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Thread: Cash no good for CPL renewal?!?!?

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    Cash no good for CPL renewal?!?!?

    OK, this one has me semi-boggled.

    So the other day, I'm looking at my permission slip (CPL), and realize that I probably should have done the renewal paperwork last month sometime, as it expires in April. So I go looking for info on how to do the renewal now that I'm actually in an incorporated city (When I initially got it, I was in "unincorporated King County", and ended up going through the KCSO in downtown Seattle)

    So I go looking, and find http://www.covingtonwa.gov/city_departments/police.html

    As I scan through, approx 2/3 down the page, under the heading "How do I obtain a Concealed Pistol Permit?" I see the following "gem":

    Quote (Content is theirs, format mangling, if any, is mine)
    The King County Sheriff's Office is open Monday through Friday from 8:30 a.m.-4 p.m. The Maple Valley office (located at 22300 SE 231st Street in Maple Valley) issues new Concealed Pistol Permits by appointment only. You must call first to make the appointment at 206-477-6446. For replacements or renewals, no appointment is necessary. The KCSO accepts check or money order only.
    End quote

    Pay special attention to the last sentence. The one that ends "...accepts check or money order only."

    Cash isn't any good anymore?

    So I go looking at RCW 9.41.070 on one of the ".wa.gov" websites, thinking I remember seeing something about payment methods. I also need a memory-bump on just how much money I need to take along. Sure enough, when I get there, I find:

    (6) The nonrefundable fee for the renewal of such license shall be thirty-two dollars. No other branch or unit of government may impose any additional charges on the applicant for the renewal of the license.
    <elide breakdown of how the funds get spread around, and subsection 7, which addresses the the price for replacement of a lost or damaged CPL>
    (8) Payment shall be by cash, check, or money order at the option of the applicant. Additional methods of payment may be allowed at the option of the issuing authority.

    OK, so here's the deal - I've got the cash in hand. For reasons I don't care to go into, I don't do checks. I'm not interested in paying extra to buy a money order. I simply want to renew my CPL. The office I'm supposed to talk to (apparently) doesn't want my cash. I don't really have time (admittedly, due to my own not paying close attention) to dink around arguing with them before I'll either be illegal when I step out the door of my house (I'm close enough to a school for the legislative stupidity known as the GFSZ to bite me in the hindquarters) or I'll be needing to pay late fees if there's too much of a "scuffle" about it. At the same time, the law is there, in black and white: Cash, check, or money order *AT THE OPTION OF THE APPLICANT*.

    What's my most reasonable next move?

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    Thurston county takes everything including plastic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CheerfulHoplite View Post
    OK, this one has me semi-boggled.
    The King County Sheriff's Office is open Monday through Friday from 8:30 a.m.-4 p.m. The Maple Valley office (located at 22300 SE 231st Street in Maple Valley) issues new Concealed Pistol Permits by appointment only. You must call first to make the appointment at 206-477-6446. For replacements or renewals, no appointment is necessary. The KCSO accepts check or money order only.
    The highlighted portion also does not comply with RCW 9.41.070(1)

    The issuing authority shall not refuse to accept completed applications for concealed pistol licenses during regular business hours.

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    What's your "next move"?

    I guess either go to the Court House in DT Seattle where the KCSO fulfills the requirements of the RCW, or just get over it.

    There is no requirement that the obligations of the RCW are met at each and every Department facility. They offer everything at the Courthouse. ADDITIONALLY, they offer other options (albeit with some limitations) at other facilities.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 911Boss View Post
    What's your "next move"?

    I guess either go to the Court House in DT Seattle where the KCSO fulfills the requirements of the RCW, or just get over it.

    There is no requirement that the obligations of the RCW are met at each and every Department facility. They offer everything at the Courthouse. ADDITIONALLY, they offer other options (albeit with some limitations) at other facilities.

    ???There's no requirement they follow the law?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 911Boss View Post
    What's your "next move"?

    I guess either go to the Court House in DT Seattle where the KCSO fulfills the requirements of the RCW, or just get over it.

    There is no requirement that the obligations of the RCW are met at each and every Department facility. They offer everything at the Courthouse. ADDITIONALLY, they offer other options (albeit with some limitations) at other facilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    ???There's no requirement they follow the law?
    They do follow thew law at the Sheriff's Office HQ in the King County Court House. The RCW says they have to do "A, B, C". They do "A, B, C" at the courthouse therefore RCW is followed.

    in addition, they offer options at other locations but with some limitations (due to cost and staffing issues most likely). Nothing in the RCW says they have to offer everything at every location. How hard is that to understand?

    I guess the answer would be to shut down CPL processing anywhere other than the Courthouse (like Sno CO does)?

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    There is no requirement that the obligations of the RCW are met at each and every Department facility.
    That's like saying there's no requirement that the obligations of any RCW are met during each and every sheriff's contact with the public. I mean, it doesn't say so in the RCW so . . . .

    You're thinking and talking like a
    Bureaucrat. I'm sure that's not the impression you wish to leave . . .
    Last edited by deanf; 03-16-2015 at 09:56 PM.

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    ...9.41.070 (8) Payment shall be by cash, check, or money order at the option of the applicant. Additional methods of payment may be allowed at the option of the issuing authority.
    The KCSO accepts check or money order only.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=42.20.100

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 911Boss View Post
    They do follow thew law at the Sheriff's Office HQ in the King County Court House. The RCW says they have to do "A, B, C". They do "A, B, C" at the courthouse therefore RCW is followed.

    in addition, they offer options at other locations but with some limitations (due to cost and staffing issues most likely). Nothing in the RCW says they have to offer everything at every location. How hard is that to understand?

    I guess the answer would be to shut down CPL processing anywhere other than the Courthouse (like Sno CO does)?
    Not hard to understand that they don't think they have to follow the law all the time everywhere......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Not hard to understand that they don't think they have to follow the law all the time everywhere.....
    ... they're the sovereign's made men.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Not hard to understand that they don't think they have to follow the law all the time everywhere......
    While I think you should go to any city police or county sheriff to apply for a CWP (as long as we're "agreeing" to have a permit), the phrasing of the RCW does state "completed application."

    It doesn't say everywhere must provide the requirements of completing the application during regular business hours.

    Furthermore, there is no specification on whom can perform fingerprinting, just that your fingerprints must be submitted. Do it yourself (anything not prohibited is permissible) and get $4 back (RCW 9.41.070 5(b)).

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    Well, for what it's worth...

    Here's a tale of I-dunno-what-to-call-it:

    First off, the night before my original post, I called the covington PD "non-emergency" number. Got someone who identified himself as an "information officer", though I didn't think to write down his name. Put bluntly, the guy sounded clueless from the start. Can't say specifically why, just an impression. I was wanting to verify that yes, I should be going to the police station in city hall (across 272nd from Freddy's here in Covington. Asked that VERY specifically) Was assured that yes, that's the right place to go. Wanted to be certain that since I was doing a renewal, I didn't need an appointment. Yes, that's correct. Wanted to find out hours of operation - 8:30 - 4:00. OK, good enough.

    So the day after I made my original post, dropped into Wally-world about 8:20-ish, and got the M.O. - wasn't pleased, but, as mentioned in the OP, I was under a bit of a time crunch (My permission slip was due to expire April 5) due to not paying close attention. and I really didn't have a lot of interest in getting into a ******* contest.

    Tooled on down to city hall, arrived at about quarter to 9, and got the first surprise of the morning - "Uh... The police haven't been located here for almost two years now - You need to go out to the precinct office in Maple Valley". Lovely... I'm under more than one time crunch - I'm due at work at 9:30. They need to change the title of the guy I talked to on the phone - "MIS-information officer" would seem apropo.

    OK, no point ******* and moaning about it, so I hump on out to Maple Valley, locate the place I need, and find the doors locked. At 9, give or take a minute or two. So much for "8:30-4", I guess... Heading back to the car, figuring this trip was a waste, when I heard the clank of a key turning in the door lock. Turn back around and head in. Explain I need to renew my CPL. Gal behind the bulletproof glass says I need to make an appointment. NO, says I, I'm looking to do a renewal, not a new one. Oh, she says, and tells me she needs to see my current one. OK, no biggie. Pull jacket back to get to wallet, and she throws a look at me that could have curdled milk at 50 paces as my gun is exposed. (Damn right I was strapped!) After inspecting the old one, she slides it and the paperwork to me through the slot. Just about the time I'm sitting down to fill out the form, a group of people walks in the door and up to the window - "We've got appointments for 9:30, 10, 10:30, and 11" they say, more or less in rapid-fire mode. "Appointments for what?" says the gal behind the window. "Fingerprinting - we're here to get concealed carry permits". At this point, I feel pretty confident in thinking that the gal behind the window is an anti-gun type - If looks could kill, the one she gave the group wouldn't have just made them dead - they would have been stinking puddles of decomposed goo soaking into the carpeting. I chuckle and think to myself "Booming business this morning, but she sure ain't happy about it!", and go about filling out my paperwork.

    Get it done, take it back up, a different gal comes to the window, and while she's leafing through it, I ask - very civil and polite, no smart-assery or anything - about the "no cash" concept, including quoting chapter and verse from 9.41. Cooked down to essentials, the answer was "The fact that you can come here instead of having to go to downtown Seattle is a convenience service that we don't have to offer. If you want to pay cash, go there. We're not required to provide this service here at all - we could be like <I missed the county she named - I *THINK* she said Thurston county> where they only take applications at the county seat."

    Like I said, I'm not interested in a ******* contest - I just want to get my renewal before it expires - so I just kinda smile and nod.

    The rest of the visit was pretty much uneventful, and I managed to get things done and myself to work on time. The one thing that made my ears perk up was when she told me that "You should get your new one in the mail in 2-3 weeks". I was rather surprised, since the postmark on the envelope that brought me my original back in 2010 was *THE* 30th calendar day after I put in for it. And I mentioned that. She says "Well, that was the original. It takes longer the first time". Uh... OK. And off I went, headed for work.

    I'm still thinking there's something rotten in Denmark about them not taking cash, but... <shrug> Done is done, and all's well that ends well.

    Now, note that my renewal went in sometime between 9 and 9:30 AM on the 9th.

    This evening when I walked into the house after work, I found stuck to my doorknob an envelope addressed to me in my own handwriting, with the KCSO letterhead in the return address space. A rather familiar looking envelope, since I'd last seen it on the 9th.

    Looking at the postmark, it went through the pitney-bowes meter on the 13th, the post office datestamped/cancelled it on the 14th at 13:09, and here it is in my grubby little paws today, the 17th. Uh-oh... this is WAY too soon... What went wrong?

    Get it open, and <whew!> Nothing went wrong! My shiny-new permission slip is inside, along with a xeroxed one-line note: "NOTICE: Retain your previous license until the expiration date printed on it. This renewal license is not valid until that date."

    However, I still can't quite swallow the legality of their refusing to take cash... Nor can I decide quite what, if anything, I ought to try to do about it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    While I think you should go to any city police or county sheriff to apply for a CWP (as long as we're "agreeing" to have a permit), the phrasing of the RCW does state "completed application."

    It doesn't say everywhere must provide the requirements of completing the application during regular business hours.

    Furthermore, there is no specification on whom can perform fingerprinting, just that your fingerprints must be submitted. Do it yourself (anything not prohibited is permissible) and get $4 back (RCW 9.41.070 5(b)).
    Not talking about the "loopholes".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CheerfulHoplite View Post
    Well, for what it's worth...


    ... Nor can I decide quite what, if anything, I ought to try to do about it.

    Get over it maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    That's like saying there's no requirement that the obligations of any RCW are met during each and every sheriff's contact with the public. I mean, it doesn't say so in the RCW so . . . .

    You're thinking and talking like a
    Bureaucrat. I'm sure that's not the impression you wish to leave . . .
    No it's not like that at all.

    Folks on on this board are real big on specific, literal readings of the law. They also frequently cite that what isn't in the law isn't part of the law or that the law says what isn't allowed and anything not mentioned is allowed.

    You know the main argument validating OC in this state, that nothing in the laws says it can't be done so ipso facto it must mean it can be done, right? Well that is a two way street.

    The requirements of the law are met at the Courthouse.
    The law doesn't say that additional options can't be offered, therefore additional options CAN be offered.
    The law doesn't say that anywhere an application is accepted ALL requirements must be met, therefore having additional options with limitations is legal.

    Call me a "bureaucrat" if you wish and it makes you feel better. It really isn't that complicated and there really isn't some grand conspiracy in King County to make it as difficult as possible to exercise your rights or try to make the process more complicated or bothersome.

    Reality is that every thing, service, facility, employee, etc. has a dollar sign attached and there is in fact a limit to how many dollars the Sheriff's office has available. I think most reasonable folks would see this as striking a balance between service and convenience for people who don't frequent downtown.

    Go ahead and get all worked up over it, moan and complain that they could do better, etc. However trying to make the leap that it is somehow a violation of RCW or some nefarious plot to destroy gun rights is quite a stretch.

    King County goes above and beyond the requirement and offers multiple additional locations with geographical if not financial convenience whereas many other Countys require people to go to a single, central location.

    King County regularly processes applications for original and renewal CPL pretty consistently with a 1-2 day turnaround (absent complications) and then once the process is complete, issues them without delay. Meanwhile, many other SO and PD drag their feet on the process and then will intentionally wait until day 30 to put them in the mail just because they can.

    King County SO has a pretty good reputation in regards to how it treats folks in OC contacts and their training on OC matters has been held up on this very board as a standard that other agencies should follow.

    All in all, I would say there are far worse jurisdictions for gun ownership, CPL process, and OC interaction.

    Mildly inconvenienced one day every five years, and by the OP's own admission the expiration date caught him off guard so a little more attention to detail better prior planning on his part could have reduced some of the drama. If that's is the worst thing anyone has to worry about, life is good. Seriously a "First World" problem...
    Last edited by 911Boss; 03-20-2015 at 07:38 AM.

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    LOL I doubt this public servant has ever read 31 U.S. Code 5103 - Legal tender, or understood the provenance of
    This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 03-20-2015 at 07:41 AM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 911Boss View Post
    No it's not like that at all.

    Folks on on this board are real big on specific, literal readings of the law. They also frequently cite that what isn't in the law isn't part of the law or that the law says what isn't allowed and anything not mentioned is allowed.

    You know the main argument validating OC in this state, that nothing in the laws says it can't be done so ipso facto it must mean it can be done, right? Well that is a two way street.

    The requirements of the law are met at the Courthouse.
    The law doesn't say that additional options can't be offered, therefore additional options CAN be offered.
    The law doesn't say that anywhere an application is accepted ALL requirements must be met, therefore having additional options with limitations is legal.

    Call me a "bureaucrat" if you wish and it makes you feel better. It really isn't that complicated and there really isn't some grand conspiracy in King County to make it as difficult as possible to exercise your rights or try to make the process more complicated or bothersome.

    Reality is that every thing, service, facility, employee, etc. has a dollar sign attached and there is in fact a limit to how many dollars the Sheriff's office has available. I think most reasonable folks would see this as striking a balance between service and convenience for people who don't frequent downtown.

    Go ahead and get all worked up over it, moan and complain that they could do better, etc. However trying to make the leap that it is somehow a violation of RCW or some nefarious plot to destroy gun rights is quite a stretch.

    King County goes above and beyond the requirement and offers multiple additional locations with geographical if not financial convenience whereas many other Countys require people to go to a single, central location.

    King County regularly processes applications for original and renewal CPL pretty consistently with a 1-2 day turnaround (absent complications) and then once the process is complete, issues them without delay. Meanwhile, many other SO and PD drag their feet on the process and then will intentionally wait until day 30 to put them in the mail just because they can.

    King County SO has a pretty good reputation in regards to how it treats folks in OC contacts and their training on OC matters has been held up on this very board as a standard that other agencies should follow.

    All in all, I would say there are far worse jurisdictions for gun ownership, CPL process, and OC interaction.

    Mildly inconvenienced one day every five years, and by the OP's own admission the expiration date caught him off guard so a little more attention to detail better prior planning on his part could have reduced some of the drama. If that's is the worst thing anyone has to worry about, life is good. Seriously a "First World" problem...

    You do realize the highlighted portion applies to the civilians not to governments right?

    It absolutely isn't a two way street. Governments do not get to do what ever they wan't as long as its not "prohibited".
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 03-20-2015 at 08:03 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CheerfulHoplite View Post
    --snipped--
    (8) Payment shall be by cash, check, or money order at the option of the applicant. Additional methods of payment may be allowed at the option of the issuing authority.

    OK, so here's the deal - I've got the cash in hand........................ Cash, check, or money order *AT THE OPTION OF THE APPLICANT*.
    Other "options" might be: money order, credit or debit card. Note that these possibilities are not requirements, but could be "allowed at the option of the issuing authority."

    Quote Originally Posted by 911Boss View Post
    No it's not like that at all.

    --snipped--refer to original if you must--

    Folks on on this board are real big on specific, literal readings of the law. They also frequently cite that what isn't in the law isn't part of the law or that the law says what isn't allowed and anything not mentioned is allowed.

    You know the main argument validating OC in this state, that nothing in the laws says it can't be done so ipso facto it must mean it can be done, right? Well that is a two way street.
    No sir, it is not a "two way street."

    The requirements of the law are met at the Courthouse.
    The law doesn't say that additional options can't be offered, therefore additional options CAN be offered.
    An additional location is not an option under the terms. It may be a convenience, but no one can be forced to go to the secondary location.
    The law doesn't say that anywhere an application is accepted ALL requirements must be met, therefore having additional options with limitations is legal.
    Again, with respect, the law does not state that which you conclude. Yes, all "requirements" must be satisfied - no exceptions/options.

    King County goes above and beyond the requirement and offers multiple additional locations with geographical if not financial convenience whereas many other Countys require people to go to a single, central location.
    King County is not going "above and beyond the requirement" as there is no requirement to only have a single location.

    All in all, I would say there are far worse jurisdictions for gun ownership, CPL process, and OC interaction.
    Most of my responses are embedded in blue above.

    As to your last sentence/paragraph referring to "far worse jurisdictions" that has nothing to do with whether King County is following the law and is not justification to the OP for their failure.

    Get the corrections made in the King County process, then hold up their procedures as a model to be emulated.

    If asking/demanding that they comply and did not get such correction, I would move to the Writ of Mandamus process.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=7.16.040

    1.41 Writ of Mandamus

    A writ of mandamus may be issued by the court to compel the performance of an act which the law enjoins as a duty resulting from an office, trust, or station. RCW 7.16.160. The writ of mandamus may be either alternative or peremptory. The alternative writ must state generally the allegation against the party to whom it is directed, and command such party immediately to do the act required to be performed or to show cause before the court at a specified time why the party has not done the act as commanded. The peremptory writ is in similar form, except the words requiring the party to show cause why (s)he has not done the act as commanded are omitted and a return date inserted. RCW 7.16.180. The writ is served in the same manner as a summons in a civil action, except when otherwise expressly directed by order of the court. RCW 7.16.270. Where the writ presents questions of fact that are essential to the determination of the motion, the court, in its discretion, may order the question tried before a jury, and postpone the argument until after the trial. The question to be tried must be distinctly stated in the order for trial. RCW 7.16.210.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-20-2015 at 08:27 AM.
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  19. #19

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    It is really this simple: RCW says you have to accept it during business hours and accept specific forms of payment. KCSO does that at the Courthouse, obligation met, case closed. The idea of filing suit with the argument of trying to make them do something they already do is insane. They do more than they have to by law, what people really want is to make them do more even more over and above the already more than they have to do. I got a paycheck that says that is not going to happen.

    Go ahead, take them to court. Have you heard the old story about cutting off your nose to spite your face? I am pretty sure any such writ would only succeed in making the Courthouse in DT Seattle the ONLY place where the applications would be accepted (assuming it wasn't just tossed for being ridiculous and ignorant).

    You our zealots crack me up. I used to enjoy this board for the information and conversations available, even met a few nice folks at get togethers back in the day. Now it offers little more than entertainment value.

    The mentality displayed here does more harm then good just like the inbred yahoos that had to waive guns around in the chambers causing new rules barring OC there. Same mentality driving more away from the cause than changing minds towards it.



    Back to lurking now...
    Last edited by 911Boss; 03-20-2015 at 09:08 AM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    So those who believe that government has only delegated powers are zealots, idiots, yahoos, and only entertainment value.

    Yet you haven't offered any support for your false statement...
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 911Boss View Post
    Go ahead, take them to court. Have you heard the old story about cutting off your nose to spite your face? I am pretty sure any such writ would only succeed in making the Courthouse in DT Seattle the ONLY place where the applications would be accepted.

    You our zealots crack me up. I used to enjoy this board for the information and conversations available, even met a few nice folks at get togethers back in the day. Now it offers little more than entertainment value.

    The mentality displayed here does more harm then good just like the inbred yahoos that had to waive guns around in the chambers causing new rules barring OC there.


    Back to lurking now...
    The goal was not to entertain you, but to set the record straight - to give the FACTS.

    You ignore responding to the requirements of the law (above), forgive others ignoring the legal requirements when it is convenient to you, then offer insult as your closing remark.....nice touch.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
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    It is a proud public servant answering back to its public masters.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Keep in mine, coins are cash too.

    It is a legal protest to pay in coins..... Property taxes, car taxes, licenses, etc.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    It is a proud public servant answering back to its public masters.
    Exactly what I was thinking.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Keep in mine, coins are cash too.

    It is a legal protest to pay in coins..... Property taxes, car taxes, licenses, etc.
    Well there is always this...

    No State shall ....... make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;

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