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Thread: McAuliffe will veto bills normal Virginians would like

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    McAuliffe will veto bills normal Virginians would like

    This was expected, right?

    Sources: McAuliffe vetoes likely to include Tebow bill, gun and voting measures
    Three gun bills are also said to be on McAuliffe's firing squad:

    House Bill 2286 - The bill would allow the possession and transportation of "firearms, ammunition, stun weapons, and explosive materials" by convicted felons whose right to possess firearms or ammunition had been restored under the law of another state.

    Senate Bill 938 - It would prohibit the state from sharing its information on concealed handgun permit holders in the Virginia Criminal Information Network with any state that does not allow Virginia permit holders to carry concealed in their state.

    Senate Bill 1137 - The bill would allow anyone with a concealed handgun permit to be exempt from any local ordinances that prohibit having a loaded rifle or shotgun in their car while on a public street, road or highway.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with HB2286, SB938 is ok but really more crying after the fact by people that were told this would happen.

    BUT......
    I wish he'd get on with sending SB 1137 to hell where it belongs. I hope Goddard remembered to thank Philip for pushing that bill.
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-24-2015 at 09:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Nothing wrong with HB2286, SB938 is ok but really more crying after the fact by people that were told this would happen.

    BUT......
    I wish he'd get on with sending SB 1137 to hell where it belongs. I hope Goddard remembered to thank Philip for pushing that bill.
    I can't figure out the point of SB1137. Is it maybe just a nibble-at-the-edges?

    Oh, I understand the CHP P4P angle. I just can't figure out why they would even bother. Unless this dumb law looks like low-hanging fruit.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I can't figure out the point of SB1137. Is it maybe just a nibble-at-the-edges?

    Oh, I understand the CHP P4P angle. I just can't figure out why they would even bother. Unless this dumb law looks like low-hanging fruit.
    Preemption, the bill for all gun owners was full of holes, mostly antiquated hunting laws.
    Last year, a VCDL member and hunter asked the bill be introduced because moving from one hunting field to another often involved crossing county lines. Unloading before each move is stupid.

    When the bill was introduced he was shocked to see that it was for permit holders only and frankly VCDLS support for it was the last straw for many.

    This bill is not what was intended or wanted. It was supposed to strengthen preemption. ..not weaken unlicensed carry...and I really don't want to hear anymore baby steps bull s##€ about it.

    When asked why, the patron said he didn't consider having a loaded long gun a 2nd amendment right.
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-24-2015 at 10:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Preemption, the bill for all gun owners was full of holes, mostly antiquated hunting laws.
    Last year, a VCDL member and hunter asked the bill be introduced because moving from one hunting field to another often involved crossing county lines. Unloading before each move is stupid.

    When the bill was introduced he was shocked to see that it was for permit holders only and frankly VCDLS support for it was the last straw for many.

    This bill is not what was intended or wanted. It was supposed to strengthen preemption. ..not weaken unlicensed carry...and I really don't want to hear anymore baby steps bull s##€ about it.

    When asked why, the patron said he didn't consider having a loaded long gun a 2nd amendment right.
    Oh, I get it. Ok.



    Separately, and just to verify. In the current context, loaded means a charged magazine? As opposed to the correct meaning, a round chambered.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Perhaps simple(-ton) things in an election year to put in the gun rights supporter column
    *I am not a lawyer. Nothing from me shall be construed as a magic cloak of legal advice. It's ultimately your tucas that's on the line. Keep examining the law anyway. The gov't, made up of people like us, is supposed to work for us, not against us. Let's find, correct, and avoid the wrongs before they're actively used against us, or we become innocently trapped by them. We're to be the masters. Let's vigilantly keep tabs on our servants who seek to rule us.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Peter - NorNil says "These are not the droids you are looking for"

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Preemption, the bill for all gun owners was full of holes, mostly antiquated hunting laws.
    Last year, a VCDL member and hunter asked the bill be introduced because moving from one hunting field to another often involved crossing county lines. Unloading before each move is stupid.

    When the bill was introduced he was shocked to see that it was for permit holders only and frankly VCDLS support for it was the last straw for many.

    This bill is not what was intended or wanted. It was supposed to strengthen preemption. ..not weaken unlicensed carry...and I really don't want to hear anymore baby steps bull s##€ about it.

    When asked why, the patron said he didn't consider having a loaded long gun a 2nd amendment right.
    But, but, but Peter,

    NorNil says that these are not the gun laws we are bothered by, so we do not work hard to them. I mean come on Peter, except in very limited assault weapon circumstances, the CHP doesn't even apply to rifles and shotguns!!!!

    NorNil didn't tell you? We all have a pinky swear duty to support the Northern Virginia city-folk ideas about firearms laws in Virginia. How dare we try to fix stupid laws that burden our rights and interfere with their incremental baby step approach to empowering permit holders. While I am happy that those north of the Nile (NorNil) fight so hard to preserve carry in a library, I would like them also t0 support the fight to fix the preemption loopholes that create significant problems for hunters during every day of the hunting season.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    But, but, but Peter,

    NorNil says that these are not the gun laws we are bothered by, so we do not work hard to them. I mean come on Peter, except in very limited assault weapon circumstances, the CHP doesn't even apply to rifles and shotguns!!!!

    NorNil didn't tell you? We all have a pinky swear duty to support the Northern Virginia city-folk ideas about firearms laws in Virginia. How dare we try to fix stupid laws that burden our rights and interfere with their incremental baby step approach to empowering permit holders. While I am happy that those north of the Nile (NorNil) fight so hard to preserve carry in a library, I would like them also t0 support the fight to fix the preemption loopholes that create significant problems for hunters during every day of the hunting season.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    Well...nothing passed this year is a win for ALL gun owners and in fact, the long gun bill is a big win for the anti gun people. I'm amazed it's headed for a veto.
    It's always good to listen to the antis just to see what they want.

    Take Lori Haas for instance. Her husband owns guns, all she wants is for everyone to go through a background check and have a permit.
    That's exactly the purpose of that bill.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    (snip)
    everyone to go through a background check and have a permit.
    That's exactly the purpose of that bill.
    1+

    The more perks for CHP'rs the more some folks want them, the more special they feel.

    Gun owners would never fall for gun registration, but they are buying into gun owner registration on a whole sale level.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    1+

    The more perks for CHP'rs the more some folks want them, the more special they feel.

    Gun owners would never fall for gun registration, but they are buying into gun owner registration on a whole sale level.
    It is borderline sickening the sense of entitlement and glee some people get from presenting that little permission slip. Such backwards logic.

    "See... I have more rights than you. How hard is it to get a little card?"

    ...I hear this as-

    "See...I submit and grant authority to government to regulate my natural rights. How hard is it for you to give it all away and submit too?"
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    It is borderline sickening the sense of entitlement and glee some people get from presenting that little permission slip. Such backwards logic.

    "See... I have more rights than you. How hard is it to get a little card?"

    ...I hear this as-

    "See...I submit and grant authority to government to regulate my natural rights. How hard is it for you to give it all away and submit too?"
    I find that it's a bad idea to generalize large groups of people like that.

    Do I have a CHP? Yes, I do. I usually OC wherever I go, but there are some times and places where having the option to conceal is useful. For example, I have an aunt in assisted living, and I am one of her only relatives left in the area. While the facility itself isn't posted, she is pathologically afraid of guns, and at over 70 years old there's no way she's going to change. My choices are to either not visit her, disarm, or have a CHP so I can legally conceal. I choose the latter as the best of several bad options.

    Similarly, I attend church on a weekly basis. My purpose in attending isn't to advocate for 2A rights, but to worship the Lord. OC would become a distraction with some in my congregation and take away from their worship. My only options there are to either no go, disarm, or have a CHP so I can legally conceal. Again, the latter is the best of several bad options.

    So yes, I submitted to the government's regulation of my natural rights, because I refuse to let that regulation keep me from being defenseless while I attend to things I find more important, like family and my personal salvation. At the same time, I am working towards changing, reducing, or eliminating that regulation as much as I can.

    Are their idiots in any group? Sure. Not everyone who open carries is an ally to our goals. (See also some of the incidents in Texas that nearly torpedoed OC there.) In the same way, not everyone with a CHP is one of the "I have more rights than you" idiots. In fact, I would guess most people with a CHP are not in that camp. Most of them are, like me, just trying to deal with an imperfect world the best that they can.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    I find that it's a bad idea to generalize large groups of people like that.

    Do I have a CHP? Yes, I do. I usually OC wherever I go, but there are some times and places where having the option to conceal is useful. For example, I have an aunt in assisted living, and I am one of her only relatives left in the area. While the facility itself isn't posted, she is pathologically afraid of guns, and at over 70 years old there's no way she's going to change. My choices are to either not visit her, disarm, or have a CHP so I can legally conceal. I choose the latter as the best of several bad options.

    Similarly, I attend church on a weekly basis. My purpose in attending isn't to advocate for 2A rights, but to worship the Lord. OC would become a distraction with some in my congregation and take away from their worship. My only options there are to either no go, disarm, or have a CHP so I can legally conceal. Again, the latter is the best of several bad options.

    So yes, I submitted to the government's regulation of my natural rights, because I refuse to let that regulation keep me from being defenseless while I attend to things I find more important, like family and my personal salvation. At the same time, I am working towards changing, reducing, or eliminating that regulation as much as I can.

    Are their idiots in any group? Sure. Not everyone who open carries is an ally to our goals. (See also some of the incidents in Texas that nearly torpedoed OC there.) In the same way, not everyone with a CHP is one of the "I have more rights than you" idiots. In fact, I would guess most people with a CHP are not in that camp. Most of them are, like me, just trying to deal with an imperfect world the best that they can.
    I agree with your reasoning, but you're generalizing large groups of people. Your aunt is is in the same age group as many of us on this forum.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    I agree with your reasoning, but you're generalizing large groups of people. Your aunt is is in the same age group as many of us on this forum.
    Many of the people in this forum aren't showing early signs of dementia. I know my aunt, and she is absolutely set in her ways on this topic.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    I agree with your reasoning, but you're generalizing large groups of people. Your aunt is is in the same age group as many of us on this forum.
    Actually if you go back you'll see that I agree with his reasoning. If people are willing to go along with the program and get a CHP...that's fine by me.
    BUT a CHP only gives one the privilage of hiding the gun and that's where I draw the line. It shouldn't allow them to carry in the general assembly building, carry while bow hunting or have a loaded long gun in their vehicle.

    Those are things ALL gun owners should be allowed.

    I supported the restaurant bill and was very vocal about my reasoning. It created parity. Both ChIPpers and OCers should have the same rights.

    Unfortunately the CHP community has not adopted that pholosophy.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    I find that it's a bad idea to generalize large groups of people like that.
    Most of them are, like me, just trying to deal with an imperfect world the best that they can.
    Didn't mean to offend those that are not perpetrators of what I've described. That's why you'll notice I used the key word emboldened below. I thought I made it pretty clear:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth
    It is borderline sickening the sense of entitlement and glee some people get from presenting that little permission slip. Such backwards logic.


    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Actually if you go back you'll see that I agree with his reasoning. If people are willing to go along with the program and get a CHP...that's fine by me.
    BUT a CHP only gives one the privilage of hiding the gun and that's where I draw the line. It shouldn't allow them to carry in the general assembly building, carry while bow hunting or have a loaded long gun in their vehicle.

    Those are things ALL gun owners should be allowed.

    I supported the restaurant bill and was very vocal about my reasoning. It created parity. Both ChIPpers and OCers should have the same rights.

    Unfortunately the CHP community has not adopted that pholosophy.
    It's the privileges that irk me too, Nap.
    Last edited by The Truth; 03-26-2015 at 03:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    Many of the people in this forum aren't showing early signs of dementia. I know my aunt, and she is absolutely set in her ways on this topic.
    I was hinting that your post implied that (the large group of) people over 70 were set in their ways. Many on this forum are set in their ways, but not because we're over a certain age. Dementia has nothing to do with it, IIRC.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    I was hinting that your post implied that (the large group of) people over 70 were set in their ways. Many on this forum are set in their ways, but not because we're over a certain age. Dementia has nothing to do with it, IIRC.
    Nor does being an official Curmudgeon...
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Actually if you go back you'll see that I agree with his reasoning. If people are willing to go along with the program and get a CHP...that's fine by me.
    BUT a CHP only gives one the privilage of hiding the gun and that's where I draw the line. It shouldn't allow them to carry in the general assembly building, carry while bow hunting or have a loaded long gun in their vehicle.

    Those are things ALL gun owners should be allowed.

    I supported the restaurant bill and was very vocal about my reasoning. It created parity. Both ChIPpers and OCers should have the same rights.

    Unfortunately the CHP community has not adopted that pholosophy.
    And, as we've discussed before, that is the one area where you and I partially disagree.

    I don't have a problem with P4P, but only when it is used as a stepping stone to get a foot in the door (so to speak). When we are facing a hostile governor, we need every step forward we can get, even if it's only a few inches. The trick is to not stop at those few inches, but to keep pushing towards the ultimate goal (constitutional carry).
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    And, as we've discussed before, that is the one area where you and I partially disagree.

    I don't have a problem with P4P, but only when it is used as a stepping stone to get a foot in the door (so to speak). When we are facing a hostile governor, we need every step forward we can get, even if it's only a few inches. The trick is to not stop at those few inches, but to keep pushing towards the ultimate goal (constitutional carry).
    Considering the continued support for bills like this...baby steps and stepping stones are only fairy tales to keep the unwashed masses happy.
    As Philip said recently...I'm mean spirited especially this year when the best friends of gun owners are anti gun legislators and Administration.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    And, as we've discussed before, that is the one area where you and I partially disagree.

    I don't have a problem with P4P, but only when it is used as a stepping stone to get a foot in the door (so to speak). When we are facing a hostile governor, we need every step forward we can get, even if it's only a few inches. The trick is to not stop at those few inches, but to keep pushing towards the ultimate goal (constitutional carry).
    A Virginia permit allows one to hide their gun like a common criminal. We already have broad based, legal open carry of handguns.

    Constitutional Carry? This ain't Kansas Toto........cause Kansas is on the cusp of getting just that. It is embarrassing that Kansas should recognize/accept Constitutional Carry before Virginia.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...40#post2132540
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-26-2015 at 06:31 PM.
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A Virginia permit allows one to hide their gun like a common criminal. We already have broad based, legal open carry of handguns.

    Constitutional Carry? This ain't Kansas Toto........cause Kansas is on the cusp of getting just that. It is embarrassing that Kansas should recognize/accept Constitutional Carry before Virginia.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...40#post2132540
    It could be worse. They could have dangled in front you long enough to hope then snatch it away.
    Last edited by twoskinsonemanns; 03-26-2015 at 09:21 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    It could be worse. The could have dangled in front you long enough to hope then snatch it away.
    Truth be told, we are counting this chicken before the egg is hatched.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    And, as we've discussed before, that is the one area where you and I partially disagree.

    I don't have a problem with P4P, but only when it is used as a stepping stone to get a foot in the door (so to speak). When we are facing a hostile governor, we need every step forward we can get, even if it's only a few inches. The trick is to not stop at those few inches, but to keep pushing towards the ultimate goal (constitutional carry).
    I agree that sometimes it is worth taking the small steps especially if large steps have no chance of success. The potential problem with the incremental approach is the "appearance" that we will "never be satisfied" and are always looking for more. (kind of like what we accuse the anti's of all the time).

    I am not saying don't do it or always do it but that it is a "factor" to be considered and evaluated when we consider legislation. I would rather see 2 or 3 worthwhile bills pass than 10 do nothing substantial, but make us feel good, bills get passed.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    I agree that sometimes it is worth taking the small steps especially if large steps have no chance of success. The potential problem with the incremental approach is the "appearance" that we will "never be satisfied" and are always looking for more. (kind of like what we accuse the anti's of all the time).

    I am not saying don't do it or always do it but that it is a "factor" to be considered and evaluated when we consider legislation. I would rather see 2 or 3 worthwhile bills pass than 10 do nothing substantial, but make us feel good, bills get passed.
    Supporting it was a stupid move for VCDL. It had virtually no chance of being signed so playing up to ALL gun owners and saying we don't support it because....would have been the smart move. Instead they took the in your eye approach and drove that wedge deeper.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    McAuliffe gives a gun safety lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I can't figure out the point of SB1137. Is it maybe just a nibble-at-the-edges?

    Oh, I understand the CHP P4P angle. I just can't figure out why they would even bother. Unless this dumb law looks like low-hanging fruit.
    McAuliffe 'explains' why he vetoed these bills:
    McAuliffe, a gun owner and hunter, said the reciprocity bill would put state law enforcement officers at risk. As for the loaded shotgun bill, he said: "One of the first things you learn in gun safety is you do not keep a loaded gun in your vehicle."
    Terry took a gun safety course?

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