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Thread: Conceal Carry on private property.

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    Conceal Carry on private property.

    I was wondering if you can carry concealed on private property such as your house or personal business without a CHP?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.clay507 View Post
    I was wondering if you can carry concealed on private property such as your house or personal business without a CHP?
    It is legal to conceal on your own property, others private property not so much. As for myself I see no need to conceal at home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It is legal to conceal on your own property, others private property not so much. As for myself I see no need to conceal at home.
    I am about to get my first handgun and i am on my church security team. My pastor wants me to conceal carry when i get it but i didnt know if i had to wait until i got my chp since it is private property

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.clay507 View Post
    I am about to get my first handgun and i am on my church security team. My pastor wants me to conceal carry when i get it but i didnt know if i had to wait until i got my chp since it is private property
    you know mate there was a very, very, almost identical similarly worded post and thread in the Colorado ...hummm!!

    sure you want to toddle down this CC path on the OC forum???

    oh by the way why do one of your previous posts on this sub forum specifically state on the 9th of May 2014 you have already purchased a firearm??? blah blah from a friend who is a LE???

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 03-29-2015 at 07:02 PM.
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    I conceal carry in church. We don't have a security team, but there are quite a few guys that carry on Sundays. I've asked a couple of Elders about open carry and have not gotten a real strong answer back either way. Kinda like we'd like you not to, but we don't really know what we would do if someone did come in OC. I said I thought they better think about it cause it might happen someday. Lots of guys walking around with untucked shirts, although I have chosen to wear a sport jacket instead. If you knew me, you would know I am the LAST person in the world to wear a sport jacket, although with jeans I can kinda pull it off I think.

    I think a lot of your answers are state dependant, since we don't know what state you are in its kinda of like shooting in the dark. I might offer that if you are just getting your first handgun you would need lots of time and training before you thought about using it. I have had some conversations with other guys carrying about what it "might" look like in a church when a shot goes off. I suspect that it would be mass chaos with people going every which way. Someone from outside the church might not be so particular about what they were shooting at, where as a security member would not want to be so indiscriminate. I suppose it is no different than anywhere else with lots of people packed into a small area, but it sure gives you something to think about.

    He said his pastor wants him to CC, I could read that as he was thinking maybe he wanted to OC instead? However, if you are asking these BASIC type of questions its "possible" you're not quite ready to be on an armed security team.
    Last edited by Wstar425; 03-29-2015 at 07:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    you know mate there was a very, very, almost identical similarly worded post and thread in the Colorado ...hummm!!

    sure you want to toddle down this CC path on the OC forum???

    oh by the way why do one of your previous posts on this sub forum specifically state on the 9th of May 2014 you have already purchased a firearm??? blah blah from a friend who is a LE???

    ipse
    I have shot handguns and i am trained with firearms. I turn 21in a week, thats why i haven't bought one yet. I plan on OC all the time and this is one of the very very few reasons i would get a CHP. And i was planning on buying one from a friend but it didn't work out
    Last edited by j.clay507; 03-29-2015 at 07:07 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.clay507 View Post
    I am about to get my first handgun and i am on my church security team. My pastor wants me to conceal carry when i get it but i didnt know if i had to wait until i got my chp since it is private property
    So the church is not your private property? Then no! And you may want to check into state specific laws concerning armed security.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.clay507 View Post
    I have shot handguns and i am trained with firearms. I turn 21in a week, thats why i haven't bought one yet. I plan on OC all the time and this is one of the very very few reasons i would get a CHP. And i was planning on buying one from a friend but it didn't work out
    quote

    Thread: Open Cary Age for handguns
    by j.clay507

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    Views: 502

    Im am 20 and a new owner of a handgun and want to make sure i abide by the law. So it is ok to open carry before 21 as long as you are 18+

    unquote

    you were saying mate?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    So the church is not your private property? Then no! And you may want to check into state specific laws concerning armed security.
    Thats what I thought, just wanted to be 100% sure. I plan on OCing all the time outside of church but will get my CHP for that

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    quote

    Thread: Open Cary Age for handguns
    by j.clay507

    Replies: 4
    Views: 502


    Im am 20 and a new owner of a handgun and want to make sure i abide by the law. So it is ok to open carry before 21 as long as you are 18+

    unquote

    you were saying mate?

    ipse

    I was going to get it later that day and it fell through

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    What state are you located in? I assume NC but you never know.
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    first of all, you concealing or open carrying on church property for 'a security patrol' on the oral word of your 'pastor' might not protect you from judicial oversight.

    you are putting yourself at substantial personal pecuniary risk especially since the use of deadly force is not covered under NC statutes to preclude or stop thieves, or trespass activities, or effect a citizen's arrest, or even pointing your firearm at anybody is a felon consideration.

    BTW, I am again curious so what pray tell does a church security patrol need with firearms?

    ipse

    ps...HBday?
    Last edited by solus; 04-05-2015 at 08:55 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    first of all, you concealing or open carrying on church property for 'a security patrol' on the oral word of your 'pastor' might not protect you from judicial oversight.

    you are putting yourself at substantial personal pecuniary risk especially since the use of deadly force is not covered under NC statutes to preclude or stop thieves, or trespass activities, or effect a citizen's arrest, or even pointing your firearm at anybody is a felon consideration.

    BTW, I am again curious so what pray tell does a church security patrol need with firearms?

    ipse

    ps...HBday?
    Probably one of those mega churches with thousands of dollars in instruments and audio visual equipment and the pastor drives a new BMW.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDT COX View Post
    Probably one of those mega churches with thousands of dollars in instruments and audio visual equipment and the pastor drives a new BMW.
    CDT, please remember,
    (reviewing a borrowed DOJ tome)
    1. "NC statutes does not permit the use of deadly force solely to protect property, to prevent theft, or to regain stolen property." (pg 31, NC DOJ academy's Laws covering conceal hand gun and use of deadly force)

    2. "Trespassers may be in violation of the law, but the law does not allow deadly force to end the trespass." (pg 32, same cite.)

    3. 15A-404(a) No Arrest; Detention Permitted. No private person may arrest another person except as provided in G.S. 15A-405. A private person may detain another person as provided in this section. http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...Article_20.pdf

    5. NC statutes 14-34 makes it clear intentionally point a handgun at another is a crime, Assault by Pointing a Gun http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/SiteS...&q=14-34&sa=Go


    you will note with interest CDT, et al., NC statutes do not quantify OC or CC firearm use so my question remains...WHY??

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    @solus Your argument "Why armed security at a church?" seems ridiculous to me. Let's go back a few years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqDVBWcBy2g

    Secondly, no-one stated anything about pointing a gun at anyone or stopping trespass or anything of the like. You seem to be condescending a fellow OCer on this board with pointless statements and irrelevant cites.

    The strawman argument you seem to be using here is "Why carry a gun at all if I can't use it or point it or stop any criminals from conducting criminal activity?". I find this argument ludicrous. You carry a gun for personal protection and in defense of you and your family from mortal danger.....so why chastise? Where's your teaching point?

    Give the kid a break.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor_baghdad View Post
    @solus Your argument "Why armed security at a church?" seems ridiculous to me. Let's go back a few years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqDVBWcBy2g
    Secondly, no-one stated anything about pointing a gun at anyone or stopping trespass or anything of the like. You seem to be condescending a fellow OCer on this board with pointless statements and irrelevant cites.
    The strawman argument you seem to be using here is "Why carry a gun at all if I can't use it or point it or stop any criminals from conducting criminal activity?". I find this argument ludicrous. You carry a gun for personal protection and in defense of you and your family from mortal danger.....so why chastise? Where's your teaching point?
    Give the kid a break.
    razor, et al., my teaching point is multiple fold:
    1. the young man has no knowledge about pecuniary liability as he 'functions' on a presumed volunteer 'security team' strictly on the verbal guidance of a 'pastor'!

    2. the young man by his own admission lacks a CHP, therefore he has failed to get even a rudimentary understanding of NC statutes and the use of deadly force and may be under the mistaken expectation(s) they can stop thief of property, or trespass, or possibly pull their firearms to accomplish a citizen's arrest!! the statutes were cited so they might do their own due diligence seeking appropriate information.

    3. since he is not CHP trained he therefore lacks the rudimentary understanding on the four criteria necessary to meet the bare minimum of judicial defense to use deadly force of yourself, loved ones, as well as defense of others ,and as such would then would be subject to judicial oversight to defend his actions at a cost of personal $$$ as the team is working under 'verbal' guidance of a pastor let alone be covered by the church's insurance for legal expenses?

    Razor, as you state, quote: You carry a gun for personal protection and in defense of you and your family from mortal danger....unquote. he does not wish to carry for this purpose razor, et al., he wishes to purposefully conceal/open carry for a completely alternative motive, one which has significant consequences that the members of this forum owe him to provide him or any reader information to possibly preclude a youthful mis-step which, like Zimmerman, could have dire consequences for the remainder of his life!

    strawman argument, chastising...sorry no, providing my expertise and due diligence on the ramifications of his actions carrying a firearm as part of a security team on church property that this young man should seriously consider before stepping out on this activity.

    and regarding the COS New Life Church debacle, please remember Ms Assam was at the time a professional LE who attends that church and btw would fall under the smallest judicial oversight and as the pastor says the new life church's security team is screened and trained, blah blah...this young man is not trained.

    on final comment...he did not ask a question about OC'g but rather can he CC on private property therefore he is not a OC'r!! as he doesn't even have a gun according to his own postings!!

    therefore, my question still remains unanswered: WHY?

    btw, thanks for allowing me to quantify my rationale...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 04-06-2015 at 02:56 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  17. #17
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    first of all, you concealing or open carrying on church property for 'a security patrol' on the oral word of your 'pastor' might not protect you from judicial oversight.

    you are putting yourself at substantial personal pecuniary risk especially since the use of deadly force is not covered under NC statutes to preclude or stop thieves, or trespass activities, or effect a citizen's arrest, or even pointing your firearm at anybody is a felon consideration.

    BTW, I am again curious so what pray tell does a church security patrol need with firearms?

    ipse

    ps...HBday?
    Was just going to say that it's probably a very, very foolish idea to carry a firearm and be 'appointed' (allegedly) by the pastor (for what?), because when push comes to shove the pastor is just as likely to say 'I don't know anything about a 'church security team'.

    My advice? Keep it in your pants and only use if personally in grave danger of life and limb.

    Otherwise get it in writing from the church board, get an umbrella insurance policy and before that, just lock the doors of the church during and after collection.

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