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Thread: Permit to Purchase

  1. #1
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    Permit to Purchase

    Hello all,
    I currently live in Virginia but it looks like we may be moving to North Carolina. I have been reading (online) the gun laws of NC and saw the requirement to get a permit to purchase a pistol. However, I haven't been able to find anything about the pistols that I already own. Would I have to get a permit to continue to "legally" own them? I didn't see anything about "registration". Maybe I'm just missing it, I hope not, but can anyone enlighten me about that. I am pretty used to Virginia law but not so much on North Carolina law. I do have a Virginia permit to carry concealed but I guess I'd have to get a NC permit after moving there.

    I'm still reading the NC gun laws and doing what research I can but any help would be appreciated. Oh, by the way, if we do move down there it would be somewhere near the Durham area, if that matters.

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    roN

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    Firearms you already own are treated just like a bicycle you already own. There is no permit to own/possess/OC them, and no customs stamps or taxes to "import" them to NC. If you do move, notify your CC-permit issuing agency (VaSP?) and maybe get a VA non-resident permit. You can carry CC here with that; you just can't use it to purchase guns.

    Come on down!

    Check the OC pamphlet sticky at the top of the NC sub-forum. Check other new guy threads for the reading material Solus will give you. Ask about anything, anytime and some one will answer.
    Last edited by bc.cruiser; 03-13-2015 at 06:41 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Bring your guns and come on down. If you can legally own guns (obviously you can) there is nothing you need to do.

    NC law also prevents any county or municipality of creating special laws, meaning the laws apply evenly across the state, and the "gun registration" which existed only in Durham county has been eliminated by the state legislature.

    Once here, then you will need a PPP or a CHP to purchase a handgun.

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    I'm waiting for the day we get some legislation pushed through that gets rid of the PPP backdoor gun registration, because let's face it that is what it is. Until then, it's permission slips to purchase. Like previous posters said though if you already guns then you are good to go.
    Last edited by jvilleoc; 03-14-2015 at 03:37 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvilleoc View Post
    I'm waiting for the day we get some legislation pushed through that gets rid of the PPP backdoor gun registration, because let's face it that is what it is. Until then, it's permission slips.
    please allow me to quantify as well as clarify something of an apparent misrepresentation you are suffering from:

    1a. NC statutory requirements as outlined in 52A, 14-402 - 14-404, for PPPs or use of the CHP to purchase firearms does not constitute and are not 'gun registration' activities, either front, sideways, backwards, or any which way shape or form or door.

    What they do qualify for is to allow FFLs to dispense with the FBI's NICS background check for NC citizens who purchase firearms from the federally licensed dealer. By statute, any private citizen firearm sale is supposed to include the PPP or CHP being shown to the seller. I can not nor care to speculate if NC citizens adhere to these provisions of firearm statute. as it is not within my purview to care!

    1b. NC Statutory requirements as outlined by 14-405 & 14-406, specifically delineate the NC's county sheriffs use of the citizen's confidential information as well as the FFL dealer's use of the PPP or CHP data.

    JVILLEOC, the previous background information was provided so you could understand: NC citizens must obtain the PPP & CHP PRIOR to being able to getting a firearm from the dealer or NC private citizen so there is no firearm even associated with the sheriff's records, therefore - NO GUN REGISTRATION is facilitated by the county's highest peace officer or their office in the issuance of the PPP or CHP.

    now to address your permission slip comment:
    2a. in 1a, I mentioned NC's use of the PPP and CHP negate the FFL's requirement to call the FBI's NICS to have that entity accomplish a 'background' check on a NC citizen who is purchasing a firearm. this citizen background check is mandated by federal statutes, which if you are truly interested in a cite you can research yourself, but anyway, any US citizen within this country, if purchasing a firearm from a FFL, the FFL must, with the exception of NC (couple of other states if mem serves), call FBI's NICS and obtain approval to deliver the firearm to the FFL's customer. therefore, NC's PPP & CHP is not a permission slip in any shape or form but rather a "time saving" (said w/straight face) convenience for NC citizens to purchase firearms from FFLs.

    2b. besides needing the CHP to CC within tarheel state ~ a privilege card, i am sure from your perspective and as you stated; however, there are some NC citizens get their CHP to facilitate purchase firearms w/o having to carry a folded up PPP in their pockets or purses.so they might expeditiously purchase a firearm they have fallen in love with while window shopping at a gunshop, etc.

    I hope this expels any of the misinformation you were laboring under about NC's PPP/CHP uses.

    if you wish to get rid of these jim crow pieces of legislation i highly recommend you start trying to change the 100+ strong NC county sheriff's association's opinion of their need for these NC statutes. remember tho, if you do succeed, you might not like what legislature replaces the statutes with ~ just say'g...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Durham's registration

    I was somewhat, kinda, sorta, aware that Durham "registered" guns. Our son lives in Durham and I once called the sheriff's office there and chatted with a deputy about pistols and registering them and etc. I know, I know, speaking to the cops is not a reliable way to get info. Actually, I was as interested in his mind set and attitude as I was about the requirements of the law. Just feeling him out. That was a few years ago so I guess the NC legislature solved that problem after I spoke with the deputy. If it is not too much trouble, I would appreciate it if someone would point me to the section of the code that eliminated Durham's registration scheme.

    Additionally, I am pleased to find that North Carolina has statewide preemption of local ordinances. That's a very good thing I believe.

    What's the general atmosphere there as far as open carry goes? Any hassles? Any localities that give open carriers a hard time?

    Thanks for all the good info so far.

    cheers,

    roN

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    Hey Ron welcome to NC. you will find the two states have very similar laws. VA has some that NC don't but also there are things in NC that are not in VA. I have found NC doesn't notice carry any more then they do in VA. the only people I have ever had to complain are usually from another state

    What part of NC are you moving to?? we might have info on get together. BTW you no longer have to register in Durham

    welcome to the forum JVILLEOC, check on some of the get togethers, too.
    I will have to agree with SOLOS. The SHETY PPP does not have anything to do with registration. since the SOB PPP has nothing to do with the gun. it is just for the Sheriff, if he don't like your family or you are the wrong color, or if he just wants to be a dyck. it is also a money generator
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  8. #8
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6L6GC View Post
    I was somewhat, kinda, sorta, aware that Durham "registered" guns. Our son lives in Durham and I once called the sheriff's office there and chatted with a deputy about pistols and registering them and etc. I know, I know, speaking to the cops is not a reliable way to get info. Actually, I was as interested in his mind set and attitude as I was about the requirements of the law. Just feeling him out. That was a few years ago so I guess the NC legislature solved that problem after I spoke with the deputy. If it is not too much trouble, I would appreciate it if someone would point me to the section of the code that eliminated Durham's registration scheme.
    Additionally, I am pleased to find that North Carolina has statewide preemption of local ordinances. That's a very good thing I believe.
    What's the general atmosphere there as far as open carry goes? Any hassles? Any localities that give open carriers a hard time?
    Thanks for all the good info so far.
    cheers, roN
    ron, 1) folk try not to query the local LEs for guidance as there are some who are not quite up to speed on the actual wording of the NC statutes, coupled with the fact LEs are not accountable in judicial proceedings on the advice they provide to citizen's query(ies)!!

    2) durham...the cite you are seeking has been discussed in relative depth out here and i am sure if you search you will find it i know and trust it is not germane to my OC'g.

    3) please be careful as your perception of preemption is misplace in some locales as municipals have tried and in some cases succeeded to squeeze in their biases regarding CC'g by their definition(s) their definition of 'recreation' locales. however, for the most part, it is 'eh who cares'.

    please remember while i might look like a barrister (suave, deboner, and gentlemanly) i lack the education or the inclination to ascribe to that position...so take the above information w/a beer or two or as imbibed this evening...lovely sangria!!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 03-14-2015 at 07:35 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  9. #9
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvilleoc View Post
    I'm waiting for the day we get some legislation pushed through that gets rid of the PPP backdoor gun registration, because let's face it that is what it is. Until then, it's permission slips to purchase. Like previous posters said though if you already guns then you are good to go.
    They tried that with HB937 in 2013, but the Sheriff's Assoc. had a fit. And given the power of the office of the Sheriff in NC (why many are called the "high sheriff") it might have killed the whole bill.

    In many counties it's not a big deal, some sheriff's like to play games with it. In many counties they have upgraded to where PPP applications can be submitted online. Saw a comment on a different forum where it took only a couple of hours before the PPP was granted.

    But then there is the "gold card" for PPP's, the CHP, as many as you can afford, and no red flags from buying multiple guns on the same day (yes, I did that, didn't mean to, but it happens )

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    2) durham...the cite you are seeking has been discussed in relative depth out here and i am sure if you search you will find it i know and trust it is not germane to my OC'g.

    ipse
    NC SB226/S.L. 2014-11 effective 19 June 2014 was a "local" bill which did not need governor's signature. It repealed the 1935 Durham county Firearm Act, which required gun registration. Durham was the only county which had registration. Now all 100 counties are clear.

    As Solus said, it was not germane to OC.

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    woah

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    please allow me to quantify as well as clarify something of an apparent misrepresentation you are suffering from:

    1a. NC statutory requirements as outlined in 52A, 14-402 - 14-404, for PPPs or use of the CHP to purchase firearms does not constitute and are not 'gun registration' activities, either front, sideways, backwards, or any which way shape or form or door.

    What they do qualify for is to allow FFLs to dispense with the FBI's NICS background check for NC citizens who purchase firearms from the federally licensed dealer. By statute, any private citizen firearm sale is supposed to include the PPP or CHP being shown to the seller. I can not nor care to speculate if NC citizens adhere to these provisions of firearm statute. as it is not within my purview to care!

    1b. NC Statutory requirements as outlined by 14-405 & 14-406, specifically delineate the NC's county sheriffs use of the citizen's confidential information as well as the FFL dealer's use of the PPP or CHP data.

    JVILLEOC, the previous background information was provided so you could understand: NC citizens must obtain the PPP & CHP PRIOR to being able to getting a firearm from the dealer or NC private citizen so there is no firearm even associated with the sheriff's records, therefore - NO GUN REGISTRATION is facilitated by the county's highest peace officer or their office in the issuance of the PPP or CHP.

    now to address your permission slip comment:
    2a. in 1a, I mentioned NC's use of the PPP and CHP negate the FFL's requirement to call the FBI's NICS to have that entity accomplish a 'background' check on a NC citizen who is purchasing a firearm. this citizen background check is mandated by federal statutes, which if you are truly interested in a cite you can research yourself, but anyway, any US citizen within this country, if purchasing a firearm from a FFL, the FFL must, with the exception of NC (couple of other states if mem serves), call FBI's NICS and obtain approval to deliver the firearm to the FFL's customer. therefore, NC's PPP & CHP is not a permission slip in any shape or form but rather a "time saving" (said w/straight face) convenience for NC citizens to purchase firearms from FFLs.

    2b. besides needing the CHP to CC within tarheel state ~ a privilege card, i am sure from your perspective and as you stated; however, there are some NC citizens get their CHP to facilitate purchase firearms w/o having to carry a folded up PPP in their pockets or purses.so they might expeditiously purchase a firearm they have fallen in love with while window shopping at a gunshop, etc.

    I hope this expels any of the misinformation you were laboring under about NC's PPP/CHP uses.

    if you wish to get rid of these jim crow pieces of legislation i highly recommend you start trying to change the 100+ strong NC county sheriff's association's opinion of their need for these NC statutes. remember tho, if you do succeed, you might not like what legislature replaces the statutes with ~ just say'g...

    ipse
    I understand that the law says that it is not registration but the fact is if you purchase a firearm using your PPP from an ffl they are supposed to keep it forever. Now, while this in and of itself is not registration, your information is forever tied to that firearm and it is a simple matter for the powers that be to retrieve that information. So while it is not registration in so many words the result is similar.

    Agree to disagree on my end. Chill out, have a brew or something and unwind. Life is a game, the only cheat code is money and I don't care who you are, nobody gets out alive. Peace.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvilleoc View Post
    I understand that the law says that it is not registration but the fact is if you purchase a firearm using your PPP from an ffl they are supposed to keep it forever. Now, while this in and of itself is not registration, your information is forever tied to that firearm and it is a simple matter for the powers that be to retrieve that information. So while it is not registration in so many words the result is similar.

    Agree to disagree on my end. Chill out, have a brew or something and unwind. Life is a game, the only cheat code is money and I don't care who you are, nobody gets out alive. Peace.
    uh, and your incorrect perception of the ATF Form 4473 and the form's retention period, here is 'quickie' semi-reliable cite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473 to ponder while sipping your brew which I am positive will assist you gain clarity about the misconceptions you been laboring under regarding 'registration'.

    finally, please reread my post regarding PPPs & NC citizens privately selling firearms and reconsider your comments above!

    while your opinion is of course most important, but spreading misinformation w/flawed logic does a significant mis-service to the forum's readership.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    NC SB226/S.L. 2014-11 effective 19 June 2014 was a "local" bill which did not need governor's signature. It repealed the 1935 Durham county Firearm Act, which required gun registration. Durham was the only county which had registration. Now all 100 counties are clear.

    As Solus said, it was not germane to OC.
    tks, BC...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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