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Do you need a retention holster to open carry safely?

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
So what's your take, guys?

Me:
0. Mexican carry, shove it in the pants, no belt = if that floats yer boat, g'head. Just don't drop it down your trouser leg and shoot yernuts off, bro.
1. Uncle Mike's = nope; gun falls out on its own.
2. Kydex formfitting snap in = depending on where you carry, reasonable.
3. Nate 2 Squared polycarbonate IWB, but no cover garment = Not bad, not bad at all. Gotta twist it the 'wrong way' to get it out.
4. Thumb press kydex (as in video) = sure, again, depending on where you carry. If too far back, hard to access could be an issue.
5. Double retention = prob. too much.
6. Triple retention = only for professionals, LE, FIB, CAI, BTAF; guys who run -to- the fight.

What worries me sometimes is the typical Walmart stance, hunched over the cart in the checkout line. I've had older ladies 'count coup' on me (I was carrying concealed under the arm at the time). I didn't even know the lady and she comes up and pats my back or shoulder telling me it was hot outside or cold or something. Middle aged ladies like to paw me for some crazy reason, in Walmart. "I don't KNOW YOU, ma'am".

Thoughts?
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,428
Location
northern wis
Having seen several handguns fall out of holsters over the years I am a firm believer in some type of positive retention system.

I also use a lanyard in certain situations.

But to each your own.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Do you NEED one in order to OC safely?

First, let's clarify "retention" - unless your handgun is floating in the air whatever holster you are using is retaining it.

Second, let's look at what sort of stresses and gravitational pull you are going to subject the handgun to in relation to how friction between the holster and the handgun resists that gravitational force.

Third, let's figure out just how paranoid about a gun grab you are or are not.

One-size-fits-all/most usually does not do a good job for any size. Additional retention is probably a good idea just to avoid scratches when your handgun falls out.

Holster material is significant. Nylon/Codura has a low coefficient of friction and is difficult to fit closely to the handgun.

Some folks swear that detail boning of leather/kydex/plastic creates additional friction which means more retention.

Some folks do cartwheels down the street and have a higher need to make sure their handgun does not fall out and get scratched. Couch potatos and mall-walkers have different needs.

To close out, we'll bring up that some folks like a retention device because it gives them an additional split second to decide if they really, really want/need to pull the handgun. Following a self defense incident those people are often referred to as "deceased".

All this does not mean I'm against retention devices. Heck, some of my favorite holsters have them. But since I tend to carry the same handgun the same way in the same holster those others tend to sit in a plastic bin (just in case one day I change my mind).

stay safe.
 

OC Freedom

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
646
Location
ADA County, ID
Do you NEED one in order to OC safely?

First, let's clarify "retention" - unless your handgun is floating in the air whatever holster you are using is retaining it.

Second, let's look at what sort of stresses and gravitational pull you are going to subject the handgun to in relation to how friction between the holster and the handgun resists that gravitational force.

Third, let's figure out just how paranoid about a gun grab you are or are not.

One-size-fits-all/most usually does not do a good job for any size. Additional retention is probably a good idea just to avoid scratches when your handgun falls out.

Holster material is significant. Nylon/Codura has a low coefficient of friction and is difficult to fit closely to the handgun.

Some folks swear that detail boning of leather/kydex/plastic creates additional friction which means more retention.

Some folks do cartwheels down the street and have a higher need to make sure their handgun does not fall out and get scratched. Couch potatos and mall-walkers have different needs.

To close out, we'll bring up that some folks like a retention device because it gives them an additional split second to decide if they really, really want/need to pull the handgun. Following a self defense incident those people are often referred to as "deceased".

All this does not mean I'm against retention devices. Heck, some of my favorite holsters have them. But since I tend to carry the same handgun the same way in the same holster those others tend to sit in a plastic bin (just in case one day I change my mind).

stay safe.

My cartwheeling days are long past (three decades past:(), so I'm happy using a Fobus holster for myself, it has enough retention to stay put for my life activities.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
Fobus?

Just to add...paddle holsters are no go. A 15yo kid could rip it right off that metal pin if he wanted to.

YMMV.
 

OC Freedom

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
646
Location
ADA County, ID
Fobus?

Just to add...paddle holsters are no go. A 15yo kid could rip it right off that metal pin if he wanted to.

YMMV.

I have limited options for my Glock 42 for now. Yes, I open carry a Glock 42, I like the fact it only weighs 16 oz fully loaded and its not pulling down on my belt.
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
I OC my SIG P239 in a Galco leather holster specifically configured for that pistol, and it includes a thumb-release top retention strap.

This retention strap does not increase my draw time because I have practiced the draw many, many times. I believe that even though it's a simple retention device, most "grabbers" would not be familiar with it, and will prevent them from achieving their goal of removing the pistol before I have had time to react.

This is a theoretical belief -- I have never had anyone try to grab my firearm.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Youtube personality The Yankee Marshal thinks absolutely not

See his March 15, 2015 video below discussing people that say you MUST have a retention holster to open carry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lbl2qHbqTA

WOW, I am so impressed with YM, at one time I believed he was CC only, but wow. He certainly supports at least handgun open carry, and does a good job busting myths, and does it safely.

Massad Ayoob, where are you, have you watched his videos? You might actually learn something...

Disclaimer<nothing above should be taken that I like Yankees> I do recognize when they do something noble, kinda makes them a honorable southern gentlemen.
 

Elm Creek Smith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
204
Location
In the county.
I've open carried with Don Hume JIT belt slides and a Bucheimer Concealer with a thumbbreak. Fobus never impressed me, though. Now, however, I use a Safariland Model 6378 ALS holster on the belt loop for my S&W Model 37 most of the time and the Bucheimer Concealer for my Model 13. I'm not telling anyone else their business, I just feel better knowing that it's going to take a deliberate act to release the gun.

YMMV.

In the interests of full disclosure, I carry my service revolver S&W Model 686 in a Safariland Model 6280 SLS at work and have gotten used to the security features. If they aren't there, I miss them. :D
 
Last edited:

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Fobus?

Just to add...paddle holsters are no go. A 15yo kid could rip it right off that metal pin if he wanted to.

YMMV.

Yes, some nebulous kid could.

But except in handgun retention classes when was the last time someone made a grab for your gun? Or intentionally targeted on OCer for a gun grab because they were OCing?

When was the last time you ripped off your Fobus paddle holster when you became entangled on something like a chair or table?

I'm glad you have found something else so that you will not be forced, by lack of alternatives, to wear a Fobus paddle holster.

(Full disclosure: I dislike Fobus holsters because they tend to melt onto my very warm slide when I reholster.)

stay safe.
 

nobama

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
756
Location
, ,
I like a level 2 retention. I carry the Glock 19 in a Blackhawk Serpa paddle holster. Anyone that knows, this holster cannot just be pulled up off your belt, in fact if you dont know the trick, it can be a genuine PITA. The Bersa is carried in a Bianchi with a leather thumb break. It can be pulled up off the belt alot easier. Good thread BTW.
 

ATM

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
360
Location
Indiana, USA
I concur, there is no need for a retention holster to carry safely, openly or concealed.
 

Elm Creek Smith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
204
Location
In the county.
If you ride a motorcycle while carrying...

...I'm thinking that a retention holster might not be a bad idea, having myself become separated from my bike through no fault of my own. Luckily, I was wearing my carry gun concealed that day in a shoulder holster under my armored jacket, so my S&W Model 13 remained with me. (Yeah, I'm a gear guy - boots, helmet, armored jacket.)
 
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