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Thread: Florida Judge flips S. Ct. logic, holds concealed carry law allows open carry ban

  1. #26
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    If you think SCOTUS, will ever hear this case much less rule in your favor.... I admire your determination.
    We filed the appeal with the Florida Supreme Court, not SCOTUS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    In Florida, the DCAs are the state courts of last resort. However, the FL Supreme Court has discretionary jurisdiction to review decisions of the DCAs. Technically, the 4th DCA Norman decision could have been appealed directly to the U.S. Supreme Court rather than the Florida Supremes. Appeals from the DCA directly to the U.S. Supreme Court are very rare, but they do happen.
    Probably wouldn't be taken by SCOTUS if they attempted to skip the state supremes. As I see it, if the FL Supremes take the case and make a ruling on the 2A, it'll cause some kind of conflict (which we want).

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    Getting close to 4 months since the appeal was briefed. No action by the FL Supremes...........

  4. #29
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    Still no action by the FL Supremes. I looked at several other cases sitting on their docket and some have been sitting close to a year. This could take a Looong time........
    The FL Supreme Ct. has been on its summer break for the past 6 weeks (except for critical cases). Expect more action coming soon.
    Last edited by StogieC; 08-23-2015 at 10:58 PM.

  5. #30
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    Getting close to 4 months since the appeal was briefed. No action by the FL Supremes...........
    You don't want them to take it. 30% chance you get a "right" to a license. 70% you get something really bad. Knuckle dragging apes/fascists are in charge.
    Last edited by 77zach; 08-23-2015 at 06:21 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  6. #31
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Expect more action coming soon.
    Totes fer serial, I'm holding my breath...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    You don't want them to take it. 30% chance you get a "right" to a license. 70% you get something really bad. Knuckle dragging apes/fascists are in charge.
    Something's gotta push the overall public carry issue to SCOTUS. After the Jackson dissent, it's pretty clear we need a split. While a right to shall-issue isn't great, it's clearly at odds with several circuit opinions that say you have a "right" to carry in public if the issuing authority thinks you "need" it.

  8. #33
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonygreene113 View Post
    I might have read the OP's original article from guns site. However somewhere around the lower end of the article it states something about some clown taking a video of Norman walking around with a tight shirt which basically "printed" him.
    Because his shirt wasn't baggy enough to "conceal" his weapon he was arrested and possibly the tool anti-gun freak gave the video to the police.
    Can one assume you are referring to this Norman?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qKeJ6jd2Ak&app=desktop

    The arrest affidavit states he was wearing a skintight shirt that was tucked into his shorts, but in the video it's fairly obvious that it's covering the handgrip of the revolver and hence can't be 'tucked in'. And as the majority of the holstered firearm is visible beneath the hem of his shirt, it' can't be said that it's 'not visible, but is printing'.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 09-07-2015 at 05:53 PM.

  9. #34
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    Thumbs up Petition Granted by Florida Supreme Court - Norman v. State

    This appears to be the thread with the most recent post regarding the Norman v. State Open Carry case and so I chose it for this update.

    From my website:

    Update by Charles Nichols, President of California Right To Carry – October 6, 2015 – The Florida Supreme Court has decided to hear the case.

    The Court accepts jurisdiction of this case as to the notice to invoke discretionary jurisdiction filed pursuant to Art. V, § 3(b)(3), Florida Constitution (i.e., expressly declares valid a state statute and expressly construes a provision of the state or federal constitution). Petitioner’s initial brief on the merits shall be served on or before October 26, 2015; respondent’s answer brief on the merits shall be served twenty days after service of petitioner’s initial brief on the merits; and petitioner’s reply brief on the merits shall be served twenty days after service of respondent’s answer brief on the merits. The Clerk of the Fourth District Court of Appeal shall file the record which shall be properly indexed and paginated on or before December 7, 2015. The Clerk may provide the record in the format as currently maintained at the district court, either paper or electronic. This case was also submitted to the Court on jurisdictional briefs addressing as an alternative basis for jurisdiction under Art. V, § 3(b)(3), Florida Constitution (i.e., express and direct conflict). The Court has determined that it should decline to accept jurisdiction on that alternative basis, and thus hereby denies the petition for review as to that alternative basis. No motion for rehearing will be entertained by the Court in this regard. See Fla. R. App. P. 9.330(d). As discussed above, the Court accepts jurisdiction and orders briefing only on the basis of Art. V, § 3(b)(3), Florida Constitution (i.e., expressly declares valid a state statute and expressly construes a provision of the state or federal constitution). The Court having accepted jurisdiction, oral argument will be set by separate order. Counsel for the parties will be notified of the oral argument date approximately sixty days prior to oral argument.
    Concealed carry is of no use to me, I don't carry a purse.

    Charles Nichols – President of California Right To Carry
    http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org

  10. #35
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by California Right To Carry View Post
    This appears to be the thread with the most recent post regarding the Norman v. State Open Carry case and so I chose it for this update.

    From my website:

    Update by Charles Nichols, President of California Right To Carry – October 6, 2015 – The Florida Supreme Court has decided to hear the case.

    The Court accepts jurisdiction of this case as to the notice to invoke discretionary jurisdiction filed pursuant to Art. V, § 3(b)(3), Florida Constitution (i.e., expressly declares valid a state statute and expressly construes a provision of the state or federal constitution). Petitioner’s initial brief on the merits shall be served on or before October 26, 2015; respondent’s answer brief on the merits shall be served twenty days after service of petitioner’s initial brief on the merits; and petitioner’s reply brief on the merits shall be served twenty days after service of respondent’s answer brief on the merits. The Clerk of the Fourth District Court of Appeal shall file the record which shall be properly indexed and paginated on or before December 7, 2015. The Clerk may provide the record in the format as currently maintained at the district court, either paper or electronic. This case was also submitted to the Court on jurisdictional briefs addressing as an alternative basis for jurisdiction under Art. V, § 3(b)(3), Florida Constitution (i.e., express and direct conflict). The Court has determined that it should decline to accept jurisdiction on that alternative basis, and thus hereby denies the petition for review as to that alternative basis. No motion for rehearing will be entertained by the Court in this regard. See Fla. R. App. P. 9.330(d). As discussed above, the Court accepts jurisdiction and orders briefing only on the basis of Art. V, § 3(b)(3), Florida Constitution (i.e., expressly declares valid a state statute and expressly construes a provision of the state or federal constitution). The Court having accepted jurisdiction, oral argument will be set by separate order. Counsel for the parties will be notified of the oral argument date approximately sixty days prior to oral argument.

    It will be ugly. Hopefully the strict scrutiny bill passes this session.
    Last edited by 77zach; 10-07-2015 at 02:44 AM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  11. #36
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    http://www.floridacarry.org/litigati...norman-v-state

    We expect Oral Argument some time in the Spring or Summer of 2016

    10/06/2015 FL Supreme Court Order Accepting Jurisdiction The Court accepts jurisdiction of this case as to the notice to invoke discretionary jurisdiction filed pursuant to Art. V, § 3(b)(3), Florida Constitution (i.e., expressly declares valid a state statute and expressly construes a provision of the state or federal constitution). Petitioner's initial brief on the merits shall be served on or before October 26, 2015; respondent's answer brief on the merits shall be served twenty days after service of petitioner's initial brief on the merits; and petitioner's reply brief on the merits shall be served twenty days after service of respondent's answer brief on the merits. The Clerk of the Fourth District Court of Appeal shall file the record which shall be properly indexed and paginated on or before December 7, 2015. The Clerk may provide the record in the format as currently maintained at the district court, either paper or electronic
    Pending Initial Brief on Merits 10/26/2015 PT Dale Lee Norman BY: PT Eric J. Friday 797901
    Pending State's Answer Brief on Merits 11/16/2015 RS State Of Florida BY: RS Consiglia Terenzio 656879
    Pending Reply Brief on Merits 12/07/2015 PT Dale Lee Norman BY: PT Eric J. Friday 797901

  12. #37
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Does this mean we might get another chance to head on over to the 4th DCA and watch what's happening again?

    If so, pencil me in and I'll be there for sure.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Does this mean we might get another chance to head on over to the 4th DCA and watch what's happening again?

    If so, pencil me in and I'll be there for sure.

    AD
    Nope. Tallahassee baby!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    It will be ugly. Hopefully the strict scrutiny bill passes this session.
    Why would it be ugly (or uglier than before)? I don't see where the downside is. You either win (get OC) or at a minimum the case helps push shall-issue to SCOTUS with a split. And you still can simply pass the new law through the legislature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    Why would it be ugly (or uglier than before)? I don't see where the downside is. You either win (get OC) or at a minimum the case helps push shall-issue to SCOTUS with a split. And you still can simply pass the new law through the legislature.





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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post




    OK, so it may not be simple, but the fact remains the law can always be changed through the legislature. It can't be changed through the courts if no one challenges it.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    OK, so it may not be simple, but the fact remains the law can always be changed through the legislature. It can't be changed through the courts if no one challenges it.
    Which is exactly what we are doing. The Norman open carry case going to the Florida Supreme Court and we've got open carry legislation before the legislature this term.

  18. #43
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Nope. Tallahassee baby!
    I'll put myself on permanent "standby" for the run up to Tallahassee in the near future!!

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  19. #44
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    I'll put myself on permanent "standby" for the run up to Tallahassee in the near future!!
    I wonder what Tally's laws are on Knives and Green Rubber...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  20. #45
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    The case has been fully briefed in the Florida Supreme Court and Oral Arguments will be held on June 8th at 9am.

    http://jweb.flcourts.org/pls/docket/...casenumber=650

  21. #46
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    The case has been fully briefed in the Florida Supreme Court and Oral Arguments will be held on June 8th at 9am.

    http://jweb.flcourts.org/pls/docket/...casenumber=650
    The OC ban will certainly be upheld for unlicensed and licensed people because the 2nd amendment is now a 2nd or even 3rd class right. Do you believe they will come right out and say our "right" is the privilege to pay and wait for a license to conceal only or will they dodge? Will you appeal to the SCOTUS?
    Last edited by 77zach; 03-22-2016 at 11:35 AM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  22. #47
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    The OC ban will certainly be upheld for unlicensed and licensed people because the 2nd amendment is now a 2nd or even 3rd class right. Do you believe they will come right out and say our "right" is the privilege to pay and wait for a license to conceal only or will they dodge? Will you appeal to the SCOTUS?
    I'm not getting into what-ifs and litigation strategy. Read the briefs.

  23. #48
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    I'm not getting into what-ifs and litigation strategy. Read the briefs.
    The way the legislature is headed, getting a kourt ordered "right" to a license (an oxymoron) could be a victory when viewed a decade from now. I'm cautiously optimistic they would say this. There is a pretty significant chance they'll say the right to bear arms means the state can ban the right to bear arms. This kourt, like most, is made of high school totalitarians, and their response will likely be condescending and punitive. Fingers crossed.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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