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Thread: GOP needs to care about more than gun rights

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    GOP needs to care about more than gun rights

    The Republican Party needs to prove it values rights like freedom of speech and the right to a speedy trial as much as it values gun rights, Rand Paul said Friday. "We do a great job defending the Second Amendment, and everybody knows that," the Kentucky senator and potential presidential candidate said at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC). "But we have to defend the whole Bill of Rights. To defend the Second amendment, you have to defend the Fourth Amendment," he continued. "You need the First Amendment to protect the Second Amendment... The Fifth, the Sixth -- we should have speedy trials in our country."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rand-pau...an-gun-rights/

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    The people who agree should just join us Libertarians and let the GOP die because they have already proven they are not willing to do so.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The people who agree should just join us Libertarians and let the GOP die because they have already proven they are not willing to do so.
    but MAC the GOP have done so much for the country over the last decade... (wheres that table grape gave to the other bloke to hide under)

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    Last edited by Nightmare; 02-28-2015 at 05:42 PM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The Republican Party needs to prove it values rights like freedom of speech and the right to a speedy trial as much as it values gun rights, Rand Paul said Friday. "We do a great job defending the Second Amendment, and everybody knows that," the Kentucky senator and potential presidential candidate said at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC). "But we have to defend the whole Bill of Rights. To defend the Second amendment, you have to defend the Fourth Amendment," he continued. "You need the First Amendment to protect the Second Amendment... The Fifth, the Sixth -- we should have speedy trials in our country."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rand-pau...an-gun-rights/

    The GOP needs to be different from the progressive parties. It is not.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The people who agree should just join us Libertarians and let the GOP die because they have already proven they are not willing to do so.
    +1

    We don't need two socialist parties.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The people who agree should just join us Libertarians and let the GOP die because they have already proven they are not willing to do so.
    While possible, you have to look at it from a larger view. Is it easier to change the GOP or is it easier to form a new group and pull from the group you just left? I don't have the answer, but I can see the value of both methods.

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    Jesse -- the Body -- Ventura

    If you don't subscribe to Jesse Ventura's Off the Grid Youtub channel, you should. There's lots of things he says that you'll disagree with, but lots more that makes sense. In any case, his videos are among the most entertaining political commentaries I've run into.

    He analogizes Republicans and Democrats to "gangs" ReBLOODlicans and DemoCRIPS. He says you ain't an independent if you merely alternate between voting for one of the gangs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig8QMOYK59A

    In Colorado, in non-Presidential years, only about 50% of eligible voters actually vote, which says neither political party offers much appeal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHShgz0fbuM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    While possible, you have to look at it from a larger view. Is it easier to change the GOP or is it easier to form a new group and pull from the group you just left? I don't have the answer, but I can see the value of both methods.
    Changing the GOP is not an option. I saw first hand in my state in 2012 that its entrenched socialist leadership's number 1 priority is to keep liberty minded candidates from being nominated at the presidential level.

    The Libertarian party seems to be a good option for now.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    While possible, you have to look at it from a larger view. Is it easier to change the GOP or is it easier to form a new group and pull from the group you just left? I don't have the answer, but I can see the value of both methods.
    That is a valid question, but one which I will say has already been answered. We have already had sufficient time to prove both the inevitability of the Republican "slightly-less-socialism" and the popularity and growth potential of the already well-established Libertarian Party.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    While possible, you have to look at it from a larger view. Is it easier to change the GOP or is it easier to form a new group and pull from the group you just left? I don't have the answer, but I can see the value of both methods.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    That is a valid question, but one which I will say has already been answered. We have already had sufficient time to prove both the inevitability of the Republican "slightly-less-socialism" and the popularity and growth potential of the already well-established Libertarian Party.
    How much time is that MAC?

    Four years? Eight? Even 12?

    I've watched 30 years of progress on RKBA. I've been actively involved for almost 20.

    Our entire system is deliberately designed to move slowly. Ignoring the Slave Codes and Jim Crow laws designed to keep unpopular racial and religious minorities disarmed, our opponents got serious with gun control in 1938. Then we got the GCA of '68. Gun free school zones. Brady background checks. Outright bans on newly manufactured machine guns. Lifetime bans for DV misdemeanors. Duty to retreat.

    We've got some 70 years of bad laws and in the last 25 or 30 we've made great progress at overcoming some of the most onerous.

    I've cast a lot of votes for Libertarian candidates....when doing so won't likely allow a really bad candidate to get into office over a less bad or even sorta decent candidate.

    The problem is, very few voters agree wit the Libertarians. Most of us want government to do more than the Libertarians want. Maybe it is free public education in the Jeffersonian tradition we hold near and dear, or social security, or roads and fire departments. Maybe the social safety net, or protections for the environment, worker safety, anti-discrimination laws, etc.

    Don't let your self-selection into relatively small groups of like minded folks (either physically or online) skew your perception. 40+% of the nation's adults pay no federal income tax. How many of them want to lose the benefits funded by those who do pay. Among those who are paying taxes, many expect to receive various benefits.

    I think the proper course is not to abandon the GOP (or the Democrats for that matter) for a party that has yet to win a single congressional race. Rather, it is for those who lean Democrat to make RKBA the next civil right the left needs to defend. Those in the GOP need to make RKBA the major issue, even more important to them than any short term benefit of lower taxes or opposing some other left wing offense.

    Or, you could start to talk about an IQ or civics/literacy test for voting. But given the overt racist history of such tests and the pain of simply requiring voters to prove they are who they say they are (never mind actually proving citizenship at time they register to vote), I won't hold my breath.

    Bottom line, RKBA can unite a lot of us. Libertarianism doesn't appeal to nearly as many, for better or worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The Republican Party needs to prove it values rights like freedom of speech and the right to a speedy trial as much as it values gun rights, Rand Paul said Friday. "We do a great job defending the Second Amendment, and everybody knows that," the Kentucky senator and potential presidential candidate said at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC). "But we have to defend the whole Bill of Rights. To defend the Second amendment, you have to defend the Fourth Amendment," he continued. "You need the First Amendment to protect the Second Amendment... The Fifth, the Sixth -- we should have speedy trials in our country."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rand-pau...an-gun-rights/

    The GOP needs to be different from the progressive parties. It is not.
    I reject Rand Paul's premise, many fall victim to this sound bite politics, unfortunately. Liberals, and moderates (), love the 1A, 4A and the 5A just as much as we do. They likely exercise these rights more loudly than we do if you listen to the major news outlets. The only difference between "us" and liberals/moderates is that they do not support the 2A.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I reject Rand Paul's premise, many fall victim to this sound bite politics, unfortunately. Liberals, and moderates (), love the 1A, 4A and the 5A just as much as we do. They likely exercise these rights more loudly than we do if you listen to the major news outlets. The only difference between "us" and liberals/moderates is that they do not support the 2A.
    It seems to me they support those other rights unless you aren't going by the approved 3x5 card of discussion.

    R and D's are the two sides of the same counterfeit coin.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    [ ... ] the already well-established Libertarian Party.
    BS Quick, without looking, who is head of the party, anybody ever heard of him? Nyaah.

    How many state and above elected seats are held by party members? ZERO, same as The Constitution Party.

    What are the membership requirements? Same as any other American political party, pay to play and lip service.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    It seems to me they support those other rights unless you aren't going by the approved 3x5 card of discussion.

    R and D's are the two sides of the same counterfeit coin.
    Rand Paul is a politician and as such his statements must be view in a suspicious light. His veneer of "libertarianism" has begun to peel off as he seeks the highest office in the land, if he is in fact seeking that office.

    Where is his bill to repeal the GCA? The NFA? Where is his bill to repeal the GFSZ Act? Where is his bill to clarify what The Framers meant by "SHALL NOT BE FREAKING INFRINGED!!!" for the SCOTUS?

    Is Rand Paul now being viewed as a vote for the lesser of three, or more, evils?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Rand Paul is a politician and as such his statements must be view in a suspicious light. His veneer of "libertarianism" has begun to peel off as he seeks the highest office in the land, if he is in fact seeking that office.

    Where is his bill to repeal the GCA? The NFA? Where is his bill to repeal the GFSZ Act? Where is his bill to clarify what The Framers meant by "SHALL NOT BE FREAKING INFRINGED!!!" for the SCOTUS?

    Is Rand Paul now being viewed as a vote for the lesser of three, or more, evils?

    I fear he will pull many libertarian leaning folks his way and be like Reagan, end up not being libertarian.

    Its for the reasons you mentioned and many others he won't get my vote. I would vote for his dad even though he was GOP, because he was outspoken and very libertarian leaning.

    I like your last line, there could be quite a bit of truth to it.

    I have a friend though who thinks, Rand will cater to the other parties and then if elected go massively libertarian. If true I think it would still be a dishonest way to run a campaign. That's me though I'm not good at playing the political game.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    BS Quick, without looking, who is head of the party, anybody ever heard of him? Nyaah.

    How many state and above elected seats are held by party members? ZERO, same as The Constitution Party.

    What are the membership requirements? Same as any other American political party, pay to play and lip service.
    A lot of truth in that. I pissed off a lot of libertarian party members in my state by posting I'm a classical libertarian. Rothbard is the man!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    BS Quick, without looking, who is head of the party, anybody ever heard of him? Nyaah.

    How many state and above elected seats are held by party members? ZERO, same as The Constitution Party.

    What are the membership requirements? Same as any other American political party, pay to play and lip service.
    Just curious did you know the leader of the GOP without looking it up?
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    If he makes it a point that he'll try and get rid of the laws on suppressors, SBR's, and full auto's I hope he gets in regardless. I couldn't vote for him though because he apparently abandoned the foreign policy of his father so he wouldn't be automatically disqualified/assassinated by the plutocrats/oligarchy that rules us. Not in my name.

    The GOP takes a bigger crap on the fourth amendment than the demonrats.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Just curious did you know the leader of the GOP without looking it up?
    Unless it's the President (leader of his Party), I couldn't tell you any of them, except I remember when it was Howard Dean for the Democrats just because he was such as ******* always making headlines.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Unless it's the President (leader of his Party), I couldn't tell you any of them, except I remember when it was Howard Dean for the Democrats just because he was such as ******* always making headlines.
    The Chairman of the GOP is Reince Priebus. I hadn't heard of him before and had to look it up.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    They're going to put Scot Walker in there from what I've read. I think once they get a better neocon in there, we'll be conned into world war III. At least I'll be able to carry concealed in all 50 states under national reciprocity, should travel not be restricted for "homeland" security purposes.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    The Chairman of the GOP is Reince Priebus. I hadn't heard of him before and had to look it up.
    Of Kenosha, Wisconsin. Wisconsin is also home of the John Birch Society and JPFO.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Unless it's the President (leader of his Party), I couldn't tell you any of them, except I remember when it was Howard Dean for the Democrats just because he was such as ******* always making headlines.
    Debbie Wasserman Schultz is chairman.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    R and D's are the two sides of the same counterfeit coin.
    Amen to that. The only difference is one of them doesn't want to pay as much for the socialists/cummunist edicts that they both promote.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    UPDATE! GOP N.J. mayor, bans public from asking questions at council meetings

    Mayor Randy Brown of Evesham Township, New Jersey, has banned the public from asking questions at council meetings.

    The Republican mayor, who is also the kicking coach for the Baltimore Ravens, began the policy this year after he got into a heated argument at a December meeting, in which an 81-year-old man said he was “acting like a jerk,”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-asking-quest/

    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ne..._meetings.html
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