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Thread: examiner.com - Wrinkles in gun permit procedures rankle gun owners

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    examiner.com - Wrinkles in gun permit procedures rankle gun owners

    http://www.examiner.com/article/wrin...kle-gun-owners

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    When Accomac County, Virginia Circuit Court Clerk Samuel H. Cooper Jr., an elected official, began offering gun owners in his county the option under recent but obscure legislation to apply for a Virginia concealed handgun permit (CHP) that included a photo, he did not think the move would be controversial. But when it comes to gun regulations, things can get complicated pretty quickly.

    A number of gun owners applied for these photo-CHPs, but some of them and their associates in the gun rights blogosphere took a “deep dive” look at this new permit and didn't like some of the things they found. One criticism of Clerk Cooper was that his office’s photo-CHP contained . . .

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I know our clerk demands driver's license. And you go into the VCIN a criminal dB.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    I complained about this plastic permit when it first started. The law states what is to be on the CHP with no prevision for a picture. Among other issues.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    I know our clerk demands driver's license. And you go into the VCIN a criminal dB.
    Huh? Wha? "Demands driver's license" as in so as to satisfy the applicant identification requirement? And it's pretty much commom knowlege that the existence a CHP issued to you gets entered into VCIN. (Did you know that data stays in VCIN even if your CHP expires and is not renewed, or if your CHP has been revoked?)

    Are you on the same page as the OP?

    The whole kerfuffle was, and remains, that the Code of Virginia limits what information can be placed on the actual CHP. It also clearly distinguishes between the Resident CHP and the Non-Residence CHP as well as the information that goes on the latter that is not on the former. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...od+18.2-308.06
    [quote]D. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall contain only the following information: name, address, date of birth, gender, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes, and photograph of the permittee; the signature of the Superintendent of the Virginia Department of State Police or his designee; the date of issuance; and the expiration date.[/quote
    And I still do not see the CHP holder's DL number mentioned.

    I don't recall which Clerk it was that quoted http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...od+18.2-308.04 Section E
    .... The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall be no larger than two inches wide by three and one-fourth inches long and shall be of a uniform style prescribed by the Department of State Police.
    as "justification" for using the Non-Resident CHP blank when issuing Resident CHPs.

    This Examiner article is sort of like getting the tissue paper edition of the Big Newspapers From Back East via Pony Express after Western Union started sending verbatim news articles across the country where local newspapers would then print them. Real "news" only a day after it happened Back East.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Huh? Wha? "Demands driver's license" as in so as to satisfy the applicant identification requirement? And it's pretty much commom knowlege that the existence a CHP issued to you gets entered into VCIN. (Did you know that data stays in VCIN even if your CHP expires and is not renewed, or if your CHP has been revoked?)

    Are you on the same page as the OP?
    The form has a place to enter your SS# The clerk demands a photocopy of your Va Dr's license. The permit is in the VCIN cross referenced by VaDr's license number and Plate number on your car.

    Just adding info to the OP's post on stuff they put on the new permit for that county and what the regular process entails.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    The form has a place to enter your SS# The clerk demands a photocopy of your Va Dr's license. The permit is in the VCIN cross referenced by VaDr's license number and Plate number on your car.

    Just adding info to the OP's post on stuff they put on the new permit for that county and what the regular process entails.
    You seem to be discussing the CHP application form and how the Clerk processes it.

    The Examiner article addresses the actual CHP - the thing you slip in your wallet and have to show to a cop when he demands to see it. (Emphasis thanks to User who has frequently cited the actual words of the actual law when discussing "showing" versus "surrendering" (handing over) your CHP and state photo ID.)

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You seem to be discussing the CHP application form and how the Clerk processes it.

    The Examiner article addresses the actual CHP - the thing you slip in your wallet and have to show to a cop when he demands to see it. (Emphasis thanks to User who has frequently cited the actual words of the actual law when discussing "showing" versus "surrendering" (handing over) your CHP and state photo ID.)

    stay safe.
    You are correct. But some issues apply to both. A special permit with Va Dr's license and other ID stuff on it means the person had to give that when applying. Having it ON the permit is of little worry.

    I do not like that LAC's are in the VCIN. What if someone hit the wrong button? "type 4 for Permit holders"; "type 5 for serial rapists and killers of baby lambs". Yikes!

    Plus, being in that dB by license number and license plate leaves too much room for abuse by people who just don't like someone who is law abiding otherwise, or by other States, to target interstate drivers.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    You are correct. But some issues apply to both. A special permit with Va Dr's license and other ID stuff on it means the person had to give that when applying. Having it ON the permit is of little worry.

    I do not like that LAC's are in the VCIN. What if someone hit the wrong button? "type 4 for Permit holders"; "type 5 for serial rapists and killers of baby lambs". Yikes!

    Plus, being in that dB by license number and license plate leaves too much room for abuse by people who just don't like someone who is law abiding otherwise, or by other States, to target interstate drivers.
    Hence the purpose of SB 948 Concealed handgun permits; sharing of information, which, pathetically, the Governor will veto. The only thing left to see on this is what ridiculously lame excuse he gives for doing so.

    TFred

    Concealed handgun permits; sharing of information. Provides that information on concealed handgun permittees in the Virginia Criminal Information Network shall not be shared with law enforcement in states that do not have reciprocity agreements with Virginia for the carrying of concealed handguns.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Hence the purpose of SB 948 Concealed handgun permits; sharing of information, which, pathetically, the Governor will veto. The only thing left to see on this is what ridiculously lame excuse he gives for doing so.

    TFred

    Concealed handgun permits; sharing of information. Provides that information on concealed handgun permittees in the Virginia Criminal Information Network shall not be shared with law enforcement in states that do not have reciprocity agreements with Virginia for the carrying of concealed handguns.
    While that's a decent bill for CHP's, I wish he'd get on with vetoing some bills. As of this morning they were all still pinned to his dart board. Just checked...still no vetoes.
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-03-2015 at 08:09 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    While that's a decent bill for CHP's, I wish he'd get on with vetoing some bills. As of this morning they were all still pinned to his dart board. Just checked...still no vetoes.
    Gotta wait for something in the news cycle that will overshadow it... Or maybe a Friday at about 4:30?

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Gotta wait for something in the news cycle that will overshadow it... Or maybe a Friday at about 4:30?

    TFred
    I need to look at the constitution again but I think it's three days he has to act. Last year though, I tracked the SH Bill from the signing by the speaker and he let it sit for over a week. Claimed it didn't count if it was on his desk.

    Damn...I forgot they adjourned a day early. He has a month since they're not in session.
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-03-2015 at 10:47 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I need to look at the constitution again but I think it's three days he has to act. Last year though, I tracked the SH Bill from the signing by the speaker and he let it sit for over a week. Claimed it didn't count if it was on his desk.

    Damn...I forgot they adjourned a day early. He has a month since they're not in session.
    I noticed a new entry in the bill history this year. It gives the deadline for the Governor to act.

    See below for SB 948.

    TFred

    Status:
    01/09/15 Senate: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/14/15 15100309D
    01/09/15 Senate: Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
    01/19/15 Senate: Reported from Courts of Justice (10-Y 4-N)
    01/20/15 Senate: Constitutional reading dispensed (40-Y 0-N)
    01/21/15 Senate: Read second time and engrossed
    01/22/15 Senate: Read third time and passed Senate (24-Y 16-N)
    01/30/15 House: Placed on Calendar
    01/30/15 House: Read first time
    01/30/15 House: Referred to Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety
    02/06/15 House: Assigned MPPS sub: #1
    02/12/15 House: Subcommittee recommends reporting (4-Y 1-N)
    02/13/15 House: Reported from Militia, Police and Public Safety (14-Y 7-N)
    02/16/15 House: Read second time
    02/17/15 House: Read third time
    02/17/15 House: Passed House (66-Y 33-N)
    02/17/15 House: VOTE: PASSAGE (66-Y 33-N)
    02/20/15 Senate: Enrolled
    02/20/15 Senate: Bill text as passed Senate and House (SB948ER)
    02/20/15 House: Signed by Speaker
    02/23/15 Senate: Signed by President
    02/24/15 Senate: Enrolled Bill Communicated to Governor on 2/24/15
    02/24/15 Governor: Governor's Action Deadline Midnight, Sunday, March 29, 2015

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I noticed a new entry in the bill history this year. It gives the deadline for the Governor to act.

    See below for SB 948.

    TFred

    Status:
    01/09/15 Senate: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/14/15 15100309D
    01/09/15 Senate: Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
    01/19/15 Senate: Reported from Courts of Justice (10-Y 4-N)
    01/20/15 Senate: Constitutional reading dispensed (40-Y 0-N)
    01/21/15 Senate: Read second time and engrossed
    01/22/15 Senate: Read third time and passed Senate (24-Y 16-N)
    01/30/15 House: Placed on Calendar
    01/30/15 House: Read first time
    01/30/15 House: Referred to Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety
    02/06/15 House: Assigned MPPS sub: #1
    02/12/15 House: Subcommittee recommends reporting (4-Y 1-N)
    02/13/15 House: Reported from Militia, Police and Public Safety (14-Y 7-N)
    02/16/15 House: Read second time
    02/17/15 House: Read third time
    02/17/15 House: Passed House (66-Y 33-N)
    02/17/15 House: VOTE: PASSAGE (66-Y 33-N)
    02/20/15 Senate: Enrolled
    02/20/15 Senate: Bill text as passed Senate and House (SB948ER)
    02/20/15 House: Signed by Speaker
    02/23/15 Senate: Signed by President
    02/24/15 Senate: Enrolled Bill Communicated to Governor on 2/24/15
    02/24/15 Governor: Governor's Action Deadline Midnight, Sunday, March 29, 2015
    I missed that. Thanks TFred!

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