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Thread: Stargate SG-1's FN P90. Yes, it's real, and in use throughout the U.S. today.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Stargate SG-1's FN P90. Yes, it's real, and in use throughout the U.S. today.

    In 1991, FN Herstal in Belgium created the FN P90 in response to NATO requests for a replacement for 9×19mm Parabellum firearms. The P90 was designed as a compact but powerful firearm for vehicle crews, operators of crew-served weapons, support personnel, special forces and counter-terrorist groups.

    The FN 5.7×28mm is a small-caliber, high-velocity cartridge and exhibits an exceptionally flat trajectory. It has the ability to penetrate Kevlar protective vests—such as the NATO CRISAT vest—that will stop conventional pistol bullets. Fired from the P90, the SS190 is capable of penetrating the CRISAT vest at a range of 200 m (219 yd), or a Level IIIA Kevlar vest at the same range. However, sporting variants of the 5.7×28mm are classified by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) as not armor-piercing.

    SO, then... Will someone PLEASE explain to me why the ATF classifies a non-armor-piercing round like the 5.56 M855 as "armor-piercing" while FAILING to classify the armor-piercing 5.7×28mm as such?

    Oh, yeah... It's because many law enforcement agencies in the U.S. are already using this Stargate FN P90 weapon. Yes. It's the same one seen in Stargate SG-1.





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    Last edited by since9; 03-12-2015 at 05:25 AM.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Are you aware of how the ATF classifies pistol ammunition as 'armor piercing'?

    The SS190 is classified as 'armor piercing' due to the ratio of jacket weight to projectile weight.
    The SS195, SS196, SS197, SS198 and American Eagle 5728 are all classified as non 'armor piercing' by the ATF.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    SS109/XM855 are not classified as AP is my limited understanding. Ive heard some people say the steel tip reduces lead consumption but others said the steel tip helps the bullet maintain trajectory through light objects like windows or doors. However, any 556 through a 16-20" barrel would easily penetrate any level III vest inside 100 yards.

    Shooting an SS109/XM855 through a short pistol barreled weapon (like an AR pistol or FN P90) reduces the bullet velocity so much that it doesnt have any additional penetrating capabilities over a "regular" 556 though. Ive shot steel with my 7.5" barreled pistol and XM855s do nothing to steel at close range even. But if you pop them in your 16" gun, the steel tip pushes deeper than the lead core but not by much.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    FN P90 is Fugly, it's the Pontiac Aztec of the gun world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    SS109/XM855 are not classified as AP is my limited understanding. Ive heard some people say the steel tip reduces lead consumption but others said the steel tip helps the bullet maintain trajectory through light objects like windows or doors. However, any 556 through a 16-20" barrel would easily penetrate any level III vest inside 100 yards.

    Shooting an SS109/XM855 through a short pistol barreled weapon (like an AR pistol or FN P90) reduces the bullet velocity so much that it doesnt have any additional penetrating capabilities over a "regular" 556 though. Ive shot steel with my 7.5" barreled pistol and XM855s do nothing to steel at close range even. But if you pop them in your 16" gun, the steel tip pushes deeper than the lead core but not by much.
    My AR500 plates would like to have a word with you. Now if you meant IIIa it might be different, but level III is designed for non-AP rifle rounds.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    FN P90 is Fugly, it's the Pontiac Aztec of the gun world.
    Shhhh, the adults are talking about how something performs, not about how pretty the macaroni art work is.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Shhhh, the adults are talking about how something performs, not about how pretty the macaroni art work is.


    Just be glad Pontiac didn't design the FN P90, or it would be in the shop more than not.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    ...the SS190 is capable of penetrating the CRISAT vest at a range of 200 m (219 yd), or a Level IIIA Kevlar vest at the same range. However, sporting variants of the 5.7×28mm are classified by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) as not armor-piercing.

    SO, then... Will someone PLEASE explain to me why the ATF classifies a non-armor-piercing round like the 5.56 M855 as "armor-piercing" while FAILING to classify the armor-piercing 5.7×28mm as such?...
    You are getting confused from their lack of details.

    The AP rounds of 5.7x28mm are banned from importation and manufacture. What little is still on the market is extremely expensive.

    You are also talking about different kinds of armor and definitions of "armor-piercing" all in the same breath.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post


    Just be glad Pontiac didn't design the FN P90, or it would be in the shop more than not.
    It is quite possible that Fallschirmjäger may have liked the look of the Aztec while also not knowing anything about its eventual design/reliability issues. It is arguably the first crossover SUV after all.

    Though, it is important that the adults take time to actually look at the macaroni art work, lest the kids in the room, who like macaroni art work, and made the macaroni art work, start ignoring them because they have become irrelevant old dudes because they don't like macaroni art work.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It is quite possible that Fallschirmjäger may have liked the look of the Aztec while also not knowing anything about its eventual design/reliability issues. It is arguably the first crossover SUV after all.

    Though, it is important that the adults take time to actually look at the macaroni art work, lest the kids in the room, who like macaroni art work, and made the macaroni art work, start ignoring them because they have become irrelevant old dudes because they don't like macaroni art work.
    Sorry, I was never much impressed by the Pontiac Aztec.
    You seem a bit fixated on personal insults rather than a discussion of the cons/pros of the FN system. If it were otherwise I'd be happy to engage you as an adult, but alas, I'm much too old for the schoolyard.

    Just as an aside... the AMC Eagle predated the Pontiac Aztec by more than a decade. As did several European produced vehicles (having owned one in Germany a decade before the Aztec came on the scene)
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 03-18-2015 at 03:55 PM.

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    Regular Member Elm Creek Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    However, any 556 through a 16-20" barrel would easily penetrate any level III vest inside 100 yards.
    Any 5.56x45mm through a 16 to 20 inch barrel will NOT penetrate any Level III vest inside 100 yards. Almost any centerfire rifle cartridge will penetrate a Level III-A vest inside 100 yards. That's why they have Level III and Level IV rifle plates.
    Last edited by Elm Creek Smith; 03-18-2015 at 05:52 PM. Reason: FlyBoy276 pointed out an error.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elm Creek Smith View Post
    Almost any centerfire rifle cartridge will penetrate a Level III vest inside 100 yards. That's why they have rifle plates.
    Rifle plates are at least Level III. Level IIIa is designed to stop only pistol rounds.

    3 > 3a.

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    Regular Member Elm Creek Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyBoy276 View Post
    Rifle plates are at least Level III. Level IIIa is designed to stop only pistol rounds.

    3 > 3a.
    Mea culpa. NIJ standards for rifle plates are Level III and Level IV. I'll edit appropriately.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Sorry, I was never much impressed by the Pontiac Aztec.
    You seem a bit fixated on personal insults rather than a discussion of the cons/pros of the FN system. If it were otherwise I'd be happy to engage you as an adult, but alas, I'm much too old for the schoolyard.

    Just as an aside... the AMC Eagle predated the Pontiac Aztec by more than a decade. As did several European produced vehicles (having owned one in Germany a decade before the Aztec came on the scene)
    You injected infantile adult chides, not I. Reasonable is as reasonable does.

    BTW, the eagle was a station wagon.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Sorry, I was never much impressed by the Pontiac Aztec.
    You seem a bit fixated on personal insults rather than a discussion of the cons/pros of the FN system. If it were otherwise I'd be happy to engage you as an adult, but alas, I'm much too old for the schoolyard.

    Just as an aside... the AMC Eagle predated the Pontiac Aztec by more than a decade. As did several European produced vehicles (having owned one in Germany a decade before the Aztec came on the scene)
    OC For Me is correct, the AMC Eagle was a 4x4 wagon and was way nicer looking than the Aztec. Why buy an Eagle or an Aztec, when Subaru was making an all wheel drive station wagon when both of these models were being produced. The Subaru looked better and would not be in the repair shop as often if ever.

    To stay on topic, the FN P90 is still fugly. If one is killing Jaffa on an off world mission, then one should look good doing it and using a FN P90 will just make you look like a Geek. Would you rather drive an Aztec, or a 1967 corvette.

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    LOL Yep, he's from the PNW. I thought y'all called 'em Sues'baru's?
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    LOL Yep, he's from the PNW. I thought y'all called 'em Sues'baru's?
    tree hugger vehicles

    ipse
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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    LOL Yep, he's from the PNW. I thought y'all called 'em Sues'baru's?
    That only applies if you live west of the Cascade mountains along the I-5 corridor in Washington and Oregon.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    tree hugger vehicles

    ipse
    I also love trees. They can be made into houses, flooring, furniture, firewood, and the list goes on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    I also love trees. They can be made into houses, flooring, furniture, firewood, and the list goes on.
    Guns.

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