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Thread: Vote Or Else!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tricorn's Avatar
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    Vote Or Else!

    Obama calls for mandatory voting in U.S.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ory-voting-us/



    --Mod note--
    Moved this to its own separate thread.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-19-2015 at 09:54 AM.

  2. #2
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    Endorsing and calling for are two entirely different things.

    Too many eligible people choose to not vote. Then they complain about the results.
    Last edited by rickyII; 03-19-2015 at 10:54 AM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickyII View Post
    Endorsing and calling for are two entirely different things.

    Too many eligible people choose to not vote. Then they complain about the results.
    So?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  4. #4
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    The LAST thing we need is more stupid people voting, just watch Water's World on O'rielly's show, it really scares me that these people can vote.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Not casting a vote for any of the available candidates is a vote in and of itself. I know because so many people tell me it is.

    Many jurisdictions do not consider "None of the Above" to be a valid vote. Many more will not report on write-in candidates1 until they reach some magic percentage threshold.

    Re: non-voters being denied the aility to whinge - I'd like to see an indelible ink that lasts 4 years and finally fades by the end of the primary season. No purple thumb? Shut yer gob!

    stay safe.

    1 - You youngsters may not remember Pat Paulsen who made several runs for the presidency as a third-party candidate. In his last campaign he came this close <_________________________________________________ ____________________> to making it. Has any other third-party candidate done as well?
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  6. #6
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    We live in a Country where a 17 year old genius cannot vote however a 30 year old idiot can.. Seems like it needs fixing to me however making it mandatory is not the answer..

    My .02

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  7. #7
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    I think we've made voting entirely too easy. Motor voter registration, too many places without voter ID laws, I don't know of any that actually require evidence of citizenship to register to vote, vote by mail, early voting, talk of internet voting. "What we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly."

    Not only do we have far too many people ignorant of the issues and candidates in any particular election, they are grossly ignorant as to our form of government.

    I would be quite thrilled if we had some kind of test before someone could register to vote. Call it a civics literacy test.

    Sadly, given the very ugly, racist history and constitutional ban on such things, that isn't going to happen. But I'm certainly not going to encourage the lazy, ignorant, or stupid to vote...except as they may ask my opinion on whom to vote for and look like they might actually that way.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
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    Our conception of democracy is corrupt. Aristotle in his Politics (4.1294b), "It is accepted as democratic when public offices are allocated by lot; and as oligarchic when they are filled by election." Sortition was the primary method for appointing political officials and its use was conventionally regarded at the time as a principal characteristic of democracy. (Headlam, James Wycliffe (1891). Election by Lot at Athens. p. 12.)

    Even now, when fair filling of a disagreeable office is required, as juror, it is done by lot. Public office should be so weighty as to be filled by lot. Someone eager for public office should not be trusted as honest or of sound mind.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    The LAST thing we need is more stupid people voting, just watch Water's World on O'rielly's show, it really scares me that these people can vote.
    It scares me that people that watch Orielly can vote
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  10. #10
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    It scares me that people that watch Orielly can vote

    ... and the donkey you rode in on.
    Last edited by F350; 03-20-2015 at 09:47 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickyII View Post
    SNIP Too many eligible people choose to not vote. Then they complain about the results.
    Well, here it goes again. From a couple different angles.


    This paragraph is for constitutionalists. When the constitution was ratified (1789), over half the population could not vote. Women didn't get the vote until the 1920's--that's about half the population right there. All states had a property requirement. Some states also had a certain minimum amount of money requirement. The last clause of the First Amendment guarantees the right to petition government for redress of grievances. What's a grievance? A complaint. No where does the Bill of Rights require one to have voted in order to exercise the rights. And, a person, voter or not, cannot possibly have the right to complain to government without first having the right to complain period.

    The right to complain is the right to object. It is a fundamental human right. People have a right not to be over-taxed, over-regulated, or over-criminalized, and the whole litany of other government abuses--corruption, pandering, sold-out to special interests, etc., etc., etc. regardless of whether they voted. Moreover, they have a right to be concerned and object when these things are inflicted on their fellow human beings--friends, family, countrymen, even other peoples on other continents.

    For myself, there is no human being on earth I hate so much that I would actually vote to afflict him with government.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
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    I guess we could also debate whether voting is a Right or a Privilege...

    I vote privilege, since the Government puts restrictions on voting. However unlike some Government privileges we do not surrender any of our Rights when we exercise our privilege to vote...

    As I referenced in an earlier post, it baffles my mind that a 17 year old genius cannot vote however a 30 year old idiot can vote...

    Great subject for discussion..

    My .02

    Best regards

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  13. #13
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    ... and the donkey you rode in on.
    oh lighten up
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    I guess we could also debate whether voting is a Right or a Privilege...

    I vote privilege, since the Government puts restrictions on voting. However unlike some Government privileges we do not surrender any of our Rights when we exercise our privilege to vote...

    As I referenced in an earlier post, it baffles my mind that a 17 year old genius cannot vote however a 30 year old idiot can vote...

    Great subject for discussion..

    My .02

    Best regards

    CCJ
    Good questions. Good food for thought.

    Just thinking out loud here.

    Regarding 17/30, I suppose the Founders kinda answered part of that when they said the safest repository for power was the people. From there, one would have to draw a line somewhere as to minimum age. Or, I guess you could have a Voter Jury who examined under-age applicants, and upon approving their genius, could certify them to vote. I wonder, do emancipated minors have voting privileges?

    As for voting being privilege because it is subject to government restriction, I would agree with you in a certain framework. In the same way exercising the 5th Amendment is a "privilege" because the government restricts how you can use it. And, getting married is a "privilege" because it is licensed and subject to restrictions. In the larger picture, I would say it is a right, in the sense that a person has a right to voluntarily enter into an agreement as to how govern-ers will be selected, especially if they are going to govern him.

    I did just think of a few rights people surrender when they exercise their voting "privilege". For many pro-gunners, their polling station is in a school. In VA, I think we now have to tender the requested documents when a poll worker asks, "Papers, please, comrade."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    --snipped--
    I wonder, do emancipated minors have voting privileges?
    "As a general rule, there some things an emancipated minor can't do, such as vote, get a driver's license, or buy or drink alcohol. Rather, you have to wait until you reach the age set by state or federal law. For instance, in many states you must be 16 years old to get a driver's license, and federal law sets the voting age at 18."
    http://family-law.lawyers.com/childr...r-own-kid.html
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    There is no right to vote in natural law or in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The various voting rights Amendments restrict the means of limiting a hypothetical enfranchisement.

    Our modern conception of democracy is corrupted from its origins in Ancient Greece.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    SNIP There is no right to vote in natural law or in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The various voting rights Amendments restrict the means of limiting a hypothetical enfranchisement.
    Love that second sentence! Captures it perfectly, I think.

    Regarding a natural right to vote, there has to be a natural right to vote. Here is what I mean by that. Any group of people have a natural right to voluntarily aggregate themselves into a society and then establish a system to select someone(s) to whom they would delegate power to govern themselves. They could draw lots, throw dice, use hair color, or vote, whatever system they voluntarily agreed.

    On the other hand, is there a natural right to vote to select rulers that would rule not only the other consenting voters, but all other human beings in a given territory? Nope.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Definitely no natural right to force others to partake in the ritual that gives the illusion of legitimacy to the rulers.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    definitely no natural right to force others to partake in the ritual that gives the illusion of legitimacy to the rulers.
    +1

    ccj
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  20. #20
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    The LAST thing we need is more stupid people voting, just watch Water's World on O'rielly's show, it really scares me that these people can vote.
    Agreed. We do not need more idiots voting.
    I deal in customer service at one of my jobs and the number of people who should not even be pumping their own fuel astounds me.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    ... and the donkey you rode in on.
    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    oh lighten up
    That WAS light!

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    If you don't vote, you have no right to bitch. My .02

  23. #23
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz272 View Post
    If you don't vote, you have no right to bitch. My .02
    Beyotching is not a right, it's an ability.

    If you vote, you get to do jury duty quicker...

    What's his method for 'forcing people' to vote? If there was an easy-peasy way to click on a link or use of the 'Net, but the gubmint don't want that because they'd be a-skeerd of what might happen.

    In fact BHO/they don't want you to vote for the reasons stated, I bet.

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz272 View Post
    If you don't vote, you have no right to bitch. My .02
    My .02 would disagree....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
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    In addition to the 19th, the right to vote is mentioned in the 15th, 24th and 26th Amendments to the Constitution. Each time it plainly states the right of citizens of the Unites States to vote.

    I do not think any other right is mentioned five times in the Constitution as is the case with the right to vote. It should be clear that it is also a protected right which, “shall not be abridged or denied.” Unfortunately, the need for the four special Amendments has been due to the injustice of political manipulation. Perhaps, sadly, even with these protections of the right to vote, we have not seen the end of republican political attempts to manipulate (abridge, deny) citizens’ right to vote (in certain demographic locations).

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