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Washington: Radical Anti-Gun Bill to be Heard in Committee This Week

jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
Not paranoia, just Common Sense.

You already have one outrageous law passed this year and now you think we need more laws? OK. Got it. Brilliant.

I don't consider the background check law an outrageous law just some of the wording that was included in it as far as letting my friend shoot my guns

there are a hundred murders a year in Washington State this law might stop some of them from happening and if it doesn't restrict law abiding citizens gun rights I don't see where it hurts anything and I do see where it helps things.

change is going to come. all you can do is participate in the process and protect your rights.

we are all law abiding citizens here, this law will help people that are going through mental issues of self control and anger management control themselves for a period of 48 hours or 14 days or 1 year and give them time to make the mental transition from whatever hardship they're going through ie post traumatic stress ie divorce.it keeps the rest of us safe and keeps our gun rights safe by these mentally handicapped people being helped through their struggle.
 
Last edited:

jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2015-16/Pdf/Bills/House Bills/1857-S.pdf

First, here's the list of who can request the order (pages 1 and 2):

17 NEW SECTION. Sec. 2. For the purposes of this chapter "family
18 or household member" means spouses, domestic partners, former
19 spouses, former domestic partners, persons who have a child in common
20 regardless of whether they have been married or have lived together
1 at any time, adult persons related by blood or marriage, adult
2 persons who are presently residing together or who have resided
3 together in the past year, persons sixteen years of age or older who
4 are presently residing together or who have resided together in the
5 past year and who have or have had a dating relationship, persons
6 sixteen years of age or older with whom a person sixteen years of age
7 or older has or has had a dating relationship, and persons who have a
8 biological or legal parent-child relationship, including stepparents
9 and stepchildren and grandparents and grandchildren.

Pretty wide definition of "family or household member". Second, the part where any of those listed above, + law enforcement officers, get the opportunity to screw you over without you ever appearing before the judge (and that's due process?) (page 2):

10 NEW SECTION. Sec. 3. (1) A family or household member of a
11 person or a law enforcement officer may file a petition requesting
12 that the court issue an emergency extreme risk protection order on an
13 ex parte basis, pending a full hearing, enjoining the subject of the
14 petition from having in his or her custody or control, purchasing,
15 possessing, or receiving, or attempting to purchase or receive, a
16 firearm or dangerous weapon.

Here's where the judge gets 1 day maximum to "examine the evidence" (pages 2-3):

37 (4) An emergency extreme risk protection order must be issued or
38 denied on the same day the petition is submitted to the court, unless
39 the petition is filed too late in the day to permit effective review,
1 in which case the order must be issued or denied on the next day of
2 judicial business in sufficient time for the order to be filed that
3 day with the clerk of the court. The court may hold the emergency
4 hearing in person or by telephone.

This is where your purchase of a firearm or ammo in the last six months can be used as evidence against you (page 4):

5 (4) In determining whether grounds for an emergency extreme risk
6 protection order exist, the court may consider any other evidence of
7 an increased risk for violence including, but not limited to,
8 evidence of any of the following:
17 (e) Evidence of recent acquisition of firearms, ammunition, or
18 other dangerous weapons.
19 (5) For purposes of this section, "recent" means within the six
20 months prior to the date the petition was filed.

This is where you only get two weeks maximum to find a lawyer and defend yourself against a 1 year extension of the order (page 4):

28 (7) Within fourteen days after the date of issuance of the order,
29 before the court that issued the order or another court in the same
30 jurisdiction, the court shall hold a hearing pursuant to section 6 of
31 this act to determine if an extreme risk protection order should be
32 issued under this chapter.

If you get an order issued against you, you get one AND ONLY ONE chance at a request to have the order terminated per year (page 8):

26 NEW SECTION. Sec. 8. (1) A person subject to an extreme risk
27 protection order may submit one written request per year at any time
28 during the effective period of the order for a hearing to terminate
29 the order.

This bill is designed to give a single judge the power to remove your right to keep and bear arms for 1 year at a time while placing the subject of the order at an extreme disadvantage at being able to defend themselves against the order.

all I can say to this post is everybody should read the bill for themselves and see exactly what it says and how it protects our gun rights and helps the mentally ill people get the help that they need and I believe the majority of gun owners want that because that is in the best interest of the majority of gun owners
 

OC Freedom

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
646
Location
ADA County, ID
all I can say to this post is everybody should read the bill for themselves and see exactly what it says and how it protects our gun rights and helps the mentally ill people get the help that they need and I believe the majority of gun owners want that because that is in the best interest of the majority of gun owners

Please don't speak for me. This has nothing to do with the mentally ill, this has to do with gun control, but it is a win for criminals, they love any type of gun control the state passes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngsKzdKNAmo
 

jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2015-16/Pdf/Bills/House Bills/1857-S.pdf

First, here's the list of who can request the order (pages 1 and 2):

17 NEW SECTION. Sec. 2. For the purposes of this chapter "family
18 or household member" means spouses, domestic partners, former
19 spouses, former domestic partners, persons who have a child in common
20 regardless of whether they have been married or have lived together
1 at any time, adult persons related by blood or marriage, adult
2 persons who are presently residing together or who have resided
3 together in the past year, persons sixteen years of age or older who
4 are presently residing together or who have resided together in the
5 past year and who have or have had a dating relationship, persons
6 sixteen years of age or older with whom a person sixteen years of age
7 or older has or has had a dating relationship, and persons who have a
8 biological or legal parent-child relationship, including stepparents
9 and stepchildren and grandparents and grandchildren.

Pretty wide definition of "family or household member". Second, the part where any of those listed above, + law enforcement officers, get the opportunity to screw you over without you ever appearing before the judge (and that's due process?) (page 2):

10 NEW SECTION. Sec. 3. (1) A family or household member of a
11 person or a law enforcement officer may file a petition requesting
12 that the court issue an emergency extreme risk protection order on an
13 ex parte basis, pending a full hearing, enjoining the subject of the
14 petition from having in his or her custody or control, purchasing,
15 possessing, or receiving, or attempting to purchase or receive, a
16 firearm or dangerous weapon.

Here's where the judge gets 1 day maximum to "examine the evidence" (pages 2-3):

37 (4) An emergency extreme risk protection order must be issued or
38 denied on the same day the petition is submitted to the court, unless
39 the petition is filed too late in the day to permit effective review,
1 in which case the order must be issued or denied on the next day of
2 judicial business in sufficient time for the order to be filed that
3 day with the clerk of the court. The court may hold the emergency
4 hearing in person or by telephone.

This is where your purchase of a firearm or ammo in the last six months can be used as evidence against you (page 4):

5 (4) In determining whether grounds for an emergency extreme risk
6 protection order exist, the court may consider any other evidence of
7 an increased risk for violence including, but not limited to,
8 evidence of any of the following:
17 (e) Evidence of recent acquisition of firearms, ammunition, or
18 other dangerous weapons.
19 (5) For purposes of this section, "recent" means within the six
20 months prior to the date the petition was filed.

This is where you only get two weeks maximum to find a lawyer and defend yourself against a 1 year extension of the order (page 4):

28 (7) Within fourteen days after the date of issuance of the order,
29 before the court that issued the order or another court in the same
30 jurisdiction, the court shall hold a hearing pursuant to section 6 of
31 this act to determine if an extreme risk protection order should be
32 issued under this chapter.

If you get an order issued against you, you get one AND ONLY ONE chance at a request to have the order terminated per year (page 8):

26 NEW SECTION. Sec. 8. (1) A person subject to an extreme risk
27 protection order may submit one written request per year at any time
28 during the effective period of the order for a hearing to terminate
29 the order.

This bill is designed to give a single judge the power to remove your right to keep and bear arms for 1 year at a time while placing the subject of the order at an extreme disadvantage at being able to defend themselves against the order.

look at the lines of text that he left out of his postI wonder why he did that.

maybe they weren't conducive to the point that he was trying to make.
 

jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
So tell us how using already scarce law enforcement resources to do background checks on people who are going to volunteer to comply with the law is going to prevent murders? Instead of law enforcement officers spending time solving the murders they are going to sit behind a desk and do background checks on people who are voluntarily complying with the law - how is that good?

jsanchez, you would be much better received at the Brady Campaign and MDA forums then here. It's obvious you and the members here have very little in common.

I work against the above-mentioned groups and I do that with good ideas,
good ideas that come from a healthy open minded discussion on the topic I hope you're not afraid of that.

if you don't think background checks in the state are working maybe you should go do a little research on the subject. I personally think that they're keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. and I think the facts bear that out.
 

rapgood

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
598
Location
Stanwood, WA
This bill is designed to give a single judge the power to remove your right to keep and bear arms for 1 year at a time while placing the subject of the order at an extreme disadvantage at being able to defend themselves against the order.
Moreover, once a PI has issued, it is a trivial process to get it renewed for another year... and another... and another... and another... and another...

jsanchez, methinks you have been led down the crooked path to happy-warm-and-fuzzy land; a dangerous path, indeed.
 

jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
Moreover, once a PI has issued, it is a trivial process to get it renewed for another year... and another... and another... and another... and another...

jsanchez, methinks you have been led down the crooked path to happy-warm-and-fuzzy land; a dangerous path, indeed.


can you quote an example of a similar law that had a renewal process that made it a trivial process to renew it.

this law hasn't even passed yet so we don't know what's going to happen

what are some protections that can be built into this law that can set up a framework of hoops that a person has to jump through to get there gun rights back ie psychological evaluation ie anger management class

there are measures that can be built into the legislation to keep the renewal process from being the way you have given example

I also understand that some of you have a jections based on the I bought a gun and ammo so I shouldn't be included in that group and I agree with that but if you make threats have broken a restraining order have alcohol and drug addiction issues and you've made serious threats broken restraining orders in the past and now you're going out and buying an assault weapon and a large quantity of ammunition then maybe a judge should look at it and safe is this going to turn into a domestic violence situation that we see over and over again where the husband gets mad with the divorce and then killed his whole family I'm sure there's some guidelines it can be come up with to keep these family murder suicide from happening and maybe with the right adjustments this law could do that.
 

jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
+1000 I think jsanchez has made it pretty darn clear which side of the gun rights debate he is on - not ours.

I am pro gun I am just not your type of pro gun. I see the political reality of the things that are happening in this state and I'm trying to mitigate their leverageif you can't see that then you'll have a rude awakening when your gun rights get taken away because you couldn't come up with good ideas to stop themjust like you lost the background check battle.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I am pro gun I am just not your type of pro gun. I see the political reality of the things that are happening in this state and I'm trying to mitigate their leverageif you can't see that then you'll have a rude awakening when your gun rights get taken away because you couldn't come up with good ideas to stop themjust like you lost the background check battle.

Which means you are a compromiser which is a loss to rights.
 

rapgood

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
598
Location
Stanwood, WA
can you quote an example of a similar law that had a renewal process that made it a trivial process to renew it.
Domestic no contact orders, civil no contact/trespass orders, permanent injunctions against certain conduct in public, to name a few.
 

SovereigntyOrDeath

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
411
Location
Coeur D Alene, Idaho
I don't consider the background check law an outrageous law just some of the wording that was included in it as far as letting my friend shoot my guns

there are a hundred murders a year in Washington State this law might stop some of them from happening and if it doesn't restrict law abiding citizens gun rights I don't see where it hurts anything and I do see where it helps things.

change is going to come. all you can do is participate in the process and protect your rights.

we are all law abiding citizens here, this law will help people that are going through mental issues of self control and anger management control themselves for a period of 48 hours or 14 days or 1 year and give them time to make the mental transition from whatever hardship they're going through ie post traumatic stress ie divorce.it keeps the rest of us safe and keeps our gun rights safe by these mentally handicapped people being helped through their struggle.

"Those that are willing to give up a little temporary safety for essential liberty are not going to get much of either safety or liberty."
Ben Franklin

Law abiding citizens do not need more regulation fools with their regulation rules.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
I read all the new sections and no cop can be held to account for screwing a citizen over? A dating relationship? Step-parents? That legislation is fraught with all sorts of abuse possibilities.
RCW 9A.72.040: False swearing.


(1) A person is guilty of false swearing if he or she makes a false statement, which he or she knows to be false, under an oath required or authorized by law.

(2) False swearing is a gross misdemeanor.
This is the only penalty? There is no such thing as good faith where LE is concerned. All any cop needs to do is claim he had "good faith" and he walks away unharmed by his unlawful acts.

Also, the penalty for lying will come long after the wrongs have been committed. The database will be purged of any record of the order if the order against him is rescinded? Yeah, right. :rolleyes: Purging databases is something the state just does not do unless they are sued.

This legislation is not a solution in search of a problem, it is a gun grab scheme plain and simple. Just cuz cops are terrible at "enforcing" current orders of protection does not mean that a new way to get one is needed.

Abuse infests this legislation. The enforcers of the "law" are not held to account and once your guns are gone good luck getting them back. If I were inflicted with this crime I would seriously consider not retrieving those "crime guns." Does any reasonable citizen really trust the state to not have placed a tracking device on them? ;) What if it is a lying cop? Wife beater cops in many jurisdictions are given a gun while on the job? If it is a lying cop who really believe that lying cop will be held to account? Gross misdemeanor? That won't get a cop fired...will it?

Anyway, even if the law works as written and the petitioner does get punished for lying the damage is done and the petitioner likely has little to take to make the wronged citizen whole. exigent circumstances comes to mind...make it up and prove it later. If you're wrong, no big deal.

This is evil legislation, pure liberal evil. The good citizens of WA, those who love liberty, must fight this legislation tooth and nail.
 

Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
There was a switch pulled and instead of the tech committee it is now being heard by the appropriations committee. Here is all their contact info. Hit them up guys!

I hit everyone but a few who wouldn't answer, and I left those ones messages.

2 offices got nasty with me because I didn't live in their districts and they denied that committee members have a responsibility to the whole state because not every district is represented on every committee and sitting on a committee is a special position that is more than being a legislator. Can you guess which 2 offices got stupid about this. Jenkins and Kagi, the two witches who have been pushing this bill all along!


START CALLING! Hearing is TOMORROW!
House Appropriations Committee:

Representative Ross Hunter (D-48), Chair
Phone: (360) 786-7936

Representative Timm Ormsby (D-3), Vice Chair
Phone: (360) 786-7946

Representative Bruce Chandler (R-15), Ranking Minority Member
Phone: (360) 786-7960

Representative Kevin Parker (R-6), Asst. Ranking Minority Member
Phone: (360) 786-7922

Representative J.T. Wilcox (R-2), Asst. Ranking Minority Member
Phone: (360) 786-7912

Representative Vincent Buys (R-42)
Phone: (360) 786-7854

Representative Reuven Carlyle (D-36)
Phone: (360) 786-7814

Representative Eileen Cody (D-34)
Phone: (360) 786-7978

Representative Cary Condotta (R-12)
Phone: (360) 786-7954

Representative Tom Dent (R-13)
Phone: (360) 786-7932

Representative Hans Dunshee (D-44)
Phone: (360) 786-7804

Representative Susan Fagan (R-9)
Phone: (360) 786-7942

Representative Larry Haler (R-8)
Phone: (360) 786-7986

Representative Drew Hansen (D-23)
Phone: (360) 786-7842

Representative Zack Hudgins (D-11)
Phone: (360) 786-7956

Representative Sam Hunt (D-22)
Phone: (360) 786-7992

Representative Graham Hunt (R-2)
Phone: (360) 786-7824

Representative Laurie Jinkins (D-27)
Phone: (360) 786-7930

Representative Ruth Kagi (D-32)
Phone: (360) 786-7910

Representative Kristine Lytton (D-40)
Phone: (360) 786-7800

Representative Drew MacEwen (R-35)
Phone: (360) 786-7902

Representative Chad Magendanz (R-5)
Phone: (360) 786-7876

Representative Eric Pettigrew (D-37)
Phone: (360) 786-7838

Representative David Sawyer (D-29)
Phone: (360) 786-7906

Representative Joe Schmick (R-9)
Phone: (360) 786-7844

Representative Tana Senn (D-41)
Phone: (360) 786-7894

Representative Larry Springer (D-45)
Phone: (360) 786-7822

Representative Drew Stokesbary (R-31)
Phone: (360) 786-7846

Representative Pat Sullivan (D-47)
Phone: (360) 786-7858

Representative David Taylor (R-15)
Phone: (360) 786-7874

Representative Steve Tharinger (D-24)
Phone: (360) 786-7904

Representative Luanne Van Werven (R-42)
Phone: (360) 786-7980

Representative Brady Walkinshaw (D-43)
Phone: (360) 786-7826
 
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