourself. We are all judged by what others see of us - that may not affect you, but it is nevertheless a fact.

I could type a novel, and I did, but I will just summarize: Meh i agree with part of your statement, the part I don't agree with is bolded, i have nothing to really claim so.. that is why I disagree

Grapeshot · Mar 7, 2015

Ezek said:
I could type a novel, and I did, but I will just summarize: Meh i agree with part of your statement, the part I don't agree with is bolded, i have nothing to really claim so.. that is why I disagree

Fair enough. Hope you stay around and continue to contribute. Good fortune to you.

LMTD · Mar 7, 2015

Ezek said:
LMTD :

You obviously also missed the smiley face whereby it indicated I was joking with that comment.

So let's agree to disagree as we will continue to do so, endlessly even, because my views, and opinions aren't as far reaching as yours in my opinion, nor are they as ingrained.

You are correct, I failed to see the humor, I will take your word on it.

You might want to think about your views not being so far reaching, that is kind of the whole point.

You are mistaken in your theory that I am being condescending, I am nearly an artist at it once I get started

Ezek · Mar 9, 2015

LMTD said:
You are correct, I failed to see the humor, I will take your word on it.

You might want to think about your views not being so far reaching, that is kind of the whole point.

You are mistaken in your theory that I am being condescending, I am nearly an artist at it once I get started

So you are an artist at being cranky and cantankerous? :lol:

Changes to OC?

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