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Thread: WMU- yea or nea?

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    WMU- yea or nea?

    Ok, so I've done the reading and searching and honestly, I'm as fracking confused as ever. I know that, supposedly, MSU, Wayne State and U of M are somehow exempt from MI gun laws (STILL dont get how that works). But nothing is mentioned about Western Michigan University and yet they have this policy. I've got a few questions about it.

    1. Can this policy really be legally enforced?

    2. Does it apply to the Asylum Lake preserve area?

    3. If it can't be enforced legally, and DOES apply to the preserve area, do I need my CPL to carry there when I take my dog out there?
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Ok, so I've done the reading and searching and honestly, I'm as fracking confused as ever. I know that, supposedly, MSU, Wayne State and U of M are somehow exempt from MI gun laws (STILL dont get how that works). But nothing is mentioned about Western Michigan University and yet they have this policy. I've got a few questions about it.

    1. Can this policy really be legally enforced?

    2. Does it apply to the Asylum Lake preserve area?

    3. If it can't be enforced legally, and DOES apply to the preserve area, do I need my CPL to carry there when I take my dog out there?
    No person shall possess on University property any firearms or other dangerous weapons with the exception of police officers, transfer agents licensed to carry weapons and persons using any such weapons for class instruction when authorized by the dean of the appropriate college.
    Any student, faculty member or other university employee violating this rule shall be subject to suspension or dismissal. Any person violating this rule will be subject to criminal prosecution.

    If you are one of those in Bold above you are subject to their policy. All others it seems would be subject to state law.

    This policy would include ALL WMU property.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    The OP seems to be aware of the university policy, I would gather that he is trying to determine whether or not the policy itself has a legal basis, and thus enforceable. Sorry but I can't help, but I think his question is a legitimate one.
    Last edited by OC4me; 04-06-2015 at 09:26 AM.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    The OP seems to be aware of the university policy, I would gather that he is trying to determine whether or not the policy itself has a legal basis, and thus enforceable. Sorry but I can't help, but I think his question is a legitimate one.
    And I answered him. YES they can have a policy that is enforceable on students and staff. It has no effect on others, so they can carry as allowed by state law.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    No person shall possess on University property any firearms or other dangerous weapons with the exception of police officers, transfer agents licensed to carry weapons and persons using any such weapons for class instruction when authorized by the dean of the appropriate college.
    Any student, faculty member or other university employee violating this rule shall be subject to suspension or dismissal. Any person violating this rule will be subject to criminal prosecution.
    Preemption says that Local ordinances cannot be more restrictive than state law...

    However, the Community College Act of 1966 is a STATE law, and it states the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Community College Act of 1966, Section 389.103
    Community college as corporate entity.
    Sec. 103.
    (1)
    A community college district is a body corporate and may sue and be sued, and may take,
    condemn, use, hold, sell, lease, and convey real property without restriction as to location and personal
    property including property received by gift, devise, or bequest, as the interest of the community college
    district may require. A community college district is presumed to have been legally organized if it has
    exercised the franchises and privileges of a community college district for a period of at least 2 years; and
    such a community college district and its trustees are entitled to all rights, privileges, and immunities, and are
    subject to all duties and liabilities conferred upon community college districts by law.
    (2)
    In addition to the powers expressly stated in this act, a community college district and its board of
    trustees may exercise a power implied by or incident to any of its powers expressly stated in this act and,
    except as otherwise provided by law, may exercise a power incidental or appropriate to the performance of
    any function related to operation of the community college district in the interests of educational and other
    programs and services offered by the community college district.
    ...I don't think there's legal precedent for this, but its enough to make me uncomfortable around colleges. I supposed they'd have to argue that it was related to the interests of 'educational or other programs'...
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 04-10-2015 at 11:35 AM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    See, I read that very thing a while back, and to me it makes it sound very similar in end result to the incorporation of towns and cities, and thusly just another local unit of government and thereby preempted from enforcing such a policy.

    And nowhere in Article 8, sub sec 5 OR 6 does it say that universities and other institutions of higher learning get to make their own laws beyond that of the State.
    Last edited by DeSchaine; 04-11-2015 at 12:22 AM.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Preemption says that Local ordinances cannot be more restrictive than state law...

    However, the Community College Act of 1966 is a STATE law, and it states the following:



    ...I don't think there's legal precedent for this, but its enough to make me uncomfortable around colleges. I supposed they'd have to argue that it was related to the interests of 'educational or other programs'...
    Any person violating this rule will be subject to criminal prosecution.
    This I think is standard language in policies, etc. But if a student or staff member was found to have a weapon in a dorm or classroom, then a charge could be made and that would be under state law.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  8. #8
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    ...I don't think there's legal precedent for this, but its enough to make me uncomfortable around colleges. I supposed they'd have to argue that it was related to the interests of 'educational or other programs'...
    But in addition, they would also have to argue that rule or regulation gets around that part "except as otherwise provided by law".

    It can rightfully be argued that firearms possession is very well "provided by law" within the MCL.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    And you though it was GM, Ford and Chrysler

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Ok, so I've done the reading and searching and honestly, I'm as fracking confused as ever. I know that, supposedly, MSU, Wayne State and U of M are somehow exempt from MI gun laws (STILL dont get how that works). But nothing is mentioned about Western Michigan University and yet they have this policy. I've got a few questions about it.

    1. Can this policy really be legally enforced?

    2. Does it apply to the Asylum Lake preserve area?

    3. If it can't be enforced legally, and DOES apply to the preserve area, do I need my CPL to carry there when I take my dog out there?
    Colleges and Universities are not local units of government. In addition, the named universities (The Big Three) are constitutional corporations and have powers far beyond those of mortal colleges. While the exact relationship between the Big Three and the state government varies depending upon the subject matter and other factors, it is not correct to say that they are exempt from state firearms law. But then there is no state law that says you have the right to carry anywhere you wish. Is there?

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