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Thread: Alabama Open Carry Shutdown

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    Alabama Open Carry Shutdown

    The popular Alabama Open Carry facebook group has been shut down and the website appears to be also. Please join Alabama Gun Rights Facebook group for discussing Alabama Open/Concealed or any other topic you wish.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Algunrights/

    "This group was created for the purpose of general discussion of gun rights in Alabama, second amendment issues and current events. Not affiliated with any political groups or corporations, however you may freely discuss such groups. The intent is a discussion group that can freely express their first amendment rights while discussing their second amendment rights without fear of ban or reprisal. We dont have a political agenda or image to uphold, there are other groups for that. "
    Last edited by Chris Green; 02-22-2015 at 11:13 PM. Reason: add descrip

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO Chris Green.

    Facebook and other social media are good for chatting and talking, but hardly an effective forum/voice to protect and defend OC particularly and the RKBA generally.

    That is where OCDO and the user/members stand tall - they not only talk the talk (exceptionally well informed group) but they walk the walk. Many activists here who are, have been, and will be there to quick step into the field and contribute to finding responsible solutions.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Welcome to OCDO Chris Green.

    Facebook and other social media are good for chatting and talking, but hardly an effective forum/voice to protect and defend OC particularly and the RKBA generally.

    That is where OCDO and the user/members stand tall - they not only talk the talk (exceptionally well informed group) but they walk the walk. Many activists here who are, have been, and will be there to quick step into the field and contribute to finding responsible solutions.
    ...except that thing about Glocks shooting their owners thing...haven't figured that out yet.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Hmm, Grapeshot. Not sure I agree. The TX groups (that will likely soon have an open carry bill passed) did most of their organization through Facebook. I asked them if they were familiar with OCDO and very few of them were, though one of their main Facebook groups has over 20,000 members.

    I enjoy OCDO and agree that members are highly knowledgeable on the subject matter, but I would not agree that Facebook groups are "hardly an effective forum".
    Open means open...

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Hmm, Grapeshot. Not sure I agree. The TX groups (that will likely soon have an open carry bill passed) did most of their organization through Facebook. I asked them if they were familiar with OCDO and very few of them were, though one of their main Facebook groups has over 20,000 members.

    I enjoy OCDO and agree that members are highly knowledgeable on the subject matter, but I would not agree that Facebook groups are "hardly an effective forum".
    I wholeheartedly agree with Grapeshot that Facebook is an ineffective forum. I have found Facebook to be VERY worthwhile for publicizing events as well as a place where some level of discussion can take place, but for multiple reasons I've found Facebook lacking when one wants a deep and broad conversation like those here on OCDO.

    Want to publicize an event to a bunch of people, where you prefer quantity over quality of contacts? Facebook shines. Want to have a deep and broad discussion? Facebook blows.
    Last edited by BB62; 02-23-2015 at 11:24 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Hmm, Grapeshot. Not sure I agree. The TX groups (that will likely soon have an open carry bill passed) did most of their organization through Facebook. I asked them if they were familiar with OCDO and very few of them were, though one of their main Facebook groups has over 20,000 members.

    I enjoy OCDO and agree that members are highly knowledgeable on the subject matter, but I would not agree that Facebook groups are "hardly an effective forum".
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree with Grapeshot that Facebook is an ineffective forum. I have found Facebook to be VERY worthwhile for publicizing events as well as a place where some level of discussion can take place, but for multiple reasons I've found Facebook lacking when one wants a deep and broad conversation like those here on OCDO.

    Want to publicize an event to a bunch of people, where you prefer quantity over quality of contacts? Facebook shines. Want to have a deep and broad discussion? Facebook blows.
    20,000 members ?? Facebook must have changed a lot since I closed my account some time ago in abject frustration (was hacked). Never knew that "memberships" or registrations in a cohesive group existed there - still don't think that exists.

    IF that many people to were descend on the state capital in mass demanding OC, we wouldn't be talking about this now.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Welcome to OCDO Chris Green.

    Facebook and other social media are good for chatting and talking, but hardly an effective forum/voice to protect and defend OC particularly and the RKBA generally.

    That is where OCDO and the user/members stand tall - they not only talk the talk (exceptionally well informed group) but they walk the walk. Many activists here who are, have been, and will be there to quick step into the field and contribute to finding responsible solutions.
    Not to knock any OCDO members but facebook/social media are far better than forums for organizing people. Everyone has a facebook app on their phone and now you can create events, invite people, see who RSVPed etc. Forums are slowly becoming a thing of the past.

    My motorcycle club does everything through FB. The founders of the club had a forum for years but now it's a ghost town. We created a private group and can have all the convos we want.
    Last edited by Kopis; 02-23-2015 at 02:14 PM.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    20,000 members ?? Facebook must have changed a lot since I closed my account some time ago in abject frustration (was hacked). Never knew that "memberships" or registrations in a cohesive group existed there - still don't think that exists.

    IF that many people to were descend on the state capital in mass demanding OC, we wouldn't be talking about this now.
    See and believe...


    Open means open...

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    See and believe...


    What are we "seeing"? That a closed group (not publicly viewable) claims almost 21K "members? Might be true, I don't know - I cannot confirm or deny. Would like a great deal more accountability and ascertainable veracity. I find it quite difficult to support a group that operates behind closed doors - have to wonder why the restriction.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What are we "seeing"? That a closed group (not publicly viewable) claims almost 21K "members? Might be true, I don't know - I cannot confirm or deny. Would like a great deal more accountability and ascertainable veracity. I find it quite difficult to support a group that operates behind closed doors - have to wonder why the restriction.
    [rolls eyes]

    Oh yeah...forgot...the Open Carry Texas people are not seen favorably by OCDO admins because of their methods...Was trying to figure out why you were so bent on not believing me and then just remembered that...It all makes sense now...
    Open means open...

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    [rolls eyes]

    Oh yeah...forgot...the Open Carry Texas people are not seen favorably by OCDO admins because of their methods...Was trying to figure out why you were so bent on not believing me and then just remembered that...It all makes sense now...
    False conclusion - those that support open carry, including in Texas, are held in high esteem. You should not castigate the Administration of OCDO so casually. It is not OCT's method(s) that is being questioned by me personally but rather wanting to see (shine a light) on the inner workings for myself - others may have a similar interest.

    Note that there is no need to be sarcastic/roll eyes for sincere questions offered through genuine interest. I would like to know more, but I am forced to observe from outside a locked door with no way to personally react positively or negatively to what I cannot see first hand. Sorry that troubles you.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-23-2015 at 09:55 PM. Reason: fixed
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    False conclusion - those that support open carry, including in Texas, are held in high esteem. You should not castigate the Administration of OCDO so casually. It is not OCT's method(s) that is being questioned by me personally but rather wanting to see (shine a light) on the inner workings for myself - others may have a similar interest.

    Note that there is no need to be sarcastic/roll eyes for sincere questions offered through genuine interest. I would like to know more, but I am forced to observe from outside a locked door with no way to personally react positively or negatively to what I cannot see first hand. Sorry that troubles you.
    Get invited or sign up, whichever route you need to take to get a peek behind the curtain.

    Me, I'm not that interested because it is Facebutt after all.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    [rolls eyes]

    Oh yeah...forgot...the Open Carry Texas people are not seen favorably by OCDO admins because of their methods...Was trying to figure out why you were so bent on not believing me and then just remembered that...It all makes sense now...
    Take Grapeshot at his word. You're tilting at windmills when you accuse OCDO and/or their admin(s) of such things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What are we "seeing"? That a closed group (not publicly viewable) claims almost 21K "members? Might be true, I don't know - I cannot confirm or deny. Would like a great deal more accountability and ascertainable veracity. I find it quite difficult to support a group that operates behind closed doors - have to wonder why the restriction.
    They aren't claiming to have almost 21k members. That is the number of different FB accounts that are members of that group. It is tracked and displayed by FB much like when someone "likes" a post. The only way one would be able to fudge the numbers would be to create tons of FB accounts for the sole purpose of joining the group to inflate the numbers. Or hack FB.
    Last edited by Aknazer; 02-28-2015 at 03:31 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    They aren't claiming to have almost 21k members. That is the number of different FB accounts that are members of that group. It is tracked and displayed by FB much like when someone "likes" a post. The only way one would be able to fudge the numbers would be to create tons of FB accounts for the sole purpose of joining the group to inflate the numbers. Or hack FB.
    Saying the "only way" is a lot like saying "never." Neither is expected to hold up under scrutiny.

    Being a classic practitioner of challenging/questioning "facts", especially those based on assumptions, I see many problems with that justification/defense of the numbers meaning what you suggest.

    If one wants to read what is presented by a private FaceBook group, one has to join/become a member. Those would include antis, media, politicians, LEA/LEO, fence sitters, juveniles, and the just curious, etc, etc.

    As a comparison, look at the bottom of the main OCDO forum page. There you will see the number of "registrant/members" as well as the number of "guests" that are on-line at any given time. The guests will always outnumber the members by 300% to 1000% - very significant numbers and quite telling that those outside the forum are reading what is offered.

    Also look at the bottom of the same OCDO page for the Spam-O-Matic numbers: if these bad registrants and not been prevented from joining, our total membership rooster would be doubled! Wow - if numbers alone told the story.

    The difference is that OCDO is open/viewable to all and FaceBook is closed to all unless you join up. We show a breakdown by status, FaceBook does not - all are included in one basket, thereby skewing the numbers in an easily misinterpreted way.

    Do not misunderstand me. I am not saying that the group does not have dedicated, hard working members or that all members are smoke. I am saying that I cannot decide for myself where on that big bell curve is the point that represents the facts of this - the truth in numbers.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-28-2015 at 04:55 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    The page is still active, but if someone has been blocked from said group, it will not be viewable or searchable.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/alabamaoc/
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    The page is still active, but if someone has been blocked from said group, it will not be viewable or searchable.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/alabamaoc/
    I have never been blocked unless it was a preemptive measure as I have never attempted to register.

    Clicking on that link generates this message: "You must log in to continue."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Custodian's Avatar
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    Class, repeat after me.

    Facebook is liberal.

    Facebook is for liberals.

    Facebook's founder is a liberal

    Good boy.
    Last edited by Custodian; 03-09-2015 at 08:18 PM.
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    The group is set to private or secret, which means you have to have a Facebook account to see it, or be a member of the group to see it.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    The group is set to private or secret, which means you have to have a Facebook account to see it, or be a member of the group to see it.
    OK, I understand that.

    But what do I do if I do not want to deal with the intrusiveness of FB and the people that play there? I don't want any friends, and I sure don't want to know what your status was/is. If I register for an event I do not want to be bombarded with information about who else has registered or how many total registrations there are. Maybe FB's "going private" has gotten better since I nuked my account there. but from what I'm told there is no iron-clad guarantee.

    Yes, life is rough without FB, but until I know I can have an account that will not bring that in when I use it, it's remaining on the verboten list.

    stay safe.
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    At this point the domain is invalid and neither the website or the forum are on the internet.

    Nor have they been for a few weeks.
    Last edited by Kirbinator; 08-30-2015 at 01:39 PM.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Green View Post
    The popular Alabama Open Carry facebook group has been shut down and the website appears to be also. Please join Alabama Gun Rights Facebook group for discussing Alabama Open/Concealed or any other topic you wish.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Algunrights/

    "This group was created for the purpose of general discussion of gun rights in Alabama, second amendment issues and current events. Not affiliated with any political groups or corporations, however you may freely discuss such groups. The intent is a discussion group that can freely express their first amendment rights while discussing their second amendment rights without fear of ban or reprisal. We dont have a political agenda or image to uphold, there are other groups for that. "
    If you'd like a place to put Alabama OC news, you're welcome to use my page. Also have a website thats basic but functional. I'm sure I can find a place for y'all.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    OK, I understand that.

    But what do I do if I do not want to deal with the intrusiveness of FB and the people that play there? I don't want any friends, and I sure don't want to know what your status was/is. If I register for an event I do not want to be bombarded with information about who else has registered or how many total registrations there are. Maybe FB's "going private" has gotten better since I nuked my account there. but from what I'm told there is no iron-clad guarantee.

    Yes, life is rough without FB, but until I know I can have an account that will not bring that in when I use it, it's remaining on the verboten list.

    stay safe.
    FB is similar to my company in that there are all sorts of 'FB internal' metrics/info/analytics that can be used to analyze, segment, predict and market for revenue. Under the FB Terms of Use/End User License Agreement, who knows what is done with that data - all is legal for sale as FB sees fit.

    Depending on your trust in the Goodness of Mankind and Wall Street, I can think of all sorts of folks that w/b interested in FB generated Big Data of gun-friendly group members- Democrat party, Soros funded anti-gun activists,, ATF for sure - Correlation of FB gun advocates that a) rsvp to events, b) % show up at events, c) private message stats w other pro-gunners, d) purchase guns/ammo using credit/debit cards, e) credit ratings, f) voting activity and campaign contributions, g) home/family demographics, g) web-browsing history, h) license plate reader/On-Star auto tracking to frequently used locations, j) tax data....

    Using FB definitely digitizes your actions and makes it subject to analysis to anyone with money or a subpoena.


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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Actually the biggest issue I have are Youtube and OCDO believe it or not. Youtube restricts by country and in bypassing that I end up getting the captcha on OCDO because I use proxy servers. Usually rotate between Swiss and Singapore. Either way it can be a pain. Facebook has never deleted a post on my news page and it very well could have. I'm highly controversial and highly dangerous. I actually believe in freedom of speech and the constitution
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    At this point the domain is invalid and neither the website or the forum are on the internet.

    Nor have they been for a few weeks.
    Are you talking about the old AL Open Carry, then AL Gun Rights page? The one where eye85 got kicked off (or told to leave or whatever)?

    Why did it shut down? I used to be over there as well, but stopped going after I moved to TN and the traffic at ALOC/AGR dropped off to almost nothing.

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