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Thread: Open carriers are 'wannabe vigilantes'

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Open carriers are 'wannabe vigilantes'

    This article made me sick. Hope it's not a repost.

    "The United States is loaded with wannabe vigilante “patriots” and those who feel they need to carry their gun everywhere they go. Many of these wannabe vigilantes are advocating for*open carry*laws in their respective states."

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/03...arry-wannabes/
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    Newbie Angelo's Avatar
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    If anyone were to say to me what they are suggesting in that article I'd ask them to show me a single case where that happened. Typical liberal, grasping at straws to try to take our rights away by insinuating that nothing but bad can come from us being prepared to defend ourselves and those around us from criminals.
    Last edited by Angelo; 03-07-2015 at 03:59 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    United States Air Force Sharpshooter Michael Wimberly wrote:
    As a retired commercial bank loan officer, I have experienced two armed robberies. I stared down the barrel of a 45-caliber semiautomatic handgun pointed at my forehead. Children were screaming, and no one knew what might tip the scale of tense engagement. We were all forced to lie on the floor. Later, police told us, "Lucky no shots were fired. We know these guys and they are bad dudes!"
    And this my friends is the reason why you should not open carry....
    Last edited by color of law; 03-07-2015 at 04:00 PM.

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    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    This article made me sick. Hope it's not a repost.

    "The United States is loaded with wannabe vigilante “patriots” and those who feel they need to carry their gun everywhere they go. Many of these wannabe vigilantes are advocating for*open carry*laws in their respective states."

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/03...arry-wannabes/
    The Author of that article needs someone to tell him what the word "context" means and how it applies to the wording in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. When the BOR was written the word "regulated" was not used the same way it is now. So many people use the modern (currently accepted) meanings of words that were used in a completely different way in a past era.
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    United States Air Force Sharpshooter Michael Wimberly wrote:

    And this my friends is the reason why you should not open carry....
    Were you saying this sarcastically? If not:

    I think we've heard all this foolishness before...
    You carry however you wish, and I'll do the same.
    Last edited by MamaLiberty; 03-07-2015 at 04:14 PM.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatieA View Post
    [ ... ] So many people use the modern (currently accepted) meanings of words that were used in a completely different way in a past era.
    LOL Called hermeneutics, so it's easier to be wrong than to pronounce it.

    Read on the Sokal Affiar, ignited by Alan Sokal's Social Text journal essay Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity (hint: it was a grand hoax).
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Two things.

    First, this scares me far more than an armed citizenry, "and carrying those arms is to be regulated by yes, the government". Anything regulated [modern definition] by any government is not about to remain static. You can bet that future "bureaucratps" will want to add their spin to this in an effort to advance their standing, their cause, and their agenda.

    Next, the meaning of the phrase, "well regulated". At the time the Bill of Rights was written, the root word "regulate" in this context meant "to keep and make regular". It did NOT mean what the writer of this article insists.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Two things.

    First, this scares me far more than an armed citizenry, "and carrying those arms is to be regulated by yes, the government". Anything regulated [modern definition] by any government is not about to remain static. You can bet that future "bureaucratps" will want to add their spin to this in an effort to advance their standing, their cause, and their agenda.

    Next, the meaning of the phrase, "well regulated". At the time the Bill of Rights was written, the root word "regulate" in this context meant "to keep and make regular". It did NOT mean what the writer of this article insists.
    Indeed "to keep and make regular" = normal, ordinary accepted practice.

    Therein one may find the root/basis for OCDO's goal of normalizing the OC of handguns as we go about our everyday lives.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Just more liberal bather from weak kneed reporters.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Interesting to note the addicting article alludes to Mr. Wimberly being a sharpshooter in the USAF, however, the Houston Chronicle (aka Chron) states Mr. Wimberly was certified as a sharpshooter! Distinct and huge difference.

    Good Heavens, so were the majority of those recruits who entered the USAF during the Conflict as they were run through basic training to meet the country's need. Remember the AF was trying to prove its muster against the other armed services and the TIs at the range if you hit the target consistently were awarded sharpshooter status. H3ll, one recruit have over a 150 holes in his target. Unfortunately, it was a 100 round range. didn't matter the blokes on either side of the recruit only had 75 or so holes in their targets as they were also awarded the sharpshooter certification. everyone passed as sharpshooter and off they went to SE Asia for the Conflict.

    it is obvious the Chron is against the TX OC legislature and dredged this paper pusher up to make a point. I am also sure they didn't check his DD 214 - service record to validate his award of the sharpshooter. http://www.chron.com/opinion/outlook...ry-6110845.php

    it is also interesting to not Mr. Whatshisname only displays the small arms marksmanship ribbon, an Outstanding Unit award, as well as the Nation Defence Service award in this foto. oh and reading his twitter acct...it appears he promotes fotos of the aviator G Bush...https://twitter.com/michaelmrw

    I'm sorry the alleged sharpshooter couldn't have stayed any more than minimum tour in the USAF and then sat behind a desk for the last 45 years pushing papers and due to some random isolated incident - real or perceived as it is not verified btw, where he now worries about some citizen have a gun which could have saved his life if things the bad guys had gone south. Oh and the police telling Mr. whatshisname the robbers were bad guy...what bovine manure...in the eyes of the law, everyone is a bad guy!

    of remembrance is the killeen TX massacre where the bad guy didn't stop...perhaps, just perhaps someone w/a firearm could have ended the rampage before 23 ppl died that fateful day in 1991. http://articles.latimes.com/1991-10-...0_1_worst-mass

    bottom line the bloke appears to be a fraud and out for his thirty seconds of political fame...you know i always wondered who handled the big oil money for those big power broker(s) guess we all know now huh!!

    ipse

    ps...WTF the Chron article is written by Mr whatshisname !!! self promoting BS...
    Last edited by solus; 03-08-2015 at 11:48 AM.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    United States Air Force Sharpshooter Michael Wimberly wrote:
    As a retired commercial bank loan officer, I have experienced two armed robberies. I stared down the barrel of a 45-caliber semiautomatic handgun pointed at my forehead. Children were screaming, and no one knew what might tip the scale of tense engagement. We were all forced to lie on the floor. Later, police told us, "Lucky no shots were fired. We know these guys and they are bad dudes!"
    And this my friends is the reason why you should not open carry....
    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    Were you saying this sarcastically? If not:

    I think we've heard all this foolishness before...
    You carry however you wish, and I'll do the same.
    MamaLiberty, I wrote the Cliff notes. Solus wrote the novel.

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    Exclamation

    The only 'wannabe' I wish to be is to be left alone in my daily pursuits.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrarian View Post
    The only 'wannabe' I wish to be is to be left alone in my daily pursuits.
    Expectation of grander.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Indeed "to keep and make regular" = normal, ordinary accepted practice.

    Therein one may find the root/basis for OCDO's goal of normalizing the OC of handguns as we go about our everyday lives.
    Yes, the way it was explained when I learned this was this. To keep meant to have a firearm; no real surprise there. To make regular meant to have it at the ready... at hand, regular.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    A mechanical watch must be well regulated (via adjustment) if it expected to maintain accuracy.

    Similarly, a militia must be well regulated (via training & practice) if it expected to maintain proficiency.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    A mechanical watch must be well regulated (via adjustment) if it expected to maintain accuracy.

    Similarly, a militia must be well regulated (via training & practice) if it expected to maintain proficiency.
    That is not the original meaning though.

    While proficiency is good, such cannot be allowed to define or limit the right i.e. as in only the very well trained be approved to keep and bear arms.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-08-2015 at 09:57 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While proficiency is good, such cannot be allowed to define or limit the right i.e. as in only the very well trained be approved to keep and bear arms.
    As part of the subjunctive clause, it does not define or limit the right. The pre-existing right of the people is recognized (no approval by Gov't needed, as you know), but the reminder to stay prepared and in practice (and why) is added as context.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    As part of the subjunctive clause, it does not define or limit the right. The pre-existing right of the people is recognized (no approval by Gov't needed, as you know), but the reminder to stay prepared and in practice (and why) is added as context.
    Yes, this is very clear without any historical analysis by robed secular priests. Even that "landmark" case coming to the same conclusion had enough qualifiers to render the amendment a dead letter to an anti gun court, as informed Floridians recently were reminded.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    This article made me sick. Hope it's not a repost.
    From the article: "United States Air Force Sharpshooter Michael Wimberly..."

    Throughout my 20 years in the Air Force, I never heard of the AFSC Code "sharpshooter."

    It's certainly not an officer specialty. I checked the Air Force's website, specifically the Enlisted AFSC Classifications, here, to see if it's one of the enlisted specialties.

    Nope.

    The only logical conclusion is that by "sharpshooter," Wimberly means he qualified for the "Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon."

    If that's what you meant, Wimberly, then, well, gee. So did I. In fact, I earned the ribbon eight times, on both the M9 (Beretta) and M16 (M16A2) weapons systems. Two systems means one pip (device). Very few officers carry a pip.

    Thus, based on my own qualifications, Wimberly, which are apparently equal to, if not greater than your own, as well as my quarter-century experience carrying a firearm, I hereby conclude that your statements and conclusions are full of crap.

    As for the heavily biased article itself, it mentions, "The police and military are trained — they are the “well-regulated militia” necessary to protect citizens."

    Again, more horse hockey. In fact, the 1982 Congressional Report on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms specifically states the following:

    "...the Framers used the term "militia" to relate to every citizen capable of bearing arms, and that Congress has established the present National Guard under its power to raise armies, expressly stating that it was not doing so under its power to organize and arm the militia" (p. 5).

    Thus, the article's distinction that "well-regulated militia" is necessary "to protect citizens" is a contradiction in terms

    Citizens ARE the militia.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    --snipped--
    Citizens ARE the militia.
    And henceforth evermore.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    1. Who doesn't want to be a hero? Weren't we all raised with the values of doing good and being the good guy? When did wanting to protect ourselves and others from harm turn into a bad thing?

    2. It's been highly-supported that private citizens spend much more time familiarizing themselves with their firearm(s). There are three subsets of gun owners (imo). Enthusiasts/carriers, home protection owners, and nefarious/illegal owners. If you compare apples to apples (LEO vs. Enthusiasts/carriers), the proficiency argument is likely a non-starter.

    3. Wrongly reading the Second Amendment is f**king idiotic.

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    Pretty twisted article that interprets the 2nd Amendment phrase “a well regulated militia” to empower government to regulate the right to keep and bear arms and require training.

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

    IMHO, there are a couple of ways to read the introductory clause “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state.” that don't empower government to regulate the right to keep and bear arms. But then, I'm not a judge or a public official, so these are just personal opinions.

    1. The right of the people to keep and bear arms is how the people regulate their government (the militia) and prevent its abuses (provide for the security of a free state). Said differently, the 2nd Amendment is intended to ensure that the people have the means of protecting themselves against the abuses of government and ensure that their state remains free.

    2. The people are the militia and, therefore, have a right to keep and bear arms. This is consistent with the Revolutionary-era suspicion of standing armies. This view (and the 1st one), view government and the people as potential adversaries and the 2nd Amendment as a means of protecting against government overreach.

    3. The introductory clause is merely a recitation of the reason for prohibiting government from infringing on the right to keep and bear arms. The meat of the 2nd Amendment is the 2nd clause that restricts actions of government – “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” The introductory clause has little substantive meaning -- it is just the “why” for the restrictions placed on government (“shall not be infringed”) described in the 2nd clause. This view is consistent with an inherent right of self defense or defense against government.

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Expectation of grander.
    It's 'grandeur' ... ''splendor and impressiveness, especially of appearance or style.'' or ''high rank or social importance."

    Neither of which are true.

    Just left alone to do what is necessary in my life.

    Hard to follow?

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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is not the original meaning though.

    While proficiency is good, such cannot be allowed to define or limit the right i.e. as in only the very well trained be approved to keep and bear arms.
    "The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it."

    -http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

    No one needs someone showing up with busted (or poorly mended) equipment : remember, Duct Tape hadn't been invented yet.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    winning comment:

    Sounds about right. Our forefathers couldn't have known we'd soon have semi-automatic, multi-round magazines capable of laying wastes to tens of hundreds of folks in short order
    Reply · Like · 17 · March 7 at 10:51am

    David Poole · Top Commenter
    and the First Amendment gives you the right to use a printing press and nothing more.

    Get off the Internet, you're using your rights incorrectly.
    Reply · Unlike · 35 · March 7 at 11:29am

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