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Thread: UNLOADED open carry map needed

  1. #1
    Regular Member repeal1968gca's Avatar
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    Lightbulb UNLOADED unlicensed open carry map needed

    Now that Texas is taking the baby step in the right direction (finally), we notice that only those with the government permission slip will be able to open carry in TX. For some time I've noticed the need here for an unloaded open carry map. The current maps on opencarry.org show open carry legality in general and whether a license is required but there is an open carry aspect that has been known for some time, but which there's no map here for: unloaded open carry, which is always a non licensed thing. For those of us who find getting an expensive government permission slip offensive, but who still want to specifically carry openly, a map would be helpful. Obviously commiefornia USED to be "green" in this regard, and Texas still is not.

    Obviously the licensed open carry states (14 counting Texas) are where unloaded open carry needs to be known for travelers. Unloaded open carry without a permit (UOCWOP) won't be legal in Texas, but it's legal in Utah.

    Without a doubt, I wish all 50 states merely honored the constitution and our God given rights and were all ACWOP states (all carry without permit).

    Here's the opencarry.org maps which deal with 3 out of the 4 most important criteria (i.e. yes to open carry, no to open carry, or licensed open carry, but not unloaded open carry) http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103

    I made a map of what I want, and I think it's accurate (although I'm not sure about 13 of the states when it comes to unloaded open carry, specifically: HI, ND, OK, MN, IA, IN*, TN, GA, MA, CT, RI, NJ, MD):

    *In process of confirming
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    Last edited by repeal1968gca; 03-17-2015 at 06:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Spam?

    Ca was the only state with unloaded open carry, which was banned back in 10/10/2011, and they had 12031 an 'e'(mpty) check deemed to be an inspection prior to that, generally used if there was not an empty mag well, AFAIK.

    Who is dis guy (OP)?
    Last edited by Maverick9; 03-17-2015 at 05:36 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member repeal1968gca's Avatar
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    Ca was the only state with unloaded open carry
    Not true. My state of Utah allows unlicensed unloaded open carry right now. Every state that allows unlicensed LOADED open carry, by definition, would also allow unlicensed unloaded open carry (but obviously there would be no reason to carry unloaded in a state that allowed loaded carry).

    The definitions of "unloaded" can change, but in Utah, "unloaded" only means one not in the chamber. I would expect the definition of unloaded to change from state to state, but that's not the issue here. I only want one more map added to the list of opencarry.org maps, so one can quickly see where it's ok to carry unloaded without getting a government permission slip. I wish such a map wasn't necessary but we have so many states that demand a permit to open carry loaded (14 to be exact, and Texas will make it 15 any day now, despite legalizing open carry upon the governor's signature).
    Last edited by repeal1968gca; 03-17-2015 at 06:44 PM.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran ATM's Avatar
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    Indiana requires a license to carry a handgun. It should be red on your map.

    Loaded/unloaded, concealed/open have no bearing on the matter.



    ETA: http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2.../chapters/002/
    Last edited by ATM; 03-17-2015 at 06:47 PM. Reason: link provided as requested

  5. #5
    Regular Member repeal1968gca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATM View Post
    Indiana requires a license to carry a handgun. It should be red on your map.

    Loaded/unloaded, concealed/open have no bearing on the matter.

    Thank you. I will fix. Link please.

  6. #6
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    UN-loaded OC?

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    Yep, I did that was I was 7 or 8 years old (without the orange tips)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40sc View Post
    UN-loaded OC?
    ...
    Yep, I did that was I was 7 or 8 years old (without the orange tips)
    I understand the Israeli Defense Forces do it today.

    Depending on the jurisdiction, "unloaded" can mean simply "no round in the chamber".
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  8. #8
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    I understand the Israeli Defense Forces do it today.
    And I suspect they patrol in pairs or larger numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Depending on the jurisdiction, "unloaded" can mean simply "no round in the chamber".
    NC law does not differentiate between loaded and unloaded.
    Last edited by XD40sc; 03-17-2015 at 10:34 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by repeal1968gca View Post
    Not true. My state of Utah allows unlicensed unloaded open carry right now.
    Cite, please?

    Every state that allows unlicensed LOADED open carry, by definition, would also allow unlicensed unloaded open carry (but obviously there would be no reason to carry unloaded in a state that allowed loaded carry).
    Pointless question IMO.

    And, there is no 'allow'. It's the 2A. If it's not prohibited, then default to the 2A. Few, if any states where it's not prohibited have anything to say in their statutes.

    If questions, use USAcarry.com or handgunlaw.us.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 03-17-2015 at 11:08 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Cite, please?
    URS 76-10-502 defines when a gun is deemed loaded:

    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
    ...
    URS 76-10-505 prohibits the possession of "loaded" gun in most public locations:

    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    ....
    (b) on a public street; or
    URS 76-10-504 prohibits the possession of concealed weapons under many circumstances.

    Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2), (3), and (4), a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, including an unloaded firearm on his or her person [various exemptions deleted for brevity] is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
    (2) A person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a loaded firearm in violation of Subsection (1) is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
    There is no law banning the non-concealed possession of a firearm, nor banning possession of an "unloaded" firearm.

    Hence, Utah law permits, allows, or does not prohibit (for those who would make a man an offender for a word) OC of an "unloaded" firearm without needing a permit to carry.

    Citation provided.

    Now, would you be so good as to explain why you wanted a citation on a Utah specific law?

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40sc View Post
    And I suspect they patrol in pairs or larger numbers.
    I believe they carry this way even when alone, not patrolling. I understand one of their favored handguns is the Glock and lacking an external safety, it is considered safer to carry an empty chamber. They train to draw and rack the slide.

    Obviously, this leaves one vulnerable in the case where the weak hand is not available to rack the slide. But it reduces the odds of an ND.

    I know several folks who choose to carry an empty chamber even when not legally required to do so. Obviously that is a minority position. That the IDF carry that way lends some evidence to the notion that minority or not, it is not wholly unreasonable to do, nor does it render the gun worthless in most cases.

    I personally own an old Tokerev pistol that is neither drop safe nor is it designed to safely lower the hammer on a live round. When I choose to carry it, it is carried empty chamber.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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