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Thread: Blank ammunition for a *REAL* gun.

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    Blank ammunition for a *REAL* gun.

    For training purposes I'd like to use some blank ammunition. But I've found that all of the blank ammo out seems to be just for "guns" that only shoot blanks, i.e. it's not the right size for a real gun. I don't want to have to buy a blank firing gun but would rather just use the real firearms I have.

    Is there any blank ammo available that will work in real guns? Preferably 9mm and 12 gauge?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I wonder how those headspace with a roll crimp...

    What type of training, if one on one training I would highly advise against the use of blanks. That is how Branden Lee died.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 02-16-2015 at 05:40 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I wonder how those headspace with a roll crimp...

    What type of training, if one on one training I would highly advise against the use of blanks. That is how Branden Lee died.
    Woops! Missed the reference to "training."

    We used primer fired soap projectiles - still need head/face and body protection - that darn stuff hurts!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That ammo is 9mmPAK which is 9X22mm as compared to 9X19mm for regular Parabellum/Luger ammo. Can the 9mmPAK be safely fired in a standard semi-auto pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    if one on one training
    It isn't.
    Last edited by pkbites; 02-16-2015 at 06:41 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    In the long run airsoft is a good choice for force on force training. Just need eye and face protection. No loud boom, but that IMO enhances the training because instructions can clearly be heard.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    In the long run airsoft is a good choice for force on force training. Just need eye and face protection. No loud boom, but that IMO enhances the training because instructions can clearly be heard.
    That's not what I'm doing. I have AirSoft equipment and it's not appropriate for what I am doing. I need the "boom".

    I do not believe the 9mmPAK ammo Grapeshot linked to will work in an actual firearm.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    That's not what I'm doing. I have AirSoft equipment and it's not appropriate for what I am doing. I need the "boom".

    I do not believe the 9mmPAK ammo Grapeshot linked to will work in an actual firearm.
    I got that, I was replying to GS's link on training.

    Would it be too much to ask what is the training you plan on?
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Look under 'gun dog training' for blanks and 'poppers'. That will cover the 12 GA.
    For the 9mm, no blank will function a semi-auto. I would suggest a Lee decapper and base, less than $10. Decap your empties, press in a new primer, and you are good to go. No bullet.
    A Lee loader would be even better suited,http://leeprecision.com/lee-loader-9mm-luger.html

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    Regular Member Wolfgang1952's Avatar
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    What kind of weapons are you using? If you are using AR15 type weapons they make 5.56mm blanks, but a BFD must be used for it to cycle. The military use them to train with. The M14, FAL and other military type weapons also use blanks wit BFDs. M60 machine guns used a special BFD for it to cycle with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang1952 View Post
    What kind of weapons are you using?
    I want blank handgun ammunition. Specifically 9mm but .40 & .45 will do also. Per my OP there is a ton of blank pistol ammo out there, but it's for prop guns. I don't believe it will work in a real weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang1952 View Post
    What kind of weapons are you using? If you are using AR15 type weapons they make 5.56mm blanks, but a BFD must be used for it to cycle. The military use them to train with. The M14, FAL and other military type weapons also use blanks wit BFDs. M60 machine guns used a special BFD for it to cycle with.

    Wolf
    The OP clearly states "Is there any blank ammo available that will work in real guns? Preferably 9mm and 12 gauge?"
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    For training purposes I'd like to use some blank ammunition. But I've found that all of the blank ammo out seems to be just for "guns" that only shoot blanks, i.e. it's not the right size for a real gun. I don't want to have to buy a blank firing gun but would rather just use the real firearms I have.

    Is there any blank ammo available that will work in real guns? Preferably 9mm and 12 gauge?
    Are you training an animal, like a horse? It might help to know what the training is for more solutions.
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    Safety isn't a huge concern, IMO (as least as far as discharging the blank goes). A blank doesn't have a bore-sized lead plug containing the pressure, and as we all know a cartridge will expend most of its energy to the atmosphere if the pressure isn't contained and directed to accelerate something (e.g. bursting rounds outside a chamber are relatively harmless).

    The issue is that extra 3mm. 9mm headspaces on the cartridge mouth, so even with a roll crimp (which, btw, wouldn't matter since headspacing primarily affects the leade, which is meaningless without a projectile) the case is going to be too long to allow the breech to go fully into battery.

    To get what you want, you'll need to buy some blank dies for your reloading press. And for god's sake don't pull a Brandon Lee.

    Also, a "standard semi-auto pistol" won't cycle blanks, of course. The standard approach is to install a bore restrictor, so as to somewhat increase the backpressure, and lighten the springs. Most pistols (especially 1911s) often need further work, such as a throwaway barrel with the locking lugs filed off.

    ETA: These guys sell blanks in standard cartridge sizes:

    http://www.atlanticwallblanks.com/
    Last edited by marshaul; 02-17-2015 at 05:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hovercat View Post
    Look under 'gun dog training' for blanks and 'poppers'. That will cover the 12 GA.
    For the 9mm, no blank will function a semi-auto. I would suggest a Lee decapper and base, less than $10. Decap your empties, press in a new primer, and you are good to go. No bullet.
    A Lee loader would be even better suited,http://leeprecision.com/lee-loader-9mm-luger.html
    I was an extra/weapons master for a movie years ago. The Chief weapons master used real weapons that had been modified. The first part of the barrel was threaded internally and what looked like a washer was screwed in. the hole allowed enough back pressure to cycle the weapon. Flames came out the barrel, just like on TV.



    Movie was "Stone Cold" brian bosworth biker movie
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