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Thread: SB 17 - Open Carry Permit bill - Off Calendar

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    Question SB 17 - Open Carry Permit bill - Off Calendar

    My understanding of the Texas legislative process is that a legislator must normally place a bill on the "intent calendar" for it to be voted on and must do so every day.

    SB 17 was placed on the intent calendar for 2/23/2015. SB 17 was not placed on the intent calendar for tomorrow. Anyone familiar with the legislative process who can shed some light on whether or not this is normal for a bill that eventually passes?
    Concealed carry is of no use to me, I don't carry a purse.

    Charles Nichols President of California Right To Carry
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    Official answer

    Intent calendar. Senate rules require that bills and resolutions be listed on the regular order
    of business and be considered on second reading in the order in which committee reports
    on the measures are submitted to the senate. During a regular session, the senate adopts a
    further rule specifying that before a bill or joint resolution may be brought up for floor debate
    out of its regular order, notice of intent must be filed with the secretary of the senate by 3
    p.m. on the last preceding calendar day the senate was in session. A senator may give notice
    on no more than three bills or resolutions before April 15 and on no more than five bills or
    resolutions on or after April 15. Senate rules direct the secretary of the senate to prepare a
    list of all legislation for which notice has been given. The list, called the Intent Calendar, must
    be made available to each senator and to the press not later than 6:30 p.m. on the day the
    notice is filed. No bill or resolution may be considered on its first day on the Intent Calendar
    before the 130th calendar day of the regular session, and a vote of two-thirds of the senators
    present is required before any of the measures listed on the Intent Calendar may be debated.
    The senate rules do not require measures to be brought up for consideration in the order listed
    on the Intent Calendar, and the senate routinely considers only a portion of those measures
    listed on the Intent Calendar for a given day. A senator must give notice from day to day for
    a measure that was not brought up for consideration to remain on the Intent Calendar. Any
    provision of the senate rule governing the Intent Calendar may be suspended by a vote of four fifths
    of the members present.

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    So am I understanding correctly that the OP question/point isn't a concern?
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    Regular Member California Right To Carry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    Intent calendar. Senate rules require that bills and resolutions be listed on the regular order
    of business and be...
    And how does copying and pasting from the link I provided answer my original question?
    Concealed carry is of no use to me, I don't carry a purse.

    Charles Nichols President of California Right To Carry
    http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by California Right To Carry View Post
    And how does copying and pasting from the link I provided answer my original question?
    Random line breaks in the middle of sentences. They answer everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jordanmills View Post
    Random line breaks in the middle of sentences. They answer everything.
    I'll try again "Anyone familiar with the legislative process who can shed some light on whether or not this is normal for a bill that eventually passes?"

    We don't have an "intent calendar" in California. Once A bill passes out of committee the bill is either on the floor for some kind of a vote or it is held at the desk. When a bill is held at the desk it is usually an indication that there aren't enough votes to pass the bill at that time or the powers that be have decided that there are more important bills they want to be voted on first.

    Being "held at the desk" isn't normal for a bill that eventually passes in California. Is there anyone here knowledgeable about the Texas legislative process who can answer the question I originally posed?
    Concealed carry is of no use to me, I don't carry a purse.

    Charles Nichols President of California Right To Carry
    http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org

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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    There are a few things to keep in mind here at this stage.

    First things first, if you have watched any of the live feeds from the Texas Senate, you will see that they are in no hurry to do anything. Their first day in session, they met for a half hour before adjourning. Second day, met for a half hour, adjourned till noon, went another half hour, then unanimously agrees on a 5 day weekend. I wish I was joking. Not only have they barely spent time in the chambers, but they've been doing BS stuff like welcoming various groups and recognizing them.

    Another thing we should keep in mind is that while a whole bunch of other bills are just now going to committee after being announced in the Senate chamber, open carry went to committee and soared through before the Senate even convened for the legislative session. I think that alone speaks volumes for the support behind this bill.

    Legislature moves at a snail's pace. A bill requires three readings before it can be voted on and passed through a chamber. Unless I'm mistaken, it has already had a second reading at this point.

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    I still have no clue though about whether or not what the OP asked is or should be a concern. The bill status (http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLoo...=84R&Bill=SB17) shows that it has passed stage 2....however, as OP pointed out, it also lists as the current status:
    "Last Action: 02/24/2015 S Not again placed on intent calendar"

    And I see that another important bill, SB11, has the same status as to stage and not on intent calendar.

    Having said that, I also haven't been able to get a simple answer as to whether or not that is business as usual for bills, or if this indicates a concern. Is this "normal" for bill progress for those bills that do make it through?
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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Alright, so I found a random bill from last session, take a look.

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillL...82R&Bill=SB567

    You'll notice it's got the same line that we are seeing in SB17 and it passed.




    Whether or not its normal, I couldn't tell you, but the bill isn't dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Alright, so I found a random bill from last session, take a look.

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillL...82R&Bill=SB567

    You'll notice it's got the same line that we are seeing in SB17 and it passed.




    Whether or not its normal, I couldn't tell you, but the bill isn't dead.
    Works for me, thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdan01 View Post
    Works for me, thanks!
    +1 Works for me too...drdan01 thanks for your persistence in your line of questioning. I was starting to get a little myself!!!

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    Sb-17

    My understanding is that a bill must be on the intent calendar for two days to be "eligible". It may not be voted upon until the 60th day of the legislative session. Thereafter, a 3/5ths majority (reduced from the prior 2/3rds Senate rule) to be brought to the floor of the Senate. (The Texas Senate consists of 31 Senators, 20 of whom are are Republicans.) You will notice that there are 19 Senators who are either co-authors or sponsors of SBs 11 (campus carry) and 17 (licensed open carry). That should assure these bills of reaching the Senate floor and, presumably, passage. Then it will be off to the house. Both bills are shown in the same status.

    SB 342 (unlicensed carry, either open or concealed, or so called "constitutional carry") has not been set for hearing in committee. Open Carry Texas is working the bill, but it is not a given that the bill will be heard. As you may be aware, there has been unfortunate publicity from a very small group of people not affiliated with Open Carry Texas which have complicated the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Warrior View Post
    As you may be aware, there has been unfortunate publicity from a very small group of people not affiliated with Open Carry Texas which have complicated the situation.
    Yes, we had a handful of those people here in California from CalGuns.nuts and the official NRA state organization (CRPA) as well who wanted to get Unloaded Open Carry banned in California and passed up no opportunity to place Open Carry in a bad light.

    The Black Panthers can be excused for their protest in the State Capitol building back in 1967, passage of the ban on Loaded Open Carry was pretty much assured by then.
    Concealed carry is of no use to me, I don't carry a purse.

    Charles Nichols President of California Right To Carry
    http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org

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    How many Texans are going to get in line TO ASK PERMISSION from the State to OC???


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    Anyone who can understand this, you would have to question their sanity? Makes my head spin. I know nothing about any of this, but something like this seems to make the process way way way x1000 too complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    Intent calendar. Senate rules require that bills and resolutions be listed on the regular order
    of business and be considered on second reading in the order in which committee reports
    on the measures are submitted to the senate. During a regular session, the senate adopts a
    further rule specifying that before a bill or joint resolution may be brought up for floor debate
    out of its regular order, notice of intent must be filed with the secretary of the senate by 3
    p.m. on the last preceding calendar day the senate was in session. A senator may give notice
    on no more than three bills or resolutions before April 15 and on no more than five bills or
    resolutions on or after April 15. Senate rules direct the secretary of the senate to prepare a
    list of all legislation for which notice has been given. The list, called the Intent Calendar, must
    be made available to each senator and to the press not later than 6:30 p.m. on the day the
    notice is filed. No bill or resolution may be considered on its first day on the Intent Calendar
    before the 130th calendar day of the regular session, and a vote of two-thirds of the senators
    present is required before any of the measures listed on the Intent Calendar may be debated.
    The senate rules do not require measures to be brought up for consideration in the order listed
    on the Intent Calendar, and the senate routinely considers only a portion of those measures
    listed on the Intent Calendar for a given day. A senator must give notice from day to day for
    a measure that was not brought up for consideration to remain on the Intent Calendar. Any
    provision of the senate rule governing the Intent Calendar may be suspended by a vote of four fifths
    of the members present.

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    2nd reading happened today

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodo...S520150225.htm

    Third is a charm..... All is looking good! Also, the identical companion HB910, which has an astounding 69 authors and co-authors was referred to the Homeland Security and Public Safety committee in the House!

    As far as understanding the rules! You're not supposed to.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodo...S520150225.htm

    Third is a charm..... All is looking good! Also, the identical companion HB910, which has an astounding 69 authors and co-authors was referred to the Homeland Security and Public Safety committee in the House!

    As far as understanding the rules! You're not supposed to.....
    The number of co-authors and sponsors basically demonstrates members who intend to vote for the bill on the floor which sometimes can help move it through the committee process. An essentially identical bill died in committee without being brought to a vote in the last several sessions (every two years) of the Texas Legislature.

    OpenCarryTexas.org supports initiatives which allow the citizens of Texas to exercise more rights than present law even though our primary focus is on passage of a "Constitutional Carry" bill, that is a bill which provides for unlicensed carry of modern handguns either openly or concealed. The organization is working to obtain a hearing for Senate Bill 342 and its companion bill, House Bill 195.

    At the present time, Texas is one of six remaining states which have no provision for any form of open carry of modern handguns. For those not familiar with the numbers, there are 31 states which allow unlicensed open carry and 13 which allow licensed open carry. There are several states in the process of considering legislation to allow unlicensed carry of modern handguns either openly or concealed.

    Texas has had prohibitions against the carry of modern handguns since the post-civil war reconstruction era. No living Texan has ever experienced the open carry of handguns within the state. The history of these prohibitions indicates that their origin was racially motivated to keep the recent freedmen and other minorities from exercising the right of armed self-defense. In time, laws that were intended to be discriminatorily enforced came to be enforced against everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodo...S520150225.htm

    Third is a charm..... All is looking good! Also, the identical companion HB910, which has an astounding 69 authors and co-authors was referred to the Homeland Security and Public Safety committee in the House!

    As far as understanding the rules! You're not supposed to.....
    Nor apparently the statuses, because it's a coin toss as to whether the Last Status is current, and in this case the calendars page (from the above link) has the link to the status page, which still shows Not again placed on intent calendar and dated 2/24/15.

    Thanks for the calendar links as that seems to be yet another must follow page.
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    How much will the Permission slip cost?

    How much will any required training cost?

    How much will required holster cost?


    Infringement, Infringement, Infringement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    How much will the Permission slip cost?

    How much will any required training cost?

    How much will required holster cost?


    Infringement, Infringement, Infringement
    SB 17 essentially changes the existing concealed handgun license into a handgun license. The fees, training hours and such will not be changed by this bill. No one is required to openly carry under this license. It is an option that the license holder may exercise as the circumstances suggest. Many, if not most, people will continue to carry concealed as they have been doing much of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Warrior View Post
    SB 17 essentially changes the existing concealed handgun license into a handgun license. The fees, training hours and such will not be changed by this bill. No one is required to openly carry under this license. It is an option that the license holder may exercise as the circumstances suggest. Many, if not most, people will continue to carry concealed as they have been doing much of the time.


    Hangun license..........

    Nice.

    Hey Texas, you'll be right up there with New York, DC, Mass., CT., NJ, etc.


    It makes me sick that this can even be looked at as a victory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    Hangun license..........

    Nice.

    Hey Texas, you'll be right up there with New York, DC, Mass., CT., NJ, etc.


    It makes me sick that this can even be looked at as a victory.
    This isn't the end game. Senate Bill 342 and its companion House Bill 195, Vermont model unlicensed carry, either open or concealed ("constitutional carry") is what we wish to have passed. We support SB 17 because we are better off with it than without it. It is just that simple.

    Actually, New York is one of the six states that have no provision for open carry of any form. The six are California, Illinois, New York, South Carolina, Florida and Texas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    Hangun license..........

    Nice.

    Hey Texas, you'll be right up there with New York, DC, Mass., CT., NJ, etc.


    It makes me sick that this can even be looked at as a victory.
    Do you even know anything about current Texas firearm laws or do you just troll all the different state forums?

    This bill would still be an incredible victory for the State considering how long this state has had this ban in place on OC of a pistol. Licensed OC isn't our goal, but if we can't get constitutional carry to get through, it is a major step in the right direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Warrior View Post
    This isn't the end game. Senate Bill 342 and its companion House Bill 195, Vermont model unlicensed carry, either open or concealed ("constitutional carry") is what we wish to have passed. We support SB 17 because we are better off with it than without it. It is just that simple.

    Actually, New York is one of the six states that have no provision for open carry of any form. The six are California, Illinois, New York, South Carolina, Florida and Texas.

    Registration
    IS the endgame and anyone getting a license is registered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Do you even know anything about current Texas firearm laws or do you just troll all the different state forums?

    This bill would still be an incredible victory for the State considering how long this state has had this ban in place on OC of a pistol. Licensed OC isn't our goal, but if we can't get constitutional carry to get through, it is a major step in the right direction.

    Constitution, period! Anything short of Constitutional Carry is simply Unconstitutional COMPROMISE.

    This "law" may entice many more to REGISTER themselves to OC.

    Again this aint no stinking victory, it's simply altering the CC PERMISSION SLIP to allow CCrs to OC as well.


    Somebody dig out one of those Pace salsa commercials. "New York City!?!?!" Texas may as be NYC with this kind of GOVERNMENT INFRINGEMENT.
    Last edited by Jeff. State; 02-26-2015 at 02:26 PM.

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