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Thread: ATF Wants to Ban Green-Tipped 5.56 Ammo

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    ATF Wants to Ban Green-Tipped 5.56 Ammo

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...cmp=latestnews

    The article is light on information, but the letter from the ATF (which is in the article) is basically trying to reclassify this ammo as AP pistol ammo, and that since AP pistol ammo is illegal so too is green-tipped 5.56 ammo.

    EDIT: Second article below on this that has a bit more substance.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...cmp=latestnews
    Last edited by Aknazer; 02-27-2015 at 04:08 PM.

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    If they can't ban the weapon, they will try to ban the ammo..

    The Obama administration at its finest.... The anti's will love this one. However the 2A will prevail.

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    While I hope it doesn't pass, I have to wonder if it has the potential to work in our favor in the long run if it were to pass. And by that I mean it would end up in court and I wonder if the court case could end up hurting the 1968 GCA that they're trying to use to justify this.

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    The ATF's argument is that it's armor-piercing.

    The truth is that green-tipped is NOT armor-piercing. That belongs to the steel-tipped version.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Stop the BATFE from banning XM855 Ammunition Petition (2/3 of 100K goal already met!)

    The following petition was initiated to compel the administration to articulate their justification for the recent BATFE proposed ban on common rifle ammunition. I am sure forcing a response will be quite embarrassing for the administration as they were originally trying to slip this ban through the back door quietly.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...ition/XrvVh1cj

    Signing the Petition is quick and easy!


    *****************

    Don't forget to also contact your lawmakers as well as the BATFE.

    You may call your members of Congress at 202-224-3121.

    Contact the BATFE:

    - via email at APAComments@atf.gov

    - via fax at (202) 648-9741.

    - via mail:

    ATTN: AP Ammo Comments
    Denise Brown
    Mailstop 6N-602
    Office of Regulatory Affairs
    Enforcement Programs and Services
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
    99 New York Avenue, NE
    Washington, DC 20226

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    A petition cannot compel, particularly to petitions.whitehouse.gov, else impeachment would be an accomplished fact.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    The ATF's argument is that it's armor-piercing.

    The truth is that green-tipped is NOT armor-piercing. That belongs to the steel-tipped version.
    Yes, but the bigger question is, is the law unconstitutional in a manner that courts would agree with? Ignore for a moment many people's view on this forum that any restriction=infringement. Would a court be likely to find that the law is too vague when any gun can be made into a pistol, and thus allow the banning of any such round regardless of if it was actually designed for a pistol or not. For example look at CA where they worked to ban lead ammo (not sure if it passed). Combine that with the AP definition and a "handgun" that shoots rifle rounds and you can practically ban all ammo simply because someone turned a rifle into a legal pistol.

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    What's still available M855/SS109 is 70-80 cents a round. All 223/556 is drying up AGAIN as I type.

    Another Marketing masterpiece by the Idiot in Chief.

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    Thats cool. What are they going to do about the 5,000+ rounds of green tip 5.56 ammo that I may or may not have?


    This is another violation of 2A. How much of this are we going to take?
    Last edited by Tucker6900; 03-01-2015 at 03:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post


    This is another violation of 2A. How much of this are we going to take?

    No more! We elected more Republicans last fall to stop this kind of stuff!

    Oh wait they aren't stopping it or anything else are they?


    Guess we will just keep "taking it".

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    No offense to the OP but anyone who believes that the anal sphincter in the white house who wipes his butt with the US Constitution will really be influenced by a petition is dangerously naive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtnScotsman View Post
    No offense to the OP but anyone who believes that the anal sphincter in the white house who wipes his butt with the US Constitution will really be influenced by a petition is dangerously naive.
    No offense, but petitions like these are highly useful for getting the attention of Congressmen who can block such illegal actions by any one of several means.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    That's baseless opinion and wishful thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    No offense, but petitions like these are highly useful for getting the attention of Congressmen who can block such illegal actions by any one of several means.
    Petitions to secure the borders have been submitted in various forms and many time over, yet Congress has failed to act, the Chief Executive has failed to act, the courts have failed, generally speaking, and the borders remain unsecured.

    Petitions...pfft.

    Start buying in bulk at every opportunity...brass casings only...I am.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    During the previous ammo shortage, I was at the ferry dock and piano tuner neighbor was there taking delivery of a pallet - of 7.62 x 39. He said that he and others of our neighbors were the real cause of the shortage and that the Island was about to sink under the weight of ammo. I live near the highest point and 3 miles from anywhere and often hear it being burned at a great rate.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    During the previous ammo shortage, I was at the ferry dock and piano tuner neighbor was there taking delivery of a pallet - of 7.62 x 39. He said that he and others of our neighbors were the real cause of the shortage and that the Island was about to sink under the weight of ammo. I live near the highest point and 3 miles from anywhere and often hear it being burned at a great rate.

    Sounds like some were having a good time
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    their reasoning is completely flawed. They stated the proposed ban is because the now widely available pistols that can fire this ammo.

    First off, these pistols arent exactly concealable any more/less than a standard CQB and if someone was hell bent on doing something bad, they could just pop a pistol upper on a rifle. NFA laws wouldnt "stop" them.

    Secondly, with the pistol barrels, the loss of velocity is so great, the 855 doesnt do anything different than regular 5.56 ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    their reasoning is completely flawed. They stated the proposed ban is because the now widely available pistols that can fire this ammo.

    First off, these pistols arent exactly concealable any more/less than a standard CQB and if someone was hell bent on doing something bad, they could just pop a pistol upper on a rifle. NFA laws wouldnt "stop" them.

    Secondly, with the pistol barrels, the loss of velocity is so great, the 855 doesnt do anything different than regular 5.56 ammo.
    ...there ya go injecting facts and common sense into something the feds do. I thunk you'd knowed that this is not sucha good ideas.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Some conspiracy instigators are conflating this ban on M855s with a ban on ALL .223/5.56 ammo.

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    The run on 22lrs died down so the ammo manufacturer shills/politicians had to gin up another "ban" to drive sales with the NRAs blessing. And the sheep are falling for it. What is it going to be next, 9mm?

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    The ATF's argument is that it's armor-piercing.

    The truth is that green-tipped is NOT armor-piercing. That belongs to the steel-tipped version.
    Everything is about the definitions. You don't have to change the law to ban anything, you just have to redefine the terms to include the next thing you want banned.

    Leather was among the first things to be considered armor. Arrows were among the first "armor-piercing" projectiles.

    But for last year's purposes, while M855A1 is very different in construction from green-tip M855, I don't know if it meets "armor-piercing" criteria, either. It's just steel, too.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Some conspiracy instigators are conflating this ban on M855s with a ban on ALL .223/5.56 ammo.
    Time to wake up and see the truth my friend.


    House Judiciary Chairman: ATF Attempt to Ban AR-15 Ammo By Executive Order is "Preposterous"
    Katie Pavlich | Mar 03, 2015

    Goodlatte wrote in the letter. "The effects of these restrictive interpretations are untenable. For example, since 1986 ATF has considered the M855 5.56 x 45mm cartridge to be “exempt” under the sporting purposes test (although its core contains a substantial amount of lead, raising questions about its classification as “armor piercing” in the first place). ATF has now rescinded that exemption because repeating handguns that fire the M855 round are commercially available. Yet this round is amongst the most commonly used in the most popular rifle design in America, the AR-15. Millions upon millions of M855 rounds have been sold and used in the U.S., yet ATF has not even alleged – much less offered evidence – that even one such round has ever been fired from a handgun at a police officer. The idea that Congress intended LEOPA to ban one of the preeminent rifle cartridges in use by Americans for legitimate purposes is preposterous."

    "The bottom line: This is a backdoor attempt by the Obama administration to make AR-15 sporting rifles, which the President and gun control zealots in Congress have tried to ban for a decade, inoperable. Guns are no good without ammunition and you can bet the Obama administration is fully aware of that fact."

    emphasis added

    to read more: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepa...o-ban-n1964711
    Last edited by SovereigntyOrDeath; 03-03-2015 at 12:24 PM.
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    Take Action

    ATF is taking public comments through March 16, 2015 about the proposed ban through email at APAComments@atf.gov and by fax at (202) 648-9741. Comments can also be sent through the mail to:

    Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
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    Comments can be sent....only approved comments will be considered.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Comments can be sent....only approved comments will be considered.
    ..................
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

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