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Concerning friends with felony charges.

P

PLUR

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
20
Location
North Carolina
First off, thanks to you guys for begin so quick to respond when I post questions here. With that out of the way I have another one for y'all.

Over the years I've had a few friends of mine get in trouble with the law and a few of them have been charged with felonies. I am not one to turn my back on someone and most of these people have turned their lives around since those days but those charges do follow you around for a long time. Recently one of these friends showed up at my place in the dead of night looking for a place to stay (trouble with the wife, thought it best to leave) and I let him crash for the night.

I know he's not supposed to be around or have access to guns so that got me thinking, is he allowed to be in my house? Over the last two years I have fell into a bit of a collection of handguns, rifles, and shotguns. Word got around the family that I shoot and they just keep sending them my way either to be cleaned/fixed or just for me to keep. A lot of them didn't have kids interested in taking care of these firearms so I ended up with them.

I'd hate for my friend to get in trouble because he stayed in my home or I entered his while OCing. Can I enter his house with my firearm? Does a holstered firearm on my person mean he has access to it under the law? What if I pick him up walking and have it holstered on my hip, or a shotgun in the rack? Is he breaking the law by accepting the ride?

I know this is "on him" but I'm trying to be a little proactive in this.
 
skidmark

skidmark

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Valhalla
Although a lot depends on how the information gets out and how the local prosecutor feels that day (I'm presuming he is off of post-conviction supervision), the general answer is Yes, he can be around you and your guns.

The phrase you are looking for is "constructive possession" - that legal fiction that basically says that although it is not his property and is not in fact in his hand, "it could be". Wearing your gun when he is at your place, or you at his, does not create constructive possession. Having all the guns except the one you are wearing locked up when he is at your place is not constructive possession. Haveing a long gun in a rack in te back window when he is a passenger is constructive possession - unless you can prove it was somehow locked (trigger lock or locked to the rack). He cannot go to the range with you - even if he stays in the car. However, at the moment that there is an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury, and only so long as that threat exists, he has the right of self defense without restriction as to how he defends himself.

If these things were not so there would need to be a fenced world with folks conviced of a felony on one side and folks not yet convicted on the other. Beyond the "if he's served his time" argument, if you believe that your friend has eiother learned his lesson or turned his life around then the fact of his felony conviction should be but a minor inconvenience.

I am too lazy to bother looking up and posting all the citations for "constructive possession." Besides, it is a nice morning and how better for you to spend it that learning something new?

Just remember that free advice is worth only half of what you paid for it. If you are worried about you getting in legal trouble you should consult a criminal defense attorney. If your friend is worried about him getting in trouble he should consult a criminal defense attorney rather than extrapolate from what your attorney told you.

stay safe.
 
wittmeba

wittmeba

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
143
Location
New Castle, Va
If you need an attorney you may want to contact this guy, John Pierce. He is a Va attorney but could have contacts in other states and may have a recommendation. I believe he is near Bristol, Va. He may provide brief free advise. He is on the VCDL.org Gun Friendly attorneys list.

You might also consider a local Gun Shop and see if they have a local favorite. Never hurts to know who your are talking to.

Home: https://www.vcdl.org/

Attorney list: http://www.hkshooter.net/lawyers/

His site: http://johnpierceesq.com/?page_id=26
 
WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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Messages
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Firearms Iinstuctor said:
Convicted felons are good people to stay away from you are risking a lot to keep hanging around with the criminal element.
Click to expand...

Emphasis on the word "convicted", not all people who commit felonies are caught. Yet those convicted can turn their lives around, to become sayyyyy a respected minister of several decades before he passed. Especially some of the silly laws that make people felons.

Considering that most people commit some crimes, you should seek out a monastery.
 
F

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,430
Location
northern wis
WalkingWolf said:
Emphasis on the word "convicted", not all people who commit felonies are caught. Yet those convicted can turn their lives around, to become sayyyyy a respected minister of several decades before he passed. Especially some of the silly laws that make people felons.

Considering that most people commit some crimes, you should seek out a monastery.
Click to expand...

One can chose to hang around criminals if one wants to I prefer not to.
 
skidmark

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Firearms Iinstuctor said:
One can chose to hang around criminals if one wants to I prefer not to.
Click to expand...

Giving you the benefit of the doubt that by "criminals" you meant "convicted felons" - do you do a background chek on everybody you "hang around" with?

Did you know that in most states "taking indecent liberties with a minor" and physical child abuse not resulting in permanent injury are only misdemeanors? And that most first-time drug dealing indictments are pled down to misdemeanors that often have judgement held in abayance and then dismissed following a term of good behavior? That nationally it takes roughly seven (7) DUI or driving on a revoked license convictions before any jail time is imposed?

It is estimated that those who consider themselves to be the most law-abiding violate at least three felony statutes each and every day.

stay safe.
 
F

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Messages
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northern wis
I guess one has to know what one means to hang out with. Casual meetings is not hanging out with having people over for dinner, going hunting, fishing and other occasion where one might spend hours or even days with some one.

Is a bit different.
 
WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Firearms Iinstuctor said:
I guess one has to know what one means to hang out with. Casual meetings is not hanging out with having people over for dinner, going hunting, fishing and other occasion where one might spend hours or even days with some one.

Is a bit different.
Click to expand...

Do you do background checks on your friends? Do they know you are running background checks on them?

Just myself I am more concerned about people's behavior. I certainly would not hang out with a complete arse hole just because they have a clean record. On the other hand I have no problem with polite, respectable people who have made a mistake and got their act together.
 
C

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
The person served their time and paid their debt to society and I am assuming no longer on parole.

So what is the issue? I am confused...

Regards
CCJ
 
bc.cruiser

bc.cruiser

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WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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Joined
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Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
P

PLUR

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
20
Location
North Carolina
skidmark said:
Although a lot depends on how the information gets out and how the local prosecutor feels that day (I'm presuming he is off of post-conviction supervision), the general answer is Yes, he can be around you and your guns.

The phrase you are looking for is "constructive possession" - that legal fiction that basically says that although it is not his property and is not in fact in his hand, "it could be". Wearing your gun when he is at your place, or you at his, does not create constructive possession. Having all the guns except the one you are wearing locked up when he is at your place is not constructive possession. Haveing a long gun in a rack in te back window when he is a passenger is constructive possession - unless you can prove it was somehow locked (trigger lock or locked to the rack). He cannot go to the range with you - even if he stays in the car. However, at the moment that there is an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury, and only so long as that threat exists, he has the right of self defense without restriction as to how he defends himself.

If these things were not so there would need to be a fenced world with folks conviced of a felony on one side and folks not yet convicted on the other. Beyond the "if he's served his time" argument, if you believe that your friend has eiother learned his lesson or turned his life around then the fact of his felony conviction should be but a minor inconvenience.

I am too lazy to bother looking up and posting all the citations for "constructive possession." Besides, it is a nice morning and how better for you to spend it that learning something new?

Just remember that free advice is worth only half of what you paid for it. If you are worried about you getting in legal trouble you should consult a criminal defense attorney. If your friend is worried about him getting in trouble he should consult a criminal defense attorney rather than extrapolate from what your attorney told you.

stay safe.
Click to expand...

Thank you this is exactly what I needed to know.
 
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