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Thread: Open carry vs. announced carry

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    Open carry vs. announced carry

    In some states, one can carry guns concealed, but not [openly carried] in the open. What if one carries concealed, and wears a T-shirt that says "I'm legally carrying a concealed handgun"? What if one wears a symbol that comes to convey that information?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...nounced-carry/
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    The primary two reasons for open carry involve deterrence and ease of access.

    Deterrence is based on a bad guy being able to see that you're carrying. That's acceptable only if you're able to respond without delay. Despite the blitheringly idiotic claim of some morons that they can draw and fire from beneath layers of clothing as rapidly as others can from an unfettered firearm, everyone with half a brain has experienced the contrary, that CC induces at least some additional delay.

    Thus, the question becomes, "would I still advertise, knowing that I was operating from a limitation which the bad guy might not have?"

    My answer is, "Absolutely not."
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    Turns out it's an old topic! January of 2014. H/T Eugene Volokh

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    In some states, one can carry guns concealed, but not [openly carried] in the open. What if one carries concealed, and wears a T-shirt that says "I'm legally carrying a concealed handgun"? What if one wears a symbol that comes to convey that information?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...nounced-carry/
    You mean like certain brand firearm owners(fanbois) who wear a gun brand hat, shirt, and dress like they are hiding a gun? Or even the NRA clothing? Or GASP a CCW badge?
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    I believe announced carry has a place in activism.

    It can also serve as a deterrent, I think, especially if the "announcement" is gear associated with carrying a firearm and not just a t-shirt or something. I'm talking about spare mags, specifically. A lot of guys here in Texas have already started "OCing" their spare mags even though they can't open carry their pistols, yet. This can serve as a deterrent as well as serve the activism purpose.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 02-20-2015 at 02:12 PM.
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    I (gasp) agree with Walking Wolf.

    Concealed means concealed. Why would I want to "advertise" that I was carrying a *concealed* firearm? Even coming from a free state such as the Commonwealth of Virginia where I am free to openly carry, if I am carrying concealed there 's a reason WHY I'm concealing and "announcing" that would be defeating the purpose of concealing.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    One time I engaged in "Announced Carry".

    The local library promulgated a policy that in esence said that concealed carry "in conformance with state law" was allowed.

    I put a sign on the back of my wheelchair stating that I was carrying concealed "in conformance with state law" and rolled around the library for about an hour. Out of the 30-45 folks who showed up to laugh at and mock the policy I was the only one that you could be sure was carrying concealed. Sadly, the library staff did not rise to the bait cast before them.

    Afterwards the pretty TV reporterette asked if she could see my gun. She was disappointed when I told her "No".

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I (gasp) agree with Walking Wolf.

    Concealed means concealed. Why would I want to "advertise" that I was carrying a *concealed* firearm? Even coming from a free state such as the Commonwealth of Virginia where I am free to openly carry, if I am carrying concealed there 's a reason WHY I'm concealing and "announcing" that would be defeating the purpose of concealing.
    To be fair, there is rarely any tactical reason why I am concealing. If my firearm is not clearly visible, it is usually for no other reason than it was simply more convenient or comfortable for me not to have the gun out in the open. Sometimes that is to keep a gun from damage while I engage in some activity like working on a car or in the yard, riding a motorcycle, or skiing. Most often that reason is the presence of a jacket in cold weather that might cover enough of my OWB retention holster to make the gun "concealed" for purposes of State law, even if its presence can be readily discerned by anyone who cares to notice such things as the barrel poking out under the bottom of my jacket or the obvious bulge under the jacket. Of course, my experience is that even when completely OCing, most people never exhibit any evidence of having seen my firearm.

    That said, I do weigh the benefits of deterrence against the risks of inviting property theft or other problems. So no hunting or gun related bumper stickers on my car or home. While I'm not opposed to wearing gun related clothing, I'm generally too tight to pay to advertise someone else's product so the only clothing with logos I own tends to be given to me by my employer, vendor, etc.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I OC all day, every day. I will wear an "Armed Citizen T-shirt or sweatshirt when I am manning an OC table or booth at an event. I will wear one, on occasion, at a picnic. I wore one while being interviewed by KIRO 7. But I do not need to "announce" anything as my pistol is there for anyone to see.

    As for going concealed.......sorry, I don't want to look like sheep.

    Attachment 12391
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 02-21-2015 at 12:39 PM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I OC all day, every day. I will wear an "Armed Citizen T-shirt or sweatshirt when I am manning an OC table or booth at an event. I will wear one, on occasion, at a picnic. I wore one while being interviewed by KIRO 7. But I do not need to "announce" anything as my pistol is there for anyone to see.

    As for going concealed.......sorry, I don't want to look like sheep.

    Attachment 12391
    +1 I thought of you and your Armed Citizen wear when I read the thread title.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    But I'll lose my tactical element of surprise!
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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    But I'll lose my tactical element of surprise!
    And you'll draw slower from OC!

    In all seriousness, I agree with stealthyeliminator that "Announced Carry" may have a place in activism, namely those localities where the benign tyrants have made it illegal to OC, and the Lawfully Armed Citizen can't/won't deal with the inconveniences of either Long Gun Open Carry (as in Texas).

    Just a thought: maybe the same approach could be taken with universities and the like where one must "agree" to the student code of conduct's provision of being rendered defenseless while on campus? Wearing of a shirt with the image of an "OCed" sidearm, or with wording that makes it clear the wearer of the shirt has some other lawful (if largely ineffective) means of self-defense?
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    And you'll draw slower from OC!
    --snipped--
    There is at least one time that CC is faster then a presentation from a holstered OC handgun.

    Bug in coat pocket is CC, hand on gun, pointed straight at target, not brandishing, will cost you a coat and potentially save your life. I prefer non-dominate side carry for this.

    Have seen other variations - gun in paper bag, hand in bag on gun. Don't like that as much though as I think it might push premeditation, but can see it working.

    Then there is the newspaper draped over the hand with pistol, held close to your body by support hand. Hand warmer muffs can be utilized in a variety of ways with similar positive benefits.

    Yes, I realize that the original conversation was about drawing from a holster CC v. OC - I'm just tweaking the exceptions some
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-24-2015 at 08:23 AM. Reason: added
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is at least one time that CC is faster then a presentation from a holstered OC handgun.

    Bug in coat pocket is CC, hand on gun, pointed straight at target, not brandishing, will cost you a coat and potentially save your life. I prefer non-dominate side carry for this.
    +1

    From an article on Preventing Stranger Rape a few years back:

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    Now, the anti-gun lobbies will object. A gun doesn’t really help, they will say, and have said. You can’t get to it fast enough. Rape happens unexpectedly. By the time you recognize the danger, it will be too late.

    Not really, most of the time. You know when you are going into a deserted parking garage, or getting into an elevator late at night. The small concealed-carry weapons fit into a purse or coat pocket. They have covered hammers that won’t snag on clothing. You can have it in your hand – you don’t have to take out of your pocket, as it will fire through a coat easily enough. Nobody will know you have it, unless you need it.

    You do have to be willing to use it. A lot of women are willing
    Charles
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is at least one time that CC is faster then a presentation from a holstered OC handgun.

    Bug in coat pocket is CC, hand on gun, pointed straight at target, not brandishing, will cost you a coat and potentially save your life. I prefer non-dominate side carry for this.

    Have seen other variations - gun in paper bag, hand in bag on gun. Don't like that as much though as I think it might push premeditation, but can see it working.

    Then there is the newspaper draped over the hand with pistol, held close to your body by support hand. Hand warmer muffs can be utilized in a variety of ways with similar positive benefits.

    Yes, I realize that the original conversation was about drawing from a holster CC v. OC - I'm just tweaking the exceptions some
    Wait, you'd stop wearing or throw away a coat just cause there's a bullet hole through the pocket? Am I the only one thinking I'd keep the coat? I guess if it was a suit coat it wouldn't be very useful with a bullet hole, but any sort of casual coat... What's one bullet-sized hole? lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Wait, you'd stop wearing or throw away a coat just cause there's a bullet hole through the pocket? Am I the only one thinking I'd keep the coat? I guess if it was a suit coat it wouldn't be very useful with a bullet hole, but any sort of casual coat... What's one bullet-sized hole? lol
    Wonder what the odds are if there are a high % of synthetics in the garment that you might have enough flames for a wiener roast.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=le...20fire&f=false
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Wonder what the odds are if there are a high % of synthetics in the garment that you might have enough flames for a wiener roast.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=le...20fire&f=false
    High-percentage synthetics would be self-sealing. Poblem of that hole in your pocket fixed.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    And you'll draw slower from OC!
    SNIP...
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is at least one time that CC is faster then a presentation from a holstered OC handgun.

    Bug in coat pocket is CC, hand on gun, pointed straight at target, not brandishing, will cost you a coat and potentially save your life. I prefer non-dominate side carry for this.

    Have seen other variations - gun in paper bag, hand in bag on gun. Don't like that as much though as I think it might push premeditation, but can see it working.

    Then there is the newspaper draped over the hand with pistol, held close to your body by support hand. Hand warmer muffs can be utilized in a variety of ways with similar positive benefits.

    Yes, I realize that the original conversation was about drawing from a holster CC v. OC - I'm just tweaking the exceptions some
    Oh, you treacherous person, you! Hadn't even considered the possibility.

    As to coats with bullet holes in the pocket area, I'd be willing to take those gently used coats off your hands (may as well use them for training myself).
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Oh, you treacherous person, you! Hadn't even considered the possibility.

    As to coats with bullet holes in the pocket area, I'd be willing to take those gently used coats off your hands (may as well use them for training myself).
    All these years I thought that was a well known plain clothed LEO slight of hand trick.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    All these years I thought that was a well known plain clothed LEO slight of hand trick.
    Guess I'm at a bigger disadvantage than I'd originally thought.
    I was only making reference to your sig line.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 02-27-2015 at 01:27 AM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Guess I'm at a bigger disadvantage than I'd originally thought.
    I was only making reference to your sig line.
    Ah so! Being "old and treacherous" myself, I just consider it good planning......for what hopefully will not occur.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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