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Federal agents 'catch and release' open carry activist in Washington

WalkingWolf

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Police officers don't have to be Federal to get away with it....they just have to be police officers.

Federal officers have not only qualified immunity, but sovereign immunity. Making it very very difficult to successfully sue them. I have my doubts in these victims case whether they can find a attorney to take their case. If it was a local or state LEO it would mean a cash payday.
 

Grapeshot

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[h=1]Washington activists plan peaceful armed assembly response to activist’s arrest[/h]Reacting to the “catch and release” of one of its leaders for openly carrying a firearm on federal grounds that ban firearms inside the facility, Washington activists are planning a responsive armed demonstration, the Our State, Our Rights coalition announced today on Facebook. Liberty for All and Defend Amendment X will gather in front of the Tom Foley Federal Building in Spokane next Friday to protest the arrest and detention of Anthony Bosworth by DHS police on Wednesday.

The protest will take place on March 6 between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. PST at the Tom Foley Federal Building, 920 W Riverside Ave Spokane, Washington 99201.
http://www.examiner.com/article/was...activist-s-arrest?CID=examiner_alerts_article
 

Grapeshot

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It's amazing how different forums view the same thing.
You guys are supporting this man and condemning the agents. Meanwhile on one of those other gun forums...
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...le-onto-federal-property.191438/#post-1230801
There are opinions expressed on both sides - not unlike here on some issues.

I like the last one I saw there:
"So don't exercise your Rights 'cause you might lose them.
Is that the message we're trying to spread?
Tell you what. I'm gonna be a nice guy and help you out. Give me all your guns so you don't lose your 2A Rights.
Sound good?"

That parallels this site's motto:
“A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost”
 

Jeff. State

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usa
[h=1]Washington activists plan peaceful armed assembly response to activist’s arrest[/h]Reacting to the “catch and release” of one of its leaders for openly carrying a firearm on federal grounds that ban firearms inside the facility, Washington activists are planning a responsive armed demonstration, the Our State, Our Rights coalition announced today on Facebook. Liberty for All and Defend Amendment X will gather in front of the Tom Foley Federal Building in Spokane next Friday to protest the arrest and detention of Anthony Bosworth by DHS police on Wednesday.

The protest will take place on March 6 between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. PST at the Tom Foley Federal Building, 920 W Riverside Ave Spokane, Washington 99201.
http://www.examiner.com/article/was...activist-s-arrest?CID=examiner_alerts_article

Tom Foley Federal Building. How appropriate..


Foley was Speaker of the house and a main proponent of the 94 Federal Assault Weapons ban. He was also a key figure in getting Term Limits shot down in Washington State around the same time. Now he has a Federal Building named after him.
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
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May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
[h=1]Washington activists plan peaceful armed assembly response to activist’s arrest[/h]Reacting to the “catch and release” of one of its leaders for openly carrying a firearm on federal grounds that ban firearms inside the facility, Washington activists are planning a responsive armed demonstration, the Our State, Our Rights coalition announced today on Facebook. Liberty for All and Defend Amendment X will gather in front of the Tom Foley Federal Building in Spokane next Friday to protest the arrest and detention of Anthony Bosworth by DHS police on Wednesday.

The protest will take place on March 6 between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. PST at the Tom Foley Federal Building, 920 W Riverside Ave Spokane, Washington 99201.
http://www.examiner.com/article/was...activist-s-arrest?CID=examiner_alerts_article

I have never heard of the Washington groups 'Our State, Our Rights coalition' or 'Liberty for all and defend amendment X'. Further I have never heard of this leader Anthony Bosworth before. Must be an eastern WA group.
 

rapgood

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Stanwood, WA
It appears that the U.S. Attorney in Spokane exercised good judgment in declining to charge. The DHS officers were wrong unless the court had issued a previous order prohibiting possession on the property appurtenant to the court house.

18 U.S.C. 930(f) states:
Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building. (My emphasis)

It's not likely that the court had done so. Otherwise, the U.S. Attorney likely would have prosecuted.

In any event, a prohibition of possession on any federal property would mean that we can't hunt on federal lands. That's not what the law says. The DHS LEO was just plain wrong. While possession on the federal property may have been against a court order, it clearly was not against the law.
 
Last edited:

rapgood

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Stanwood, WA
Did the detainment occur on appurtenant property - which means Federal property under control of the Federal government - or did the detainment occur on public property which is adjacent to the building?

What I infer from the recording is that the detainment occurred on federal property appurtenant to the courthouse. I don't know the exact metes and bounds of the property upon which the Foley courthouse sits, but it has been my experience that the property upon which federal courthouses sit (inlcuding appurtenant areas), generally, are owned by the federal government. I suspect that the detainment was actually on federal property. Even so, I don't believe that the arrest was legal and proper. The way I see it, and absent some prior court order from that court that weapons are not allowed on the appurtenant property, the representations by the DHS LEO that Anthony was violating U.S. law were clearly wrong. I suspect that the only violation that Anthony committed was "contempt of cop" (not a law, although it appears that many LEOs believe it should be).
 

rapgood

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The reason I was wondering is because I do not believe a court order prohibiting firearms on appurtenant property would be valid if the property adjacent to the courthouse was public property and not owned by the Federal government.
I agree.
Even if a court order did prohibit firearms on appurtenant property and that is where the detainment occurred, could the subject be found to be in contempt of the court order if there was no prior notice of the court order given to the subject?
If the appurtenant property is federal land, technically, yes. Likely? No. It would probably be treated as a simply trespass-like matter. Give him notice of the court order (unless already posted), and then if he insists on staying, he would likely have to explain his actions to a judge.
 

amlevin

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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Requires a minimum qualifying score of 80% - that I am reasonably sure is on a static firing line.

That's pretty high considering that at least one local agency only requires 65% as a minimum qualifier.

In a recent "real world" shooting incident he officers only scored a collective 41% when shooting a "rock thrower".
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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northern wis
So what should a qualification shoot decide or do.

That's a question each agency needs to answer before deciding on a course of fire.

Is a qualification training or just a skills test.

lets hear your opinions
 

Grapeshot

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That's pretty high considering that at least one local agency only requires 65% as a minimum qualifier.

In a recent "real world" shooting incident he officers only scored a collective 41% when shooting a "rock thrower".
The standard for determining "good hits" is equaly important - some departments score anything in the black, including sleeves, as pluses.

I would like to see shoot houses, moving and shooting, shoot-don't-shoot, etc placed on the training schedule - understand the problem of budget/money limitation though.
 

WalkingWolf

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The standard for determining "good hits" is equaly important - some departments score anything in the black, including sleeves, as pluses.

I would like to see shoot houses, moving and shooting, shoot-don't-shoot, etc placed on the training schedule - understand the problem of budget/money limitation though.

Force on force training can be accomplished with little expense, and complete safety, though many scoff at the equipment that is used for it. The US Army has adopted this training for soldiers before they are deployed to combat zones. It does not replace live fire, but augments it with more realistic combat situations without the dangers and expense.

It is so effective that a Japanese IPSC competitor Tatsuya Sakai with just one month of live fire training was able to walk away with the trophy for the Steel Plate Challenge in 2004. I repeat this guy never fired a firearm until a month before the competition.

Being a effective combatant takes much more than shooting at targets all day, it takes considerable mental training, IMO more important than live fire training. But the physical training done properly could make all the difference between life and death.

I have said it dozens of times, but nobody listens, they prefer the tactikewl to being mocked for using common sense. Paper targets do not mean jack, targets shooting back even in a non lethal training environment has enormous benefits. So much so the Military is catching on.

Airsoft is not just for kids. Want to do close combat quick draw training safely, leave the firearm in the safe, throw away the paper target. Find a opponent that does not mind getting shot with a plastic BB.
 

Grapeshot

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Force on force training can be accomplished with little expense, and complete safety, though many scoff at the equipment that is used for it. The US Army has adopted this training for soldiers before they are deployed to combat zones. It does not replace live fire, but augments it with more realistic combat situations without the dangers and expense.

It is so effective that a Japanese IPSC competitor Tatsuya Sakai with just one month of live fire training was able to walk away with the trophy for the Steel Plate Challenge in 2004. I repeat this guy never fired a firearm until a month before the competition.

Being a effective combatant takes much more than shooting at targets all day, it takes considerable mental training, IMO more important than live fire training. But the physical training done properly could make all the difference between life and death.

I have said it dozens of times, but nobody listens, they prefer the tactikewl to being mocked for using common sense. Paper targets do not mean jack, targets shooting back even in a non lethal training environment has enormous benefits. So much so the Military is catching on.

Airsoft is not just for kids. Want to do close combat quick draw training safely, leave the firearm in the safe, throw away the paper target. Find a opponent that does not mind getting shot with a plastic BB.

I was leaving that for someone like you to say - mission acccomplished! :)
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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The standard for determining "good hits" is equaly important - some departments score anything in the black, including sleeves, as pluses.

I would like to see shoot houses, moving and shooting, shoot-don't-shoot, etc placed on the training schedule - understand the problem of budget/money limitation though.


So again are we training or are we qualifying they are not necessarily the same thing. To qualify for some thing one has to have a standard to meet.

To train one does not necessarily have to meet a standard. A lot of people I found especially management confuses the two.

One does not have to fire live rounds to train for use of force but one would be remised not to fire live rounds to backup that training.

I don't care how many rounds one dry fires or uses air soft or Sims it is not the same as live fire.
 

WalkingWolf

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So again are we training or are we qualifying they are not necessarily the same thing. To qualify for some thing one has to have a standard to meet.

To train one does not necessarily have to meet a standard. A lot of people I found especially management confuses the two.

One does not have to fire live rounds to train for use of force but one would be remised not to fire live rounds to backup that training.

I don't care how many rounds one dry fires or uses air soft or Sims it is not the same as live fire.

Agree, but paper targets are not the same as live targets...
 

Grapeshot

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So again are we training or are we qualifying they are not necessarily the same thing. To qualify for some thing one has to have a standard to meet.

To train one does not necessarily have to meet a standard. A lot of people I found especially management confuses the two.

One does not have to fire live rounds to train for use of force but one would be remised not to fire live rounds to backup that training.

I don't care how many rounds one dry fires or uses air soft or Sims it is not the same as live fire.

Train first - then fire for certification. Can see several tiers of training and different levels of certification as being viable......in theory.
 

WalkingWolf

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And who said they were.


Hunting can be a great source of practice also shooting running bunnies with a handgun is great fun taking big game animals works also.

Well I think if a guy from Japan can come here and only train one month with a firearm, while shooting all year with a airsoft and dominate a prestigious competition proves that one does not need to shoot thousands of rounds to be able to hit a target under stress. I agree that hunting animals is good training, but not everybody can, and big game is expensive for city folk.

22 lr has been one of the greatest training aids to learn trigger control, breathing, sight picture, or point shooting. Those are the basics and can be learned without ever picking up a firearm.

People have been defending themselves in the US for a couple centuries, and until the CC fad most people bought a gun, fired it once, and put it in a drawer. Yet they are able to outshoot the high tech tacti cool crowd of today. I understand that selling expensive firearms training is a good source of income, but it is not the end all to self defense. Proven by the poor accuracy of most police shootings.

To be clear, and honest, people only need the will to live/survive, a firearm, basic firearms knowledge and the fortitude to pull the trigger. It is one reason women are such a joy to teach firearms training, they carry, train, to survive, not to be tacticool, at least most of them.
 
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