Lake Ozark Police Chief

logunowner said:

Jeffry, I have no idea what the context of the post of solus you are responding to because I refuse to read any posts from the man. You and I do not always agree on everything to make sure Missouri is a Constitutional Carry state before the dust settles, but from what I have seen we both are active in doing something. It is the people like solus that burn my butt because they think they know all and have done little. And solus, if you post a list of things you have done publicly to bring Constitutional Carry to Missouri or anything other State I will be the first to say I am a butt.(P.S. address your post to BB62, otherwise I will not see it)

Jeffry, I am just a 66 year old guy that believes that all that has happened in my lifetime was not for knot, that there is enough true Americans left that will stand up for the Second Amendment that my 1 year grandson will be able to protect him and his family in a way with less restrictions than I do today.

By the way, that well written records request is in the hands that govern........

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sorry, i will not be a party to your histrionic activities where i pass notes through a third party emissary...
tis through your own apparent closed minded actions where you have demonstrated the inappropriateness of your emotionally charged actions towards those you feel stifle 'your cause's activities' coupled with your inability to address ppl civilly w/o name calling which could be why you have fail to reach your goal.

oh truly glad you followed the advice supplied in post 6 as i am curious to see the outcome of the FOIA document BB62 generated for you.

ipse

Solus Just a quick question or two

Do you live in Missouri?

And can you answer logunowner question?

It is the people like solus that burn my butt because they think they know all and have done little. And solus, if you post a list of things you have done publicly to bring Constitutional Carry to Missouri or anything other State I will be the first to say I am a butt.(P.S. address your post to BB62, otherwise I will not see it)

I am curious are you an active OC'er in the area where you reside?

Renegadez said:

Solus Just a quick question or two

Do you live in Missouri?

And can you answer logunowner question?

It is the people like solus that burn my butt because they think they know all and have done little. And solus, if you post a list of things you have done publicly to bring Constitutional Carry to Missouri or anything other State I will be the first to say I am a butt.(P.S. address your post to BB62, otherwise I will not see it)

I am curious are you an active OC'er in the area where you reside?

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sorry, i will not be a party to your histrionic activities where i pass notes through a third party emissary...

and be careful with those stones you are throwing in your glass house as your contributions to the MO cause can easily be checked and weighed and might be found wanting...it is a public forum after all!!

ipse

Dictionary: histrionic, adjective, his·tri·on·ic \ˌhis-trē-ˈä-nik\

: too emotional or dramatic

Full Definition of HISTRIONIC
1: deliberately affected : theatrical
2: of or relating to actors, acting, or the theater

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To be sure everybody is on the same page.

OC for ME said:

To be sure everybody is on the same page.

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Forgive my oversight, but of course you are right OC4MC: histrionic characteristics may include:
Failure to see their own personal situation realistically, instead dramatizing and exaggerating their difficulties
Exhibitionist behavior
Constant seeking of reassurance or approval
Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval
Pride of own personality and unwillingness to change, viewing any change as a threat
Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior of a sexual nature
Using somatic symptoms (of physical illness) to garner attention
A need to be the center of attention
Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification
Rapidly shifting emotional states that may appear superficial or exaggerated to others
Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are
Making rash decisions
Blaming personal failures or disappointments on others
Being easily influenced by others, especially those who treat them approvingly
Being overly dramatic and emotional

ipse

solus said:

Forgive my oversight, but of course you are right OC4MC: histrionic characteristics may include:
Failure to see their own personal situation realistically, instead dramatizing and exaggerating their difficulties
Exhibitionist behavior
Constant seeking of reassurance or approval
Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval
Pride of own personality and unwillingness to change, viewing any change as a threat
Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior of a sexual nature
Using somatic symptoms (of physical illness) to garner attention
A need to be the center of attention
Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification
Rapidly shifting emotional states that may appear superficial or exaggerated to others
Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are
Making rash decisions
Blaming personal failures or disappointments on others
Being easily influenced by others, especially those who treat them approvingly
Being overly dramatic and emotional

ipse

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solus said:

sorry, i will not be a party to your histrionic activities where i pass notes through a third party emissary...

and be careful with those stones you are throwing in your glass house as your contributions to the MO cause can easily be checked and weighed and might be found wanting...it is a public forum after all!!

ipse

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I fail to understand the direct questions I asked were never requested to be sent through anyone so I am not sure why you said that.

As for throwing stones I did not throw anything.
I made a request as to your history and your location and if you regularly OC. I see the location in your tag as here nc. I was not sure if that was no where land North Carolina or where that was.

As for me I am straight forward on my history feel free to check it all you want. Its simple I OC every day where and when I can and the rest of the time i conceal. My activism regarding 2A is in that action not just blabbering about on the internet regarding how bad others activism is. My post before I was trying to be polite and understand where your comments were coming from and if you walked as much as you talked. When i do have a problem with OC such as the thread I created the other night about a local restaurant I come here for advice as I know there are A LOT of guys on here with way more experience on handling these situations then me. I was trying to discern if you were one such individual with some very straight forward questions. I believe since you are not from this state and could careless about further MO 2A rights and just want to be holier then thou attitude on how lots of others work there activism by reading many of your other constantly negative posts you are NOT that guy Thanks for the confirmation good day and carry on Sir.

Renegadez said:

Solus Just a quick question or two

Do you live in Missouri?
And can you answer logunowner question?
It is the people like solus that burn my butt because they think they know all and have done little. And solus, if you post a list of things you have done publicly to bring Constitutional Carry to Missouri or anything other State I will be the first to say I am a butt.(P.S. address your post to BB62, otherwise I will not see it) I am curious are you an active OC'er in the area where you reside?

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Renegadez said:

I fail to understand the direct questions I asked were never requested to be sent through anyone so I am not sure why you said that.

As for throwing stones I did not throw anything.
I made a request as to your history and your location and if you regularly OC. I see the location in your tag as here nc. I was not sure if that was no where land North Carolina or where that was.

As for me I am straight forward on my history feel free to check it all you want. Its simple I OC every day where and when I can and the rest of the time i conceal. My activism regarding 2A is in that action not just blabbering about on the internet regarding how bad others activism is. My post before I was trying to be polite and understand where your comments were coming from and if you walked as much as you talked. When i do have a problem with OC such as the thread I created the other night about a local restaurant I come here for advice as I know there are A LOT of guys on here with way more experience on handling these situations then me. I was trying to discern if you were one such individual with some very straight forward questions. I believe since you are not from this state and could careless about further MO 2A rights and just want to be holier then thou attitude on how lots of others work there activism by reading many of your other constantly negative posts you are NOT that guy Thanks for the confirmation good day and carry on Sir.

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i'm sorry, the first section is your original post where you explicitly stated to send my responses to thru a third party.

a simple review of your posts shows, you're discussions seem to be contributing to the flow of the MO threads. Now the same option is available to you to seek anybody's previous postings on this public forum so you can adequately judge, for yourself, on the caliber of contribution(s) being espoused by any individual. you want my opinion of my contributions to the 'cause' ~ they are flipping outstandingly exemplary!! (modesty off :lol

that stated, if you truly believe as outlined by the OP in his first post where they proudly state they confronted the police of chief, while at lunch, in front of his subordinates, in a public venue is a viable methodology where the means justifies the end, then i guess you are absolutely right my criticism is unwarranted toward LO's cause and my critical comments were unjust.

however, while you are accusing me of only providing unjust criticism, your attention is directed to post 6 regarding a comment of hey why don't you do an FOIA to discern training activities as well as look at post 19 where BB apparently did. Hummmm whatcha think now mate?

your right mate, i am a holier than thou SOB who arbitrarily tramples on undeserving posters for the sake of doing so...

finally, FYI, this holier than thou SOB had made plans to join the walk in SL but due to circumstances beyond my control, had to forgo the sojourn and the activities therein.

ipse

At least you got the Chief's attention! Public officials are accountable and they are not above questions.

But it looks like the exchange was friendly at first and then took a big dive. That's too bad.

People are about evenly divided on politics. It helps to win people over, with not only common sense but also excellent manners. That way it's not just even - we build a majority.

Heh heh - I bet I'll get flamed if I use the word 'graciously'. But Ronald Reagan didn't grab the mic every speech and say f- you morons! Nowadays even people on the same side are squabbling endlessly.

Anyway, it was good to reach out and I hope something good comes of it. Let us know how it turns out!

logunowner said:

Lake Ozark not playing nice again...

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FYI:

"A requestor refuses to use our request form and sends numerous e-mails with requests for records. Can we require that they fill out our standard request form?

- Section 610.023.3, RSMo, requires that each request for access to public records is to be responded to as soon as possible; it does not specify a manner in which these requests must be submitted. Therefore, a public governmental body may ask that requestors fill out a form, but it can’t require them to do so."


http://ago.mo.gov/missouri-law/sunshine-law/sunshine-law-faqs

Solus nice deflection you did not answer a single question asked you except to say you had a plan and failed to execute it.....

Here is the response I received from Lake Ozark about my public records request. Back to the drawing board.


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Renegadez said:

Solus nice deflection you did not answer a single question asked you except to say you had a plan and failed to execute it.....

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sorry Renegadez, no deflection as your questions were answered but you seem to fail to accept the my answer(s) which is not my fault is it mate??

Let's review shall we...

1. your question asked, quote: I made a request as to your history... unquote. (tho not sure why you asked since you stated, quote: by reading many of your other constantly negative posts...unquote.)

and answered, quote: a simple review of your posts shows, you're discussions seem to be contributing to the flow of the MO threads. Now the same option is available to you to seek anybody's previous postings on this public forum so you can adequately judge, for yourself, on the caliber of contribution(s) being espoused by any individual. you want my opinion of my contributions to the 'cause' ~ they are flipping outstandingly exemplary!! (modesty off ) unquote.

2. your statement made, quote: ...just want to be holier then thou attitude ...unquote.

and answered, quote: if you truly believe as outlined by the OP in his first post where they proudly state they confronted the police of chief, while at lunch, in front of his subordinates, in a public venue is a viable methodology where the means justifies the end, then i guess you are absolutely right my criticism is unwarranted toward LO's cause and my critical comments were unjust. your right mate, i am a holier than thou SOB who arbitrarily tramples on undeserving posters for the sake of doing so. unquote.

3. your statement made, quote: ...could careless about further MO 2A rights...unquote.

and answered, quote: FYI, this holier than thou SOB had made plans to join the walk in SL but due to circumstances beyond my control, had to forgo the sojourn and the activities therein. unquote. now i normally do not stoop this this mentality...WERE YOU IN ATTENDANCE??

4. Note with interest no comment about my number 6 post in this thread!

5. Note with interest no comment regarding the OP's behaviour towards the Chief as outlined in the initial postings...

Renegadez, not sure what started you on your rampage towards me, but you should be more discerning about reaching your objectives w/o character assassination, full blown face to face, in public, in front of the subordinates, and acknowledge is unprofessional behaviour any way you slice it and if you or your friend the OP can't handle this type of criticism cuz you wear your feelings on your sleeves then you should probably put me on ignore also.

ipse

logunowner said:

Here is the response I received from Lake Ozark about my public records request. Back to the drawing board.


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from the looks of it, it seems they are trying to discourage you, and trying to worm out from under their obligations under law.

I'm sure BB62 can assist you with finding what you need in order to reply to them and let them know that yes, they are required under FOIA to provide you with requested documents/items, since your request is in regards to public documents, and or law.

again I would contact BB62 for his assistance, he seems to read the laws and understand them extremely well from what I have read.

also any decisions of the city in regards to A5 on the Missouri constitution should also be public record, as well as S.B. 656(?) and it's implications, in regards to police force training and the revision of city law.

after all how can you know the local laws, if they won't provide you with information regarding it?

Ezek said:

...again I would contact BB62 for his assistance, he seems to read the laws and understand them extremely well from what I have read...

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Thank you, and he already has!

It's my understanding that part of the records request submitted were authored by me, and other part was created by logunowner. Based on my knowledge, though incomplete, of what was submitted, the City Clerk makes reasonable points about both parts of the request - the tone could have been different though.

At least, in stark contrast to Springfield, Lake Ozark has responded promptly. Of course the final result is yet to be seen...

Ezek said:

from the looks of it, it seems they are trying to discourage you, and trying to worm out from under their obligations under law.

I'm sure BB62 can assist you with finding what you need in order to reply to them and let them know that yes, they are required under FOIA to provide you with requested documents/items, since your request is in regards to public documents, and or law.

again I would contact BB62 for his assistance, he seems to read the laws and understand them extremely well from what I have read.

also any decisions of the city in regards to A5 on the Missouri constitution should also be public record, as well as S.B. 656(?) and it's implications, in regards to police force training and the revision of city law.

after all how can you know the local laws, if they won't provide you with information regarding it?

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Yes, Ezek, there is no doubt in my mind they are stonewalling me. BB62 provided the outline for the first request.
It won'tl end here.

Ok folks, I received a response to my Request for Public Info, well after I hired a lawyer to help with the request. The bottom line is, Lake Ozark has not provide any documented training to it Police Chief or Police Officers on what changes were made to the Constitution of Missouri(Article 1 Section 23) or the effect of SB6565 has had on Lake Ozark's ban on open carry.
My lawyer said that we are done unless we have something to show that they have provided something and then we would be able to sue.
No one said this would be easy.....

Are there any parks in Lake Ozark? Have an OC picnic and I guarantee there will be some training. If you want help, just ask.

forgive me for my ignorance, but can anyone tell me of case law from a court with jurisdiction over MO that states that the mere fact of open carrying cannot be grounds for a "Disorderly Conduct" charge? Reading Lake Ozark's drivel, i see that they may try to weasel out a DC charge because someone was scared at the sight of a gun, NOT for the mere fact of carrying

Am I dreaming but doesn't a law cover this? It was passed in the last few years or was a amendment to a bill that got dropped. Can't remember but I guarantee that the Lake Ozark PD have no clue.