Mas Ayoob on OC - "Well, sorta maybe OK if ..."

utbagpiper said:

Why would anyone who doesn't think much of Mr. Ayoob want to have a "discussion" with him?

And why would Mr. Ayoob want to engage in such a discussion when the person requesting it isn't interested in reading anything beyond sound bite bumper stickers anyway? Much less with someone who has demonstrated a greater desire to find or imagine differences than to acknowledge agreements?

It appears Mr. Ayoob is less enthusiastic about OCing for political or educational reasons than most here. But he seems to be headed the right direction and has now publicly opposed laws against OC. I would not nominate him for OC team captain. Neither do I see any value in pillaring him for heresy.

Charles

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You might ask yourself the same questions? ehhhhh.

utbagpiper said:

Why would anyone who doesn't think much of Mr. Ayoob want to have a "discussion" with him?

And why would Mr. Ayoob want to engage in such a discussion when the person requesting it isn't interested in reading anything beyond sound bite bumper stickers anyway? Much less with someone who has demonstrated a greater desire to find or imagine differences than to acknowledge agreements?

It appears Mr. Ayoob is less enthusiastic about OCing for political or educational reasons than most here. But he seems to be headed the right direction and has now publicly opposed laws against OC. I would not nominate him for OC team captain. Neither do I see any value in pillaring him for heresy.

Charles

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and what is the purpose of your first couple paragraphs except to brow beat another member with a negative comments?

seems to me the majority of your last paragraph summed up your sentiment quite nicely so why make your communique's message confusing to the reader, unless you intended to personally put down another forum member and then make your point about Mr Ayoob.

and that Charles, is probably why Mr. Ayoob probably won't come out to say hello on this forum.

ipse

ps: there are a lot of ppl i am not a fan of charles yet would love to respectfully chat with in a non-adversarial environment over a cup of tea to obtain their perspective of the subject they hold dear.
how else can i learn and grow. understand, i still might walk away not being a fan, but at least they took the time and we shared our perspective(s) w/o the background noise and filters that cloud our understandings as we walk through life.

Nightmare said:

Y'all do know that life does have an ignore function?

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sure do sug, but if i used that function i would miss soooooo many of your interesting posts....now wouldn't I?

y'al be good, ya hear!

ipse

solus said:

and what is the purpose of your first couple paragraphs except to brow beat another member with a negative comments?

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I think the term used by a few of the anarchists around here is "to educate", rather than brow beat.

solus said:

ps: there are a lot of ppl i am not a fan of charles yet would love to respectfully chat with in a non-adversarial environment over a cup of tea to obtain their perspective of the subject they hold dear.
how else can i learn and grow. understand, i still might walk away not being a fan, but at least they took the time and we shared our perspective(s) w/o the background noise and filters that cloud our understandings as we walk through life.

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I agree with you and share your sentiment. But we have several members of this forum who demonstrably don't share that philosophy. Some would rather pummel for any minor disagreement and to use terms like statist, apologist, and jingoism, than to gain good faith understanding, or to simply agree to disagree on the 1% fringe issues.

Were you to have put out a public invitation for Mr. Ayoob to come visit I would see it as a good faith request to actually discuss. When some others do so it comes across as them simply wanting a chance to beat someone up rather than to discuss and gain mutual understanding.

Charles

utbagpiper said:

I think the term used by a few of the anarchists around here is "to educate", rather than brow beat.



I agree with you and share your sentiment. But we have several members of this forum who demonstrably don't share that philosophy. Some would rather pummel for any minor disagreement and to use terms like statist, apologist, and jingoism, than to gain good faith understanding, or to simply agree to disagree on the 1% fringe issues.

Were you to have put out a public invitation for Mr. Ayoob to come visit I would see it as a good faith request to actually discuss. When some others do so it comes across as them simply wanting a chance to beat someone up rather than to discuss and gain mutual understanding.

Charles

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As shown by the post Solus called you out for...:lol:

... When an otherwise obviously smart and articulate poster says the officer confronting such a person with hand on service pistol is the one being provocative, I can only say “Wow…just…wow.”

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Interesting premise this has right here. I wonder if Mr. Ayoob has ever heard of cops who approach LG OCers with extended hand vs. hand on pistol...or is that just a jurisdictional thing.

Depending on the jurisdiction, the mood of the court, and the mood of the prosecution, some of the cards on the table may include “disturbing the peace,” “trespass after warning,” and “going armed to the terror of the public.”...

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So, given the realities of modern LE, this is a reality, yet appellate courts generally take a dim view of local cops, prosecutors, and judges dishing out punishment for lawful behavior...again, this could very well be a jurisdictional thing.

Mr. Ayoob ought to stick to what he knows best, how to use a handgun properly vs. when to use one (OC vs. CC) "properly."

Is Mr. Ayoob OC friendly? Or, just a pragmatist and acknowledging that OC is just as "legal" as CC and knocking OCers does not help "the cause" either.

OC4ME...i have my money on the latter verse former...

ipse

I don’t think we win any friends for gun owners’ civil rights by flaunting deadly weapons in the face of a general public conditioned to fear guns and their owners by generations of anti-gun media and political prejudice.

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So Ayoob's recommendation is to give in to the same anti-gun media and political prejudice.

Nice.

I don’t think we win any friends for gun owners’ civil rights by flaunting deadly weapons in the face of a general public conditioned to fear guns and their owners by generations of anti-gun media and political prejudice.

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griffin said:

So Ayoob's recommendation is to give in to the same anti-gun media and political prejudice.

Nice.

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Normalizing is not flaunting - it is however desensitizing.

while it may sound juvenile, i do not support anyone who utilizes comic sans or papyrus typefaces in their websites.

Grapeshot said:

Normalizing is not flaunting - it is however desensitizing.

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Funny how the OC Fudds use pejorative words for certain gun owners just like the antigunners do.

FTG-05 said:

Funny how the OC Fudds use pejorative words for certain gun owners just like the antigunners do.

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Sadly, too many gun owners of all stripes are prone to use pejorative terms for other gun owners who don't agree with them 100%.

Fudds
Flaunting
Wild West
Hidden guns
P4P


We don't need gun-grabbers, anti-gunners, gun haters, nor hoplophobes to make our life difficult. We've got half a dozen different wings of the gun community that are all quite happy to attack each other over the most minor of disagreements.

The Shias and Sunnis are looking at US gun owners and thinking, "I'm glad Islam isn't that divided."

Charles

utbagpiper said:

Sadly, too many gun owners of all stripes are prone to use pejorative terms for other gun owners who don't agree with them 100%.

Fudds
Flaunting
Wild West
Hidden guns
P4P


We don't need gun-grabbers, anti-gunners, gun haters, nor hoplophobes to make our life difficult. We've got half a dozen different wings of the gun community that are all quite happy to attack each other over the most minor of disagreements.

The Shias and Sunnis are looking at US gun owners and thinking, "I'm glad Islam isn't that divided."

Charles

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I will not disagree with the above, other than to note that some OCers (Shias?) are not shooting some CCers (Sunnis?). Poor analogy in my view. YMMV

I have many FUDDS in my family, most of them in fact, a few even admit to this.

I am challenged, every year, as to why I OC on my farm (in SC) during the Turkey Day holiday by those that come over to enjoy the feast I put on. I continue to OC and they continue to come over and challenge...it is free food and adult beverages after all, I guess. They are always welcome to come and I invite them every year knowing that I will be challenged. I will not let differences of opinion create rifts amongst my kin if I can avoid it. The yearly "discussions" are a recurring educational endeavor as far as i am concerned.

It amazes me that these folks, who hunt my land, let their kids run around in the woods where we have wild boar/feral hogs, snakes, gators (in the wet part of the year), and deer (that are not always cute little Bambis that run away at first sight...especially during the rut). There are confirmed rumors that black bear from NC are working their way down to Paradise and that cougars are being reported to be roaming the Up State. My 9 y/o got treed by a 300 feral hog and it took 4 12GA shots (slugs) to drop that critter.

OC for ME said:

It amazes me that these folks, who hunt my land, let their kids run around in the woods where we have wild boar/feral hogs, snakes, gators (in the wet part of the year), and deer (that are not always cute little Bambis that run away at first sight...especially during the rut). There are confirmed rumors that black bear from NC are working their way down to Paradise and that cougars are being reported to be roaming the Up State. My 9 y/o got treed by a 300 feral hog and it took 4 12GA shots (slugs) to drop that critter.

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because a majority of people live in the world where "it'll never happen to me." unless it pertains to lottery tickets.

mikeyb said:

because a majority of people live in the world where "it'll never happen to me." unless it pertains to lottery tickets.

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+1

mikeyb said:

while it may sound juvenile, i do not support anyone who utilizes comic sans or papyrus typefaces in their websites.

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Honestly, this could be one of the more worthy considerations in this thread. +1

But on the other hand, I don’t think we win any friends for gun owners’ civil rights by flaunting deadly weapons in the face of a general public conditioned to fear guns and their owners by generations of anti-gun media and political prejudice."

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Been OC'ing for years and have yet to see mothers grab their babies and run screaming, nor have SWAT teams arrived via helicopter rapelling, nor have I, as of yet, witnessed people pointing and shaking in fear at me.

His fear of their fear is unjustifiable by any reasonable measure of observation.

Am I the only one here who OC's in the summer, simply because I'm too lazy to conceal or attempting to do so would be ridiculous with only a t-shirt? :dude:

Conversely, there are many here who OC normally, but wind up concealing often in the winter rather than do weird things with coats.

I'm in the CC in winter or when wearing a Panama Jax/Hawaiian style shirt and OC when in a t-shirt category. Generally, when legal, my method of carry is dictated by personal convenience (especially now that MO has OC preemption over local anti-OC ordinances if you have a CC). Except under specific circumstances, I carry for defense not politics.