Stargate SG-1's FN P90. Yes, it's real, and in use throughout the U.S. today.

In 1991, FN Herstal in Belgium created the FN P90 in response to NATO requests for a replacement for 9×19mm Parabellum firearms. The P90 was designed as a compact but powerful firearm for vehicle crews, operators of crew-served weapons, support personnel, special forces and counter-terrorist groups.

The FN 5.7×28mm is a small-caliber, high-velocity cartridge and exhibits an exceptionally flat trajectory. It has the ability to penetrate Kevlar protective vests—such as the NATO CRISAT vest—that will stop conventional pistol bullets. Fired from the P90, the SS190 is capable of penetrating the CRISAT vest at a range of 200 m (219 yd), or a Level IIIA Kevlar vest at the same range. However, sporting variants of the 5.7×28mm are classified by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) as not armor-piercing.

SO, then... Will someone PLEASE explain to me why the ATF classifies a non-armor-piercing round like the 5.56 M855 as "armor-piercing" while FAILING to classify the armor-piercing 5.7×28mm as such?

Oh, yeah... It's because many law enforcement agencies in the U.S. are already using this Stargate FN P90 weapon. Yes. It's the same one seen in Stargate SG-1.

Are you aware of how the ATF classifies pistol ammunition as 'armor piercing'?

The SS190 is classified as 'armor piercing' due to the ratio of jacket weight to projectile weight.
The SS195, SS196, SS197, SS198 and American Eagle 5728 are all classified as non 'armor piercing' by the ATF.

SS109/XM855 are not classified as AP is my limited understanding. Ive heard some people say the steel tip reduces lead consumption but others said the steel tip helps the bullet maintain trajectory through light objects like windows or doors. However, any 556 through a 16-20" barrel would easily penetrate any level III vest inside 100 yards.

Shooting an SS109/XM855 through a short pistol barreled weapon (like an AR pistol or FN P90) reduces the bullet velocity so much that it doesnt have any additional penetrating capabilities over a "regular" 556 though. Ive shot steel with my 7.5" barreled pistol and XM855s do nothing to steel at close range even. But if you pop them in your 16" gun, the steel tip pushes deeper than the lead core but not by much.

FN P90 is Fugly, it's the Pontiac Aztec of the gun world.

Kopis said:

SS109/XM855 are not classified as AP is my limited understanding. Ive heard some people say the steel tip reduces lead consumption but others said the steel tip helps the bullet maintain trajectory through light objects like windows or doors. However, any 556 through a 16-20" barrel would easily penetrate any level III vest inside 100 yards.

Shooting an SS109/XM855 through a short pistol barreled weapon (like an AR pistol or FN P90) reduces the bullet velocity so much that it doesnt have any additional penetrating capabilities over a "regular" 556 though. Ive shot steel with my 7.5" barreled pistol and XM855s do nothing to steel at close range even. But if you pop them in your 16" gun, the steel tip pushes deeper than the lead core but not by much.

Click to expand...

My AR500 plates would like to have a word with you. Now if you meant IIIa it might be different, but level III is designed for non-AP rifle rounds.

OC Freedom said:

FN P90 is Fugly, it's the Pontiac Aztec of the gun world.

Click to expand...

Shhhh, the adults are talking about how something performs, not about how pretty the macaroni art work is.

Fallschirmjäger said:

Shhhh, the adults are talking about how something performs, not about how pretty the macaroni art work is.

Click to expand...

:lol:

Just be glad Pontiac didn't design the FN P90, or it would be in the shop more than not.

since9 said:

...the SS190 is capable of penetrating the CRISAT vest at a range of 200 m (219 yd), or a Level IIIA Kevlar vest at the same range. However, sporting variants of the 5.7×28mm are classified by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) as not armor-piercing.

SO, then... Will someone PLEASE explain to me why the ATF classifies a non-armor-piercing round like the 5.56 M855 as "armor-piercing" while FAILING to classify the armor-piercing 5.7×28mm as such?...

Click to expand...

You are getting confused from their lack of details.

The AP rounds of 5.7x28mm are banned from importation and manufacture. What little is still on the market is extremely expensive.

You are also talking about different kinds of armor and definitions of "armor-piercing" all in the same breath.

Another
Troglodyte
Faction

OC Freedom said:

:lol:

Just be glad Pontiac didn't design the FN P90, or it would be in the shop more than not.

Click to expand...

It is quite possible that Fallschirmjäger may have liked the look of the Aztec while also not knowing anything about its eventual design/reliability issues. It is arguably the first crossover SUV after all.

Though, it is important that the adults take time to actually look at the macaroni art work, lest the kids in the room, who like macaroni art work, and made the macaroni art work, start ignoring them because they have become irrelevant old dudes because they don't like macaroni art work.

OC for ME said:

It is quite possible that Fallschirmjäger may have liked the look of the Aztec while also not knowing anything about its eventual design/reliability issues. It is arguably the first crossover SUV after all.

Though, it is important that the adults take time to actually look at the macaroni art work, lest the kids in the room, who like macaroni art work, and made the macaroni art work, start ignoring them because they have become irrelevant old dudes because they don't like macaroni art work.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I was never much impressed by the Pontiac Aztec.
You seem a bit fixated on personal insults rather than a discussion of the cons/pros of the FN system. If it were otherwise I'd be happy to engage you as an adult, but alas, I'm much too old for the schoolyard.

Just as an aside... the AMC Eagle predated the Pontiac Aztec by more than a decade. As did several European produced vehicles (having owned one in Germany a decade before the Aztec came on the scene)

Kopis said:

However, any 556 through a 16-20" barrel would easily penetrate any level III vest inside 100 yards.

Click to expand...

Any 5.56x45mm through a 16 to 20 inch barrel will NOT penetrate any Level III vest inside 100 yards. Almost any centerfire rifle cartridge will penetrate a Level III-A vest inside 100 yards. That's why they have Level III and Level IV rifle plates.

Elm Creek Smith said:

Almost any centerfire rifle cartridge will penetrate a Level III vest inside 100 yards. That's why they have rifle plates.

Click to expand...

Rifle plates are at least Level III. Level IIIa is designed to stop only pistol rounds.

3 > 3a.

FlyBoy276 said:

Rifle plates are at least Level III. Level IIIa is designed to stop only pistol rounds.

3 > 3a.

Click to expand...

Mea culpa. NIJ standards for rifle plates are Level III and Level IV. I'll edit appropriately.

Fallschirmjäger said:

Sorry, I was never much impressed by the Pontiac Aztec.
You seem a bit fixated on personal insults rather than a discussion of the cons/pros of the FN system. If it were otherwise I'd be happy to engage you as an adult, but alas, I'm much too old for the schoolyard.

Just as an aside... the AMC Eagle predated the Pontiac Aztec by more than a decade. As did several European produced vehicles (having owned one in Germany a decade before the Aztec came on the scene)

Click to expand...

You injected infantile adult chides, not I. Reasonable is as reasonable does.

BTW, the eagle was a station wagon.

Fallschirmjäger said:

Sorry, I was never much impressed by the Pontiac Aztec.
You seem a bit fixated on personal insults rather than a discussion of the cons/pros of the FN system. If it were otherwise I'd be happy to engage you as an adult, but alas, I'm much too old for the schoolyard.

Just as an aside... the AMC Eagle predated the Pontiac Aztec by more than a decade. As did several European produced vehicles (having owned one in Germany a decade before the Aztec came on the scene)

Click to expand...

OC For Me is correct, the AMC Eagle was a 4x4 wagon and was way nicer looking than the Aztec. Why buy an Eagle or an Aztec, when Subaru was making an all wheel drive station wagon when both of these models were being produced. The Subaru looked better and would not be in the repair shop as often if ever.

To stay on topic, the FN P90 is still fugly. If one is killing Jaffa on an off world mission, then one should look good doing it and using a FN P90 will just make you look like a Geek. Would you rather drive an Aztec, or a 1967 corvette.

Nightmare said:

LOL Yep, he's from the PNW. I thought y'all called 'em Sues'baru's?

Click to expand...

tree hugger vehicles

ipse

Nightmare said:

LOL Yep, he's from the PNW. I thought y'all called 'em Sues'baru's?

Click to expand...

That only applies if you live west of the Cascade mountains along the I-5 corridor in Washington and Oregon.

solus said:

tree hugger vehicles

ipse

Click to expand...

I also love trees. They can be made into houses, flooring, furniture, firewood, and the list goes on.

OC Freedom said:

I also love trees. They can be made into houses, flooring, furniture, firewood, and the list goes on.

Click to expand...

Guns.

View attachment 12432