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Thread: Friend yelled at by manager at West Allis Speedway

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    Friend yelled at by manager at West Allis Speedway

    I absolutely hate to report this hearsay, but I can't convince my buddy to come on here and tell it himself.

    I'll post this exactly as he told it to me:

    Today my friend and I were going to hang out so he was on his way over. At about 1:00PM he stopped at the Speedway at 10306 W. Greenfield Avenue, West Allis, Wisconsin to get a soda. He was carrying a baby Glock both in a pocket holster and using Clip Draw. When he paid for his soda the manager "Carol" barked at him that next time she didn't want him coming in her store with his gun. He advised her that her store was not posted, and open carry was legal. According to him she snapped "I don't care! No 'uncased' weapons in here."

    He asked her if discriminating against lawful gun carriers was Speedways corporate policy she snapped at him "no, it's my policy. Do not come in here again armed ever again". He said the entire encounter was only about 20 seconds long,

    I did get him to call the Speedway corporate office and lodged a complaint, and also leave a message for the district manager.

    He showed me how his weapon was. One could barely see it, And it was fully secured in a pocket holster with the Clip draw over the pocket holding it very firm. It's not as if it was hanging out. It barely qualified as OC in my opinion.

    As manager I suppose she has the authority to tell whoever she wants not to carry there. But the customer service rep he spoke with said the store must be posted if the manager doesn't want weapons carried. Not only is that station not posted, I've open carried there several times using a Blackhawk Serpa and nobody ever said a word to me. Also, I've seen other people OC in there. This woman clearly has an agenda. The fact that I and others have OC'd there means he was picked out. He really didn't even intend to open carry. He thought it was tucked down in the pocket holster enough to be unseen.

    Alright. What does he do next? Should we wait and see the results of his complaint? That could take a while.
    I think what he's most P.O.'d about is how embarrassing it was to have this woman scold him in public for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
    Last edited by pkbites; 03-11-2015 at 04:57 PM.

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    lots of people dropping off no guns no money cards or some protesters out side the store might help.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 03-11-2015 at 05:19 PM.
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    Like it's the only c-store or speedway in West Allis. Sheesh.

    http://www.hoursmap.com/c/west+allis...tions-s1338135
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    Regular Member Elm Creek Smith's Avatar
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    If I hadn't paid her yet, I'd have just left my purchase on the counter, told her I wasn't going to pay for the privilege of being abused, and left.
    "If the truth hurts, it should." - Dad

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    ...But the customer service rep he spoke with said the store must be posted if the manager doesn't want weapons carried...
    I'd be very surprised if, after contact with corporate people who are NOT customer service reps (IOW, are higher up the ladder), that the company would allow managers to set a carry policy according to their wishes.

    Regardless, I trust that your friend, and anyone else who chooses to call corporate, is respectful in their dialogue with decision-makers.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I don't live that far from there. Maybe I'll have to make a stop by there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    I absolutely hate to report this hearsay, but I can't convince my buddy to come on here and tell it himself.

    I'll post this exactly as he told it to me:

    Today my friend and I were going to hang out so he was on his way over. At about 1:00PM he stopped at the Speedway at 10306 W. Greenfield Avenue, West Allis, Wisconsin to get a soda. He was carrying a baby Glock both in a pocket holster and using Clip Draw. When he paid for his soda the manager "Carol" barked at him that next time she didn't want him coming in her store with his gun. He advised her that her store was not posted, and open carry was legal. According to him she snapped "I don't care! No 'uncased' weapons in here."

    He asked her if discriminating against lawful gun carriers was Speedways corporate policy she snapped at him "no, it's my policy. Do not come in here again armed ever again". He said the entire encounter was only about 20 seconds long,

    I did get him to call the Speedway corporate office and lodged a complaint, and also leave a message for the district manager.

    He showed me how his weapon was. One could barely see it, And it was fully secured in a pocket holster with the Clip draw over the pocket holding it very firm. It's not as if it was hanging out. It barely qualified as OC in my opinion.

    As manager I suppose she has the authority to tell whoever she wants not to carry there. But the customer service rep he spoke with said the store must be posted if the manager doesn't want weapons carried. Not only is that station not posted, I've open carried there several times using a Blackhawk Serpa and nobody ever said a word to me. Also, I've seen other people OC in there. This woman clearly has an agenda. The fact that I and others have OC'd there means he was picked out. He really didn't even intend to open carry. He thought it was tucked down in the pocket holster enough to be unseen.

    Alright. What does he do next? Should we wait and see the results of his complaint? That could take a while.
    I think what he's most P.O.'d about is how embarrassing it was to have this woman scold him in public for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
    Pikbites: Same story at Ellsworth Neilssen's groceries. I was looking at potted plants outside and a manager came and said i can't bring my gun in. I asked if it was policy. he said yes but had lied cause I called the owner Mr Neilssen. I also told the manager the store was not posted. Owner asked me to cc in store. We told store manager we will not be shopping there, except for small dollar items in emergency. They want it both ways. Don't come in and we won't post.

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    Where is it written?

    That a private business must post to prohibit firearms? It is certainly one (perhaps the best) method but I think notice was given when Managerette Carol barked at your friend. Open Carry is (generally) legal but that just means that the government cannot do mean things to you (at least theoretically). Concealing won't help at this point if she recognizes him and knows he does carry. You're a (former?) LEO. What would you do if Carol summoned you and all parties stipulated to the following: (1) Friend was told by Carol not to enter store with uncased firearm. (2) Friend subsequently entered store with uncased firearm (concealed or open) to purchase Slurpee and was not rude or disruptive in any way?


    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    I absolutely hate to report this hearsay, but I can't convince my buddy to come on here and tell it himself.

    I'll post this exactly as he told it to me:

    Today my friend and I were going to hang out so he was on his way over. At about 1:00PM he stopped at the Speedway at 10306 W. Greenfield Avenue, West Allis, Wisconsin to get a soda. He was carrying a baby Glock both in a pocket holster and using Clip Draw. When he paid for his soda the manager "Carol" barked at him that next time she didn't want him coming in her store with his gun. He advised her that her store was not posted, and open carry was legal. According to him she snapped "I don't care! No 'uncased' weapons in here."

    He asked her if discriminating against lawful gun carriers was Speedways corporate policy she snapped at him "no, it's my policy. Do not come in here again armed ever again". He said the entire encounter was only about 20 seconds long,

    I did get him to call the Speedway corporate office and lodged a complaint, and also leave a message for the district manager.

    He showed me how his weapon was. One could barely see it, And it was fully secured in a pocket holster with the Clip draw over the pocket holding it very firm. It's not as if it was hanging out. It barely qualified as OC in my opinion.

    As manager I suppose she has the authority to tell whoever she wants not to carry there. But the customer service rep he spoke with said the store must be posted if the manager doesn't want weapons carried. Not only is that station not posted, I've open carried there several times using a Blackhawk Serpa and nobody ever said a word to me. Also, I've seen other people OC in there. This woman clearly has an agenda. The fact that I and others have OC'd there means he was picked out. He really didn't even intend to open carry. He thought it was tucked down in the pocket holster enough to be unseen.

    Alright. What does he do next? Should we wait and see the results of his complaint? That could take a while.
    I think what he's most P.O.'d about is how embarrassing it was to have this woman scold him in public for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    How did he know she was the manager? I suspect embellishing.

    At any rate, best response would have been to 1) ignore her, or 2) put your stuff back on the counter and demand a refund.

    Don't suppose your friend was running a recorder? If not, it's all hearsay.

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    I know its kind of an automatic defensive reaction, but when confronted and told you "can't carry that in here", please do not say there were no signs.

    If you mention signs, then signs will come. Then, even CCers won't be able to carry in that place.

    Discuss it politely if you must. But, try to resist mentioning signs.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    As manager I suppose she has the authority to tell whoever she wants not to carry there.
    Haw!-Haw!
    I suppose not. As a manager she probably has the authority to decide when the bathrooms get mopped and that is about it!
    I would urge a call to the regional chain authority to describe how he was treated and demand an apology before an escalation to news coverage and NRA representatives attention becomes pertinent. Keen business men do not want attention on their business attacking ANYONE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Haw!-Haw!
    I suppose not.
    I don't know about that. I'll bet the trespass laws view the request of any genuine employee of the business as legitimate. I'll bet the trespass laws don't require the police to dilly-dally around looking up the business's written policy, calling the corporate office, or whatever. I'll bet the lowliest part-time clerk can ask the police to remove you (arrest).

    Now, the manager may get reprimanded later for violating policy by asking a gunner to leave, but that reprimand ain't going into the arresting officer's personnel file.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Wisconsin Statutes 943.13 Trespass to land refers to "owner or occupant."

    Wisconsin presumes trespass notice at 943.13(1m)(a) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    (a) Enters any enclosed, cultivated or undeveloped land of another, other than open land specified in par. (e) or (f), without the express or implied consent of the owner or occupant.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Wisconsin Statutes 943.13 Trespass to land refers to "owner or occupant."

    Wisconsin presumes trespass notice at 943.13(1m)(a) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    (a) Enters any enclosed, cultivated or undeveloped land of another, other than open land specified in par. (e) or (f), without the express or implied consent of the owner or occupant.
    A store gives implied permission by the owner. Thus an 'employee' has no right to deny or trespass.

    The 'occupant' is in reference to a private dwelling, I presume, since an 'occupant' of a store could be confused with a customer.

    ...in Wisconsin, anyway.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I don't know about that. I'll bet the trespass laws view the request of any genuine employee of the business as legitimate. I'll bet the trespass laws don't require the police to dilly-dally around looking up the business's written policy, calling the corporate office, or whatever. I'll bet the lowliest part-time clerk can ask the police to remove you (arrest).

    Now, the manager may get reprimanded later for violating policy by asking a gunner to leave, but that reprimand ain't going into the arresting officer's personnel file.
    Yeah you're probably correct as far as a legal issue. I was thinking along the lines of business policy giving that authority to the employee.
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    Interesting but.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Wisconsin Statutes 943.13 Trespass to land refers to "owner or occupant."

    Wisconsin presumes trespass notice at 943.13(1m)(a) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    (a) Enters any enclosed, cultivated or undeveloped land of another, other than open land specified in par. (e) or (f), without the express or implied consent of the owner or occupant.
    I understood the OP to be about a business premises not land.

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    Confused Me with Somebody Else?

    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Why would you (or anyone else) want an unposted business to post "No guns" signs? It just ruins things for everybody else. Don't encourage them to post!
    Good observation but has nothing to do with what I wrote.
    Last edited by apjonas; 04-26-2015 at 09:45 PM.

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    Could You..

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    A store gives implied permission by the owner. Thus an 'employee' has no right to deny or trespass.

    The 'occupant' is in reference to a private dwelling, I presume, since an 'occupant' of a store could be confused with a customer.

    ...in Wisconsin, anyway.
    Please explain your contention in the second sentence? Preferably with an authority cited. Even if it was meant only as an opinion.

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    I just checked my driver's license...

    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    The OP had this: "He advised her that her store was not posted, and open carry was legal."

    and this:"But the customer service rep he spoke with said the store must be posted if the manager doesn't want weapons carried."

    It seems that, at a minimum, posting was discussed by your friend and the customer service rep. If they are encouraged to post, they will post. Why even bring it up? So, yes it has "something to do with" what you wrote.
    I am apjonas. The OP is pkbites. Re-read this thread and try again.

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    My friend has done some legal things, which currently appear to be leaning to result heavily in his favor (and therefore ours). But it is not for me to comment on, at least not at this time. Though I wish I could!

    But knowing what I know it probably would be appropriate to close this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    I understood the OP to be about a business premises not land.
    Here defined as enclosed land. Wisconsin Stats has two broad categories of trespass, trespass to land and criminal trespass to dwellings.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    I absolutely hate to report this hearsay, but I can't convince my buddy to come on here and tell it himself.

    I'll post this exactly as he told it to me:

    Today my friend and I were going to hang out so he was on his way over. At about 1:00PM he stopped at the Speedway at 10306 W. Greenfield Avenue, West Allis, Wisconsin to get a soda. He was carrying a baby Glock both in a pocket holster and using Clip Draw. When he paid for his soda the manager "Carol" barked at him that next time she didn't want him coming in her store with his gun....
    Pay, then depart without comment. If the employee refuses to complete the transaction unless a response is given, depart w/o you soda. Go to one of their competitors...do not return.

    Pass the word that the business is anti-liberty, anti-citizen, and anti-gun.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    My friend has done some legal things, which currently appear to be leaning to result heavily in his favor (and therefore ours). But it is not for me to comment on, at least not at this time. Though I wish I could!

    But knowing what I know it probably would be appropriate to close this thread.
    What is your friend's name? I would like to research what kind of legal action, if any, your friend has taken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
    What is your friend's name? I would like to research what kind of legal action, if any, your friend has taken.
    It is not my place to comment on this any more. By his request I'm not putting any details online. If he wants to discuss it publicly he can come on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    It is not my place to comment on this any more. By his request I'm not putting any details online. If he wants to discuss it publicly he can come on here.
    That is best.

    Even if no legal action anticipated, the story/event is without the candor of first person comment - basically hearsay.

    No slight intended.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 04-27-2015 at 02:00 PM.
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