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Thread: Hmm...

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Cool Hmm...

    Michael Youlen stopped a driver in a Manassas apartment complex on a recent night and wrote the man a ticket for driving on a suspended license. With a badge on his chest and a gun on his hip, Youlen gave the driver a stern warning to stay off the road.

    The stop was routine police work, except for one fact: Youlen is not a Manassas officer. The citation came courtesy of the private force he created that, until recently, he called the “Manassas Junction Police Department.”

    He is its chief and sole officer.

    He is a force of one.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...cd7_story.html
    I wonder if this ex-cop would arrest a active cop he thought was breaking the law. Hmm...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    learned something new....thank you for posting.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    You are welcome. I had not heard of this thing before. We have reserve officers, only paid when called up, usually for large events. Not sure how the local cops interact with these private peace officers. Though, the fella in the article used to be a local cop, so he likely has little issues with local cops.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Read up on special conservators of the peace. There are some particular requirements and hoops to jump through.


    § 19.2-13. Special conservators of the peace; authority; jurisdiction; registration; bond; liability of employers; penalty; report.

    https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/leg...00+cod+19.2-13
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    ...Michael Youlen stopped a driver in a Manassas apartment complex on a recent night and wrote the man a ticket for driving on a suspended license. With a badge on his chest and a gun on his hip, Youlen gave the driver a stern warning to stay off the road.

    The stop was routine police work,...
    Something very critical is missing: the RAS for the stop. How did he know the man was driving with a suspended license?
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-02-2015 at 09:33 PM.
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I'm certified to train SCOPs. I'm anxious to see the new training requirements.
    James Reynolds

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Something very critical is missing: the RAS for the stop. How did he know the man was driving with a suspended license?
    Prior knowledge? We haven't heard the rest of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    I'm certified to train SCOPs. I'm anxious to see the new training requirements.
    Me too Jim. See the current excutive adminstration as wanting to take some of the teeth away from them though.

    My understanding, no cite provided, is that a SCOP is limited in scope as to their area of authority/responsibility - it is not a blanket, municipality nor state wide authorization.

    IMO - these citizen officers could provide a return to the officer friendly image. It certainly bridges a gap between sworn LEOs and auxillary officers.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    My understanding, no cite provided, is that a SCOP is limited in scope as to their area of authority/responsibility - it is not a blanket, municipality nor state wide authorization.

    IMO - these citizen officers could provide a return to the officer friendly image. It certainly bridges a gap between sworn LEOs and auxillary officers.
    Right....its limited to a place, like an apartment complex, housing community, etc.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Something very critical is missing: the RAS for the stop. How did he know the man was driving with a suspended license?

    Possible he stopped the driver for some other reason and discovered the bad license.

    I'm sure the stern warning did the trick.
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Right....its limited to a place, like an apartment complex, housing community, etc.
    Although a Judge could theoretically determine the authority as a whole incorporated political subdivision. Yes?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Possible he stopped the driver for some other reason and discovered the bad license.

    I'm sure the stern warning did the trick.
    He might have been able to discover an *expired* license, but unless SCOPs have radio access to Dispatch in their jurisdiction or the state DMV database, I don't see how he could have determined that the driver's license was suspended.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Although a Judge could theoretically determine the authority as a whole incorporated political subdivision. Yes?
    Most likely "No."

    Doing that would put him in direct competition with the existing police force. See the Va Constitution about there being only one government. A judge would have had to go to post-doctoral stupid school to try that.

    I'm just curious which "(i) [] sheriff or chief of police of any county, city, or town; (ii) any corporation authorized to do business in the Commonwealth; (iii) the owner, proprietor, or authorized custodian of any place within the Commonwealth; or (iv) any museum owned and managed by the Commonwealth" applied to the circuit court judge for his appointment. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+19.2-13

    And my money is on no "sheriff or chief of police". Any of the others would, if for no reason other than liability, want to limit the jurisdiction to their property boundaries.

    As an example - a gated community in Caroline County has Special Conservators of the Peace for their property - except for the one public road that traverses the property. If you throw litter on the roadway it's the County Sheriff's jurisdiction. But since the gated community made a deal with the state and county to do all maintenance/repair of what would normally be the easment, that works out to something like 6 inches from the edge of the pavement (which they mow and otherwise maintain anyway). Throw litter off onto the shoulder and it's their jurisdiction. I learned this from personal experience - not of throwing litter (ask Grapeshot where I put mine) but from asking the chief of the SCOP force because I was curious.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    He might have been able to discover an *expired* license, but unless SCOPs have radio access to Dispatch in their jurisdiction or the state DMV database, I don't see how he could have determined that the driver's license was suspended.
    One SCOP force (a large gated community probably 15 sq mi) I am aware of has radio contact with the County Sheriff who looks stuff up for them. Another one does not care about motor vehicle laws as their jurisdiction is apartment complexes where "bad driving" can be fit into vandalism or disturbing the peace if trespassing does not cover it.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Most likely "No."

    Doing that would put him in direct competition with the existing police force. See the Va Constitution about there being only one government. A judge would have had to go to post-doctoral stupid school to try that.

    I'm just curious which "(i) [] sheriff or chief of police of any county, city, or town; (ii) any corporation authorized to do business in the Commonwealth; (iii) the owner, proprietor, or authorized custodian of any place within the Commonwealth; or (iv) any museum owned and managed by the Commonwealth" applied to the circuit court judge for his appointment. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+19.2-13

    And my money is on no "sheriff or chief of police". Any of the others would, if for no reason other than liability, want to limit the jurisdiction to their property boundaries.

    As an example - a gated community in Caroline County has Special Conservators of the Peace for their property - except for the one public road that traverses the property. If you throw litter on the roadway it's the County Sheriff's jurisdiction. But since the gated community made a deal with the state and county to do all maintenance/repair of what would normally be the easment, that works out to something like 6 inches from the edge of the pavement (which they mow and otherwise maintain anyway). Throw litter off onto the shoulder and it's their jurisdiction. I learned this from personal experience - not of throwing litter (ask Grapeshot where I put mine) but from asking the chief of the SCOP force because I was curious.

    stay safe.
    As the limit is reached, he then trades his truck/van in on an empty one that has side mirrors that can be seen.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As an example - a gated community in Caroline County has Special Conservators of the Peace for their property - except for the one public road that traverses the property. If you throw litter on the roadway it's the County Sheriff's jurisdiction. But since the gated community made a deal with the state and county to do all maintenance/repair of what would normally be the easment, that works out to something like 6 inches from the edge of the pavement (which they mow and otherwise maintain anyway). Throw litter off onto the shoulder and it's their jurisdiction. I learned this from personal experience - not of throwing litter (ask Grapeshot where I put mine) but from asking the chief of the SCOP force because I was curious.

    stay safe.
    The one at Landor Lake on Ladysmith Rd by chance?
    Last edited by scouser; 03-03-2015 at 08:02 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    The one at Landor Lake on Ladysmith Rd by chance?
    Not gonna say.

    Know some of those SCOPes. They would make Good Cops but did not apply because of some picky ethical issues about who they would not work with.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Quick question - would the federal special permissions for carry for law enforcement apply to individuals active or retired from a private agency like this?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    Quick question - would the federal special permissions for carry for law enforcement apply to individuals active or retired from a private agency like this?
    No.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enf...ement_officers

    In 18 USC § 926B(c),[10] "qualified law enforcement officer" is defined as an employee of a governmental agency ....
    In 18 USC § 926C(c),[11] "qualified retired law enforcement officer" is defined as an individual who:
    separated from service in good standing from service with a public agency ....
    See http://www.policemag.com/channel/wea...ly-to-you.aspx for some citations to cases where positions not "normally" thought of as police officers were found to be covered. But the common factor is they were all associated with public governmental activities. That does include civillian protection forces hired to provise police and police-like service on federal property - such as the "cops" that patrol some military bases or even just do gate duty.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Took the course on my own probably ten years ago or so…,

    the situation at my work was heading towards having all of our full time officers become SCOPs, and I wanted to get ahead of the game and be familiar. Silly me, a regime change took place (as almost always), and the "momentum" turned 180 degrees. Now we are pretty much just "observe and report" warm bodies with a uniform and a flashlight.

    It was a good, though costly experience. Learned a great deal, met some awful nice folks, and was invited to take a look see at a firm that pretty much did this here in Virginia and "were" for lack of a better expression, the peace officers for a certain Virginia "community" that had as one of it's residents a former head coach for the "Washington Deadskins". Not going to mention any names or companies , but these folks were frequently called as "backup" or "first responders" for the county's Sheriff's department, IIRC.

    I will say this, a lot of those folks I met had way more on the ball than a whole lot of so called LEO's I've met, and way more integrity, JMHO though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Not gonna say.

    Know some of those SCOPes. They would make Good Cops but did not apply because of some picky ethical issues about who they would not work with.

    stay safe.
    Can anyone pick out the oxymoron in skid's post?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skidmark

    Not gonna say.

    Know some of those SCOPes. They would make Good Cops but did not apply because of some picky ethical issues about who they would not work with.

    stay safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Can anyone pick out the oxymoron in skid's post?
    It has been said that we see what we a predisposed to see by our vison - we see what we want to see.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...at-we-want-see
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It has been said that we see what we a predisposed to see by our vison - we see what we want to see.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...at-we-want-see
    " An just like the master, they deceive themselves"...
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Can anyone pick out the oxymoron in skid's post?
    Yes. If you've spent much time around Skid, you know the idea of him not saying something is somewhat oxymoronic.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Can anyone pick out the oxymoron in skid's post?
    It is Old News that it's an Open Secret that Military Intelligence tells me that applying an Original Copy of the Eloquent Silence of Falsely True idea of a Common Sense collected and assembled by Paid Volunteers will not remove the Reasonable Restrictions that are Almost Exactly like the Pretty Awful reasoning that is Clearly Confusing within the Deceptively Honest but Overbearingly Modest Humble Opinion of a Militant Pacifist such as yourself, and it will be Simply Impossible, even with Deliberate Speed, to overcome the Minor Crisis that follows the Cruel Passion that is Conspicuously Absent in the Dull Roar of the Deafening Silence no matter how many Loudly Whisper that donning rose-colored Plastic Glasses will eliminate the Intense Apathy and replace it with a Joyful Sadness for the Larger Half of the Loyal Opposition that were Found Missing in the original post.

    Surely you understand the Only Choice to give up the good fight over the Defenseless Protection of TM and (c) when there is no longer even the Limited Freedom of Pat Pending.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    It is Old News that it's an Open Secret that Military Intelligence tells me that applying an Original Copy of the Eloquent Silence of Falsely True idea of a Common Sense collected and assembled by Paid Volunteers will not remove the Reasonable Restrictions that are Almost Exactly like the Pretty Awful reasoning that is Clearly Confusing within the Deceptively Honest but Overbearingly Modest Humble Opinion of a Militant Pacifist such as yourself, and it will be Simply Impossible, even with Deliberate Speed, to overcome the Minor Crisis that follows the Cruel Passion that is Conspicuously Absent in the Dull Roar of the Deafening Silence no matter how many Loudly Whisper that donning rose-colored Plastic Glasses will eliminate the Intense Apathy and replace it with a Joyful Sadness for the Larger Half of the Loyal Opposition that were Found Missing in the original post.

    Surely you understand the Only Choice to give up the good fight over the Defenseless Protection of TM and (c) when there is no longer even the Limited Freedom of Pat Pending.

    stay safe.
    I've herd that all before and more....I was even OCing when I herd it.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-07-2015 at 02:33 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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